US-China Trade War

[Kens]

2 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 Let me break it down for you.

 China is and has continuously for the last 40 years screwing us over on trade. It has been remarkably unbalanced and favoriting them significantly.  There are certain politicians both Democrat and Republican in our country with certain ideologies that are fine with that because they believe the United States is too powerful to begin with and they believe this country needs to be put in its place.  Trump disagrees and is finally standing up to the Chinese communist and demanding an equal playing field.  China is not used to this because they have always gotten over on every president we’ve ever had so they believe by waiting it out they could win this especially if a large enough percentage of our citizens complain about it.  Our country is not asking for an advantage over China or any other trade partners like Canada, Mexico or the European Union.  What we are asking for is equality.  That seems to be unreasonable to certain people. Well it isn’t to me. I’m willing to wait this out regardless of the consequences.  If need be we can cut off trade 100% with China if they don’t want complete equality.  If that happens I assure you they will pay a much higher price than us. 

Thank you. Finally we can move forward..

Basically China is a bad trading partners yes? And let's say the outcome will be like what you said "cut off trade 100% with China".

Will it bring back jobs to the US?

Will it stop China's substitute from stealing intellectual properties? (I'm not saying it's ok. It's NOT OK. Only the one that can do something about this is the one that hold intellectual properties regardless whether we partner with China or other countries).

I said this tariff is unnecessary because it will no solve those problem whatever China will give us better deal or cut them off 100%.

[Patton250]

2 minutes ago, Kens said:

Thank you. Finally we can move forward..

Basically China is a bad trading partners yes? And let's say the outcome will be like what you said "cut off trade 100% with China".

Will it bring back jobs to the US?

Will it stop China's substitute from stealing intellectual properties? (I'm not saying it's ok. It's NOT OK. Only the one that can do something about this is the one that hold intellectual properties regardless whether we partner with China or other countries).

I said this tariff is unnecessary because it will no solve those problem whatever China will give us better deal or cut them off 100%.

 What else would you suggest to show them we mean business besides tariffs?  We are already bringing more jobs back to the United States. The fact that we have discontinued manufacturing most things that we use is pretty stupid in my opinion.  Americans make the best of everything in the world with the exception of guns and cars because the Germans do that.  :-)

[Kens]

31 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 What else would you suggest to show them we mean business besides tariffs?

So basically this tariff is for the US flex it's muscle to China. It's like bullying but your parent have to take time off from work (takes temporary monetary hit) to go to the principal office..

Quote

 We are already bringing more jobs back to the United States.

Before tariff or after tariff? 

Quote

The fact that we have discontinued manufacturing most things that we use is pretty stupid in my opinion.  Americans make the best of everything in the world with the exception of guns and cars because the Germans do that.  :-)

:-)

Edited September 5, 2019 by Kens

[Patton250]

5 minutes ago, Kens said:

So basically this tariff is for the US flex it's muscle to China. It's like bullying but your parent have to take time off from work (takes temporary monetary hit) to go to the principal office..

Before tariff or after tariff? 

:-)

  Those people of certain political persuasions I mentioned before would call it flexing our muscles but I would call it negotiating for better terms. It’s a smart thing to do. It really pisses me off that none of our other presidents have ever done this. 

We were definitely bringing jobs back before the tariffs.  Now whether or not tariffs have a negative affect on the economy remains to be seen. One thing is for sure the people that absolutely hate Trump no matter what will say it does just to make him look bad. Of course some of those people would like to see our country fail just to make him look bad.  So let’s just discount what those people have to say about it.  I can explain this entire situation to a four-year-old and they would understand that it’s reasonable to expect or demand things to be fair.  That’s all the president is asking for. An equal playing field. For now the Chinese are saying absolutely not and go pound sand. They want the advantage because they’ve always had it. Well then eat tariffs for now.  I suspect the European Union is next. 

[Kens]

50 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

We were definitely bringing jobs back before the tariffs.

Are everybody agree with this? Because if it is then something already bringing back jobs and tariff maybe only additive (unnecessary) to whatever causing it first before tariff.

50 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

[...] One thing is for sure the people that absolutely hate Trump no matter what will say it does just to make him look bad. Of course some of those people would like to see our country fail just to make him look bad.  So let’s just discount what those people have to say about it.  I can explain this entire situation to a four-year-old and they would understand that it’s reasonable to expect or demand things to be fair.  That’s all the president is asking for. An equal playing field. For now the Chinese are saying absolutely not and go pound sand. They want the advantage because they’ve always had it. Well then eat tariffs for now.  

I want to address this. I agree with you about Trump's haters. There's a lot of people out there that just blatantly hate Trump just because he is Trump. Here what I will say to them: He is our president whether you like it or not. It's a fact so stop moaning and get over it. If you see all my post above, I never address Trump as a person. Only questioning his policy (in this case tariff). I hope everybody also do that. Stop seeing Trump (whether defending him or attacking him) and start seeing our self as a country. Take him out from the equation as much as possible and maybe all of us can see things much clearer.

I believe none of us want to see our country to fail because we all live in it (unless you are not US citizen) and I don't believe this tariff will destroy the United States (just unnecessary).

50 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I suspect the European Union is next. 

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Kens said:

There's a lot of people out there that just blatantly hate Trump just because he is Trump. Here what I will say to them: He is our president whether you like it or not.

I feel a strange sense of deja Vu because haters hating Obama feels like the same unreasonable haters of Trump, but of course they are not. However, it seems apparent that while a minority of grumblers whined about Obama, a majority of screeching haters advocate violence against Trump. Anytime a newspaper article uses a question as a title, you just know it's mostly conjecture followed by a call to action/arms.

I personally only have one beef with Trump (as I would with Clinton, if she had been elected), and it's that any transportation bill almost entirely devoted to cars is a bill I must be against.

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Kens said:

Are everybody agree with this? Because if it is then something already bringing back jobs and tariff maybe only additive (unnecessary) to whatever causing it first before tariff.

I want to address this. I agree with you about Trump's haters. There's a lot of people out there that just blatantly hate Trump just because he is Trump. Here what I will say to them: He is our president whether you like it or not. It's a fact so stop moaning and get over it. If you see all my post above, I never address Trump as a person. Only questioning his policy (in this case tariff). I hope everybody also do that. Stop seeing Trump (whether defending him or attacking him) and start seeing our self as a country. Take him out from the equation as much as possible and maybe all of us can see things much clearer.

I believe none of us want to see our country to fail because we all live in it (unless you are not US citizen) and I don't believe this tariff will destroy the United States (just unnecessary).

 Trump is a nationalist. Globalists hate him.  Nationalist seems to be a nasty word this year. I don’t know why. I’m a nationalist.  I believe in my country first. I don’t blame a Frenchman if he believes in his country first. Or a Japanese person believing their country should be first.  So the tariffs are nothing more than a US president standing up for his country first. That’s all it is. The problem is the world is not used to seeing that.  They are used to seeing, at least our last president running around the planet apologizing for the United States.  You won’t see this president doing that and it tends to piss off the global community.  Don’t worry about the tariffs. It will all work out in the end. 

[dmethvin]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Don’t worry about the tariffs. It will all work out in the end. 

Tariffs are just one more way for the government to pick winners and losers. When we put tariffs on Chinese goods, they put tariffs on our goods. Ask farmers how they feel about tariffs, which have cost them more than $30 billion in lost exports. Import tariffs are paid by all of us in the form of increased prices. Normally we'd benefit by depressed prices on farm goods to compensate for that, but the US government has already spent $25 billion in tax dollars trying to give relief to farmers and more is on the way. So woo hoo, no American is really losing in the near term because the government is putting us further into debt to pay the would-be losers. We'll let future generations deal with this, assuming they live through climate change.

[Patton250]

23 minutes ago, dmethvin said:

Tariffs are just one more way for the government to pick winners and losers. When we put tariffs on Chinese goods, they put tariffs on our goods. Ask farmers how they feel about tariffs, which have cost them more than $30 billion in lost exports. Import tariffs are paid by all of us in the form of increased prices. Normally we'd benefit by depressed prices on farm goods to compensate for that, but the US government has already spent $25 billion in tax dollars trying to give relief to farmers and more is on the way. So woo hoo, no American is really losing in the near term because the government is putting us further into debt to pay the would-be losers. We'll let future generations deal with this, assuming they live through climate change.

Yeah well you lost me on climate change. So bye

[LanghamP]

13 hours ago, dmethvin said:

Tariffs are just one more way for the government to pick winners and losers. When we put tariffs on Chinese goods, they put tariffs on our goods. Ask farmers how they feel about tariffs, which have cost them more than $30 billion in lost exports

Farmers can get government-sponsored crop insurance if they use RoundUp ready crop, but not if they use traditional seeds. However, farmers are not allowed to keep RoundUp ready seeds for next season as there are huge penalities for doing so. Essentially, all farmers have become Monsanto chemical employees, because the risk of foregoing crop insurance is too great.

Are tarifs a regressive tax? A gas tax is a regressive tax because while everyone puts approximately 12-15 thousand miles on their vehicle each year, the tax as a proportion of income is greater for lower income. However, with tarifs people who make more spend more...so perhaps tarifs hit higher earners harder than lower earners (my opinion).

Lower prices induces demand, while higher prices reduces demand, everyone knows that, but what's often missed is the concept of luxury/sin tax, whereby the government heavily taxes items deemed absurd. Society doesn't want you drinking or smoking, or buying cars that get 8 miles to the gallon, or anything extravagant when a generic substitute would work.

Tarifs work somewhat the same; there's only two categories of imported goods; essential goods that are exempt, and everything else. It's up to lobbyist to get companies off the "everything else" to "essential goods", while keeping their smaller competitors in the everything else category.

For example, bicycles and bicycle parts are now heavily tariffed while automotive parts are deemed essential. Small batteries are taxed while big batteries are exempted, raw synthetic rubber isn't taxed yet finished rubber goods are, metal ingots aren't taxed but cast metal goods are. In short, businesses that already have the manufacturing capability to process raw material won't be taxed while those that depend on Chinese suppliers will be (US auto manufacturers for example). Is this good?

Personally, after looking at the exemption list, everything feels so random, like a shotgun, that I'm thinking this is a naked money grab by the government. What is a tarrif other than an enormous tax? And I think that's a good thing; it reduces US consumption while also reducing personal and government debt.

You don't need another item from Amazon on your credit card, and the government doesn't need to issue another US bond.