mrelwood Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I had to scroll up to re-read the topic title about five times, ”which wheel is he talking about again?” Quote assumption that wattage directly correlates to amperage It doesn’t. The announced motor wattage rating tells us only how much power it can handle for an extended perioid of time. A 5000W motor can have only better cooling capabilities than a 500W one, but they can be otherwise identical. The motor is a passive element, in that it doesn’t decide how much current to draw. Only the mainboard decides how much of the battery power is passed on to the motor. Everything that is different in a new wheel feels strange and wrong at first. First impressions are cool to share, but it is crucial to know where the reviewer is coming from. Luckily you explained it in sufficient detail. The delivery of electrical power to the MCM5 motor is not capped, delayed or orherwise hindered. The difference you feel really is all related to just physical dimensions. I do know that it can feel like a different size wheel indeed powers the motor very differently, but consider this: The only thing a wheel can do is spin the tire. Nothing else. As long as the pedals stay horizontal, the wheel has succeeded in putting all the required power to the motor to keep the entity balanced, and there is nothing else the motor or the wheel can do. The difference in behaviour is then down to the physical dimensions of the tire, and height and size of the pedals. If you had learned to ride on any 16” wheel (like I think most people do), your riding technique would be very different, and the MCM5 would probably feel like a tiny toy for the first 200 miles. Or more. I think @Mike Sacristan mentioned that the MSX clicked with him after a 1000 miles. When I got my MSX, I had 9000km on the 16S. Of course the MSX felt like it doesn’t accelerate, brake or turn. After 6000km the MSX is waiting for repairs, and I’m back on the 16S. Snappier and more nimble, yes, but a lousy and tiresome wheel for travelling compared to the MSX, despite my 16S being upgraded to a 2.5” tire. Your review will be very different after a week. Even moreso after a month. Or a year, or a 1000 miles. Like you learned a technique with the Mten, you’ll learn a new one for the MCM5, or any other wheel. Like anyone with a new wheel, first or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: I had to scroll up to re-read the topic title about five times, ”which wheel is he talking about again?” It doesn’t. The announced motor wattage rating tells us only how much power it can handle for an extended perioid of time. A 5000W motor can have only better cooling capabilities than a 500W one, but they can be otherwise identical. The motor is a passive element, in that it doesn’t decide how much current to draw. Only the mainboard decides how much of the battery power is passed on to the motor. Everything that is different in a new wheel feels strange and wrong at first. First impressions are cool to share, but it is crucial to know where the reviewer is coming from. Luckily you explained it in sufficient detail. The delivery of electrical power to the MCM5 motor is not capped, delayed or orherwise hindered. The difference you feel really is all related to just physical dimensions. I do know that it can feel like a different size wheel indeed powers the motor very differently, but consider this: The only thing a wheel can do is spin the tire. Nothing else. As long as the pedals stay horizontal, the wheel has succeeded in putting all the required power to the motor to keep the entity balanced, and there is nothing else the motor or the wheel can do. The difference in behaviour is then down to the physical dimensions of the tire, and height and size of the pedals. If you had learned to ride on any 16” wheel (like I think most people do), your riding technique would be very different, and the MCM5 would probably feel like a tiny toy for the first 200 miles. Or more. I think @Mike Sacristan mentioned that the MSX clicked with him after a 1000 miles. When I got my MSX, I had 9000km on the 16S. Of course the MSX felt like it doesn’t accelerate, brake or turn. After 6000km the MSX is waiting for repairs, and I’m back on the 16S. Snappier and more nimble, yes, but a lousy and tiresome wheel for travelling compared to the MSX, despite my 16S being upgraded to a 2.5” tire. Your review will be very different after a week. Even moreso after a month. Or a year, or a 1000 miles. Like you learned a technique with the Mten, you’ll learn a new one for the MCM5, or any other wheel. Like anyone with a new wheel, first or not. I’m at 450 miles with the MCM5, and loving it now 😍. It’s still a laggy tank compared to the mten3, but now I know where it excels at: 15+ mph carving. The tire is also very cushioned, letting me confidently go 15 mph on imperfect roads. I can even roll around on poorly maintained cobblestone! However, it is absolutely terrible for sidewalks or crowded places due to the wide turn radius and thin tire. Also, for small feet, an asymmetrical stance is a must on the MCM5. I easily cut my braking distance in half due to being able to flip the rear foot so that it’s only making contact to the back edge. I call that riding the knife edge. @houseofjobtipped me to his technique - I’ll have to draw a diagram. I’ve forgotten how to ride the mten3 as aggressively as I used to, and have relegated the mten3 as a “no-gear no-helmet” 8mph errand wheel. As for the motor being tuned differently: when I say motor, I also mean the controller. Same as in when we talk about combustion engines, we include the computer which controls the precise fuel air ratio and spark timing. Edited July 30, 2019 by chrisjunlee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 And here I am thinking how nice it would be to have an MCM5 and Mten3. I now have 4338km on my MSX. It turns and navigates very easily at low speeds. A little too easily actually so I have to hold back a bit (WOW I AM SO STROOOONG!!!). At around 35kmh I have to motorcycle lean but that's my own fault as I have the PSI at 20 or slightly below. I prefer to ride with bent legs which makes it a bit harder to manipulate the wheel. The body adjusts though. When I ride my Ninebot One E+ I have to readjust and not move my body as much. It's all over the place and it feels like i'm sliding around on ice. KS18XL feels rather nimble compared to the MSX. Inmotion V10 even more so to the point of feeling wobbly and floppy. I was out cruising with some friends and it took me half the ride to get the V10 to feel "safe". It was a matter of toning down my movements a bit and being more aware of where the wheel was between my legs (the MSX side pads make sure you know where it is at all times). It would be interesting to try an MCM5 some day. I'll see if I can find a rider in Stockholm who wants to cruise and we can wheel swap during the ride. Anyway what i'm saying is that different wheels feel different. Many times when i'm riding the MSX I say "I wish this wheel felt more like the Ninebot One E+", and then I hit a bump and the MSX just eats it up and then I do 50kmh and the MSX just flies. Then I ride the Ninebot and hit 28kmh and it gets really exciting all of a sudden and I think to myself "okay now I know why this doesn't do 50kmh". Like the time I was riding a friend's 16S at 35kmh the whole cruise and every 10 seconds I was like "Wow, that was a close call. Oops that was a close call". It felt like a deathtrap at those speeds. When it comes to wheels I try to see any shortcomings as my own. It's much easier for me to change myself than it is for me to change the wheel. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said: It's much easier for me to change myself than it is for me to change the wheel. Not when you have 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: Not when you have LMAO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greentung Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I agree with Chris. While I commute with the MCM5 I don't think it handles as well at low speed as the mten3. I pick up my toddler daughter from her daycare on the mten3 a handful of times. I got a hip carrier with a cushion she sits on. She wears a helmet. I feel comfortable carrying her on the mten3. Not very comfortable on the Z10. I won't even attempt carrying a toddler on the MCM5. At least not without full protection. I have pushed her stroller around the neighborhood on the MCM5 so it is at least good for that. Practical uses for euc is how we advance this hobby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negreanu George Ovidiu Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Can anyone explain me how mcm5 performs on mountain trail vs v5f or mten3?i want to know the off-road performances of mcm5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan acoustic-unicyclist Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 The mten3 works fantastically offroad. It has so much torque that you can quite literally climb anything. It goes over bumps, rocks, roots... you name it. One issue is that because of its small size, there aren't vents or openings for dust to escape. As a result, if you offroad your mten3, the inside of the case will collect dust and grass. This is easily removed with compressed air I LOVE LOVE LOVE this wheel. Especially for offoad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasD Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said: The mten3 works fantastically offroad. It has so much torque that you can quite literally climb anything. It goes over bumps, rocks, roots... you name it. One issue is that because of its small size, there aren't vents or openings for dust to escape. As a result, if you offroad your mten3, the inside of the case will collect dust and grass. This is easily removed with compressed air I LOVE LOVE LOVE this wheel. Especially for offoad Offroad is OK with Mten3, but if I go over few roots I will fall down from the pedals It mostly small tyre, power is more than enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan acoustic-unicyclist Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, LucasD said: Offroad is OK with Mten3, but if I go over few roots I will fall down from the pedals It mostly small tyre, power is more than enough... Squeeze tighter, m8. I have ridden the pants off this wheel and cannot faceplant yet. (but I did get my foot stuck under a raised root HAHA) the wheel pirouettes before crashing, but the rider comes out unscathed. The tire tread is nice and square for balance but there are a surprising number of options in the 10" x 3" size 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said: Squeeze tighter, m8. I have ridden the pants off this wheel and cannot faceplant yet. (but I did get my foot stuck under a raised root HAHA) the wheel pirouettes before crashing, but the rider comes out unscathed. The tire tread is nice and square for balance but there are a surprising number of options in the 10" x 3" size The mten3 is an amazingly capable wheel. I was able to run circles around my onewheel friends offroading at half the effort, and I think I've only tapped into 10% of its potential. People dismiss the mten3 simply because there's larger wheels available, unfairly putting it into the toy/tricks category. The first two weeks when it was the only wheel I had, I commuted up to 20mph, took on potholes, off-roaded, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan acoustic-unicyclist Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said: The mten3 is an amazingly capable wheel. I was able to run circles around my onewheel friends offroading at half the effort, and I think I've only tapped into 10% of its potential. People dismiss the mten3 simply because there's larger wheels available, unfairly putting it into the toy/tricks category. The first two weeks when it was the only wheel I had, I commuted up to 20mph, took on potholes, off-roaded, etc. I have owned many wheels and ridden about 10 different models. The mten3 is my FAVORITE wheel because it is so inconspicuous. I had originally purchased it as a toy, thinking it'd be something for the parking lot. But it is so much more. This is a viable commuter wheel (needs some larger pedals for my American feet), while also being PERFECT for stunting. It weighs less than half of its bigboii cousins at only 22lbs (<10kg). Meaning you can very easily jump insanely high on this wheel. It goes right where you want it to and carves like a beast. I now reccomend this wheel as an excellent beginner wheel (pretty cheap) and as a backup/"fun" wheel. Because it really can do it all. My KingSong wheels in the 14" and 16" sizes could not roll over the EXACT SAME obstacles that the mten3 tramples over with nothing more than a grunt and "grr" from the motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasD Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 59 minutes ago, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said: Squeeze tighter, m8. I have ridden the pants off this wheel and cannot faceplant yet. (but I did get my foot stuck under a raised root HAHA) the wheel pirouettes before crashing, but the rider comes out unscathed. The tire tread is nice and square for balance but there are a surprising number of options in the 10" x 3" size I don't squeeze the shell at all. Maybe there is a difference in offroad , but when I try riding squeezing on ok ground I lose some control... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 == Day 🦆 - Mon, 8/5/2019 == The MCM5's been collecting dust since I've been putting on miles on the 16X. So brushed off the dust and rode it to work today. It felt so light, responsive, zippy, and nimble. I couldn't stop grinning the entire ride. The MCM5 sparks joy. What a difference it makes having spent time on a clunkier-than-a-walmart-kids-bicycle Kingsong 16X. Which made me think: is it really just a mental frame of reference comparison? Or, is it because I've physically built up stronger muscles from riding the 16X? Which led me to think: In the same way a strength training regime of heavy barbell squats can make everyday tasks feel effortless, perhaps there's exercises that can enhance our EUC experience? What do you think @houseofjob, @Marty Backe? On a different note: I've decided to keep the MCM5, as a loaner/beater wheel so I can spread this joy. In that regard, I have a coworker learning on it after work today . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I sold my MCM5 the day before receiving the KS16X. It had less than 30 miles on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) On 8/1/2019 at 2:21 PM, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said: Squeeze tighter, m8. I have ridden the pants off this wheel and cannot faceplant yet. Careful, I've definitely hit the overpower alarm when I used to go home to Jersey every other weekend with my since sold MTen3. On 8/1/2019 at 2:57 PM, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said: It weighs less than half of its bigboii cousins at only 22lbs (<10kg). Meaning you can very easily jump insanely high on this wheel. It goes right where you want it to and carves like a beast. Careful on jumps there. The Russians have guys who rode their MTen3 for thousands of miles and got axle breakage (not sure if they jumped on theirs). 1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said: What do you think @houseofjob, @Marty Backe? If you're using strength IMHO, you're not efficiently pressing the wheel into acceleration. It's really shouldn't be actual muscle pressing the wheel, it should be your gradually deployed bodyweight, via angling the wheel in a mixed close-to-45-degree from both the forward (acceleration) and perpendicular (stability/support to be able to fully leverage your bodyweight) vectors. Edited August 5, 2019 by houseofjob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan acoustic-unicyclist Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 18 hours ago, houseofjob said: Careful, I've definitely hit the overpower alarm when I used to go home to Jersey every other weekend with my since sold MTen3. Careful on jumps there. The Russians have guys who rode their MTen3 for thousands of miles and got axle breakage (not sure if they jumped on theirs). If you're using strength IMHO, you're not efficiently pressing the wheel into acceleration. It's really shouldn't be actual muscle pressing the wheel, it should be your gradually deployed bodyweight, via angling the wheel in a mixed close-to-45-degree from both the forward (acceleration) and perpendicular (stability/support to be able to fully leverage your bodyweight) vectors. @houseofjob Thanks for the insight! Can you link any long-distance mten3 discussion? Not looking to tour on this wheel, but I'd love to hear from people who have. I figured the axle is a weak point, but it's been sturdy thus far.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 23 minutes ago, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said: @houseofjob Thanks for the insight! Can you link any long-distance mten3 discussion? Not looking to tour on this wheel, but I'd love to hear from people who have. I figured the axle is a weak point, but it's been sturdy thus far.... Ah, it was the French, not Russian (I mixed this up since both have rabid EUC bases!): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esso Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Does anyone commute on public trans with their MCM5? How does the curvy body shape work wedged between your legs while sitting in a bus or train? Does it slip around or can you secure it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 On 7/31/2019 at 3:09 PM, greentung said: I agree with Chris. While I commute with the MCM5 I don't think it handles as well at low speed as the mten3. I pick up my toddler daughter from her daycare on the mten3 a handful of times. I got a hip carrier with a cushion she sits on. She wears a helmet. I feel comfortable carrying her on the mten3. Not very comfortable on the Z10. I won't even attempt carrying a toddler on the MCM5. At least not without full protection. I have pushed her stroller around the neighborhood on the MCM5 so it is at least good for that. Practical uses for euc is how we advance this hobby. If the coolest dad award exists, it would go to you ⭐ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Esso said: How does the curvy body shape work wedged between your legs while sitting in a bus or train? Does it slip around or can you secure it? That was the biggest annoyance for me. The shape. The contact surface is so small that it's very hard to lean it against something. And there is no soft padding either to help it stay put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Esso said: Does anyone commute on public trans with their MCM5? How does the curvy body shape work wedged between your legs while sitting in a bus or train? Does it slip around or can you secure it? I wouldn't wedge the mten3 vertically on the wheel. It's more comfortable to lay it on the dorsal side - takes less effort to support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: That was the biggest annoyance for me. The shape. The contact surface is so small that it's very hard to lean it against something. And there is no soft padding either to help it stay put. FWIW, the mten3 supports itself like this: And yes, my coworkers looked at me bewildered as I took that photo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Eh, we are talking about the MCM5 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: Eh, we are talking about the MCM5 .... TIL I'm blind and illiterate AF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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