Search for a fix for my dead Z10 is on!

[Hsiang]

 

[Hsiang]

I didn't want to get more into the specifics into the video but the short of it is; the replacement control board didn't do it and the z10 still doesn't work.

The longer version:

So I noticed that something was off probably a week before the breakdown on a group ride, the wheel was low on battery and during ride I felt some micro cutouts, almost like the wheel having hicups, but very very slight and likely unnoticeable unless you ride the wheel every day like me.

I seen videos of wheel behavior when the control board was burned, the wheel spazing out rapidly going foward and back, this lasted about 20 seconds and persisted after turning it on 2 or 3 time and after that the wheel stopped responding.

The control wiring connection on the board bears the classic burn pattern so both I and Jason thought that this was the issue. I received the board and replaced it but when I turn it on, the wheel shuttering for just a bit (will post in the next video) and then nothing. I opened the wheel back up and the newly installed boards now bears the same burn pattern as the old board. I literally though I put the old board in by mistake, but I did not, also I photographed the new boards before it went in, and it was fine. So my Z10 burned the new control board inside of about 10 seconds and 3 power on.

Nothing changed and the z10 still wouldn't turn on, Jason think the control wiring might be the issue. Some one suggested taking measurement at the 3 control wires, they all measure zero, not really sure what that means. So that's where things stand currently, waiting to hear back from Jason on next steps.

[ir_fuel]

So the burned out control board is a symptom, not the cause ...

That sucks :/ 

[Hsiang]

4 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

So the burned out control board is a symptom, not the cause ...

That sucks :/ 

It really does; not to mention, any further experimentation would burn more control boards if the cause wasn't correctly identified.

I went through the forum and did not find anything similar, at this point I can only hope that Jason at Ewheel had encountered something similar with the repairs of othe faulty Z10s.

[who_the]

I am shipping my Z10 board back to Jason for replacement after it failed some time ago. I hope I won't be in the same boat as you after I replace it.

[Fidgety Spinner]

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Hsiang said:

I didn't want to get more into the specifics into the video but the short of it is; the replacement control board didn't do it and the z10 still doesn't work.

Man, that must suck.  On a side note, I really appreciate your videos and just wanted to say you almost convinced me to get the Z10 except my ass was just too out of shape to keep picking it up after dropping it while learning.

Hope you're up and rolling again on the Z soon.

[Planemo]

That's interesting and weird for sure. I was always under the impression that the failure you had (which is the same one I have seen occur/reported previously) was always resolved with a new power board. This is the first time I have read that something else is actually causing the issue.

Also, I did ask on your youtube vid if you would be happy to provide the serial number of your wheel. It would be interesting to know the build date

 

[chrisjunlee]

Hmm. Wonder if there’s a something touching the board within the case, causing a short. Just odd that the controller which is designed for current, would itself get fried.

[Planemo]

The layout and wiring of the Z is pretty much impeccable so I doubt if it's a rogue wire touching somewhere but as you say its worth checking.

It's the very fact that the power board handles the current that makes it the prime target for any overheating issues as has happened here. The fact that the burned area is the same as we have seen several times before and revolves around (I believe) the hall sensor resistors is no surprise. The only odd thing is that a new board (which Ninebot updated with different hall resistors) has gone the same way rather than fix the problem. I am aware of several wheels which were cured with the newer board, this is the first instance I have heard of where it hasn't.

Incidentally....are we sure that a 'new version' board was fitted....?

Edit: Further, I haven't actually been able to confirm whether the 'newer' boards did in fact have any component changes. I haven't been able to get any hi-res pics of both to compare the part numbers. The sensors certainly look the same on all the boards I have seen but whether they are rated differently I don't know. What I do know is that people who have fitted newer boards don't get further problems (until now...)

[Hsiang]

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

The layout and wiring of the Z is pretty much impeccable so I doubt if it's a rogue wire touching somewhere but as you say its worth checking.

It's the very fact that the power board handles the current that makes it the prime target for any overheating issues as has happened here. The fact that the burned area is the same as we have seen several times before and revolves around (I believe) the hall sensor resistors is no surprise. The only odd thing is that a new board (which Ninebot updated with different hall resistors) has gone the same way rather than fix the problem. I am aware of several wheels which were cured with the newer board, this is the first instance I have heard of where it hasn't.

Incidentally....are we sure that a 'new version' board was fitted....?

Edit: Further, I haven't actually been able to confirm whether the 'newer' boards did in fact have any component changes. I haven't been able to get any hi-res pics of both to compare the part numbers. The sensors certainly look the same on all the boards I have seen but whether they are rated differently I don't know. What I do know is that people who have fitted newer boards don't get further problems (until now...)

I have heard mentioning of a new board in several threads but is this confirmed news?? Also, the old board survived 1000 miles where in the new boards less than a minute, so I assume that Jason is right in thinking that there are other issues at hand. I did order an additional control board from Ali as a backup and I can post a photo of it but it looks identical to my old board so not sure if that'll tell us anything.

[US69]

20 hours ago, Hsiang said:

didn't want to get more into the specifics into the video but the short of it is; the replacement control board didn't do it and the z10 still doesn't work.

The longer version:

So I noticed that something was off probably a week before the breakdown on a group ride, the wheel was low on battery and during ride I felt some micro cutouts, almost like the wheel having hicups, but very very slight and likely unnoticeable unless you ride the wheel every day like me.

I seen videos of wheel behavior when the control board was burned, the wheel spazing out rapidly going foward and back, this lasted about 20 seconds and persisted after turning it on 2 or 3 time and after that the wheel stopped responding.

The control wiring connection on the board bears the classic burn pattern so both I and Jason thought that this was the issue. I received the board and replaced it but when I turn it on, the wheel shuttering for just a bit (will post in the next video) and then nothing. I opened the wheel back up and the newly installed boards now bears the same burn pattern as the old board. I literally though I put the old board in by mistake, but I did not, also I photographed the new boards before it went in, and it was fine. So my Z10 burned the new control board inside of about 10 seconds and 3 power on.

Nothing changed and the z10 still wouldn't turn on, Jason think the control wiring might be the issue. Some one suggested taking measurement at the 3 control wires, they all measure zero, not really sure what that means. So that's where things stand currently, waiting to hear back from Jason on next steps.

For me this Sounds like a short in the Motor or sensor wires or on the hall sensors!

When your boards get distroyed this fast there must be someting shorting and leading to this Burnout. As it cant be the battery (you would have recognized a short by the big fire ;-) )

it probably is the Motor/hall sensors and/or it's wires….Your small hickups in your ride before might be the start of the shortage, which know is constantly on….

[Marty Backe]

I hope you are able to get your Z10 working. This is why I now only recommend the Z10 to people that can afford to lose $2K without losing sleep.

FWIW, I don't think the Nikola design was influenced in any way by the Z10, nor any other wheel. But that's my opinion.

EWheels is not the only established dealer selling the Z10. They were the largest dealer in the US, but certainly not the only one.  Freemotion, Tec Toyz, and @myfunwheel come to mind as I type this.

[Patton250]

There are repair centers for the Z10 

[Hsiang]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I hope you are able to get your Z10 working. This is why I now only recommend the Z10 to people that can afford to lose $2K without losing sleep.

FWIW, I don't think the Nikola design was influenced in any way by the Z10, nor any other wheel. But that's my opinion.

EWheels is not the only established dealer selling the Z10. They were the largest dealer in the US, but certainly not the only one.  Freemotion, Tec Toyz, and @myfunwheel come to mind as I type this.

My impression was that the 3" MSX wheel came about after the introduction and interest the One Z generated, yes it was speculation since I have no idea what the Gotway designer thought, but it seems that none of the prior wheels had wide tire, just different diameters.

Didn't Ewheel had an exclusive distribution on the Z10 in the US? Since ninebot had not offer the z10 for sale in the us I had assumed that all vendor are china based, but I may be wrong. Time to include my disclamier of not knowing what I am talking about again.. =)

My Z10 is still out of action as I think Jason is still waiting to source parts.. looks like its gonna be some time before I'll be able to ride it again.

 

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

There are repair centers for the Z10 

is this from a different dealer? I thought ninebot does not support the Z10 here in the US?

[Hsiang]

On 7/10/2019 at 5:19 AM, Planemo said:

Edit: Further, I haven't actually been able to confirm whether the 'newer' boards did in fact have any component changes. I haven't been able to get any hi-res pics of both to compare the part numbers. The sensors certainly look the same on all the boards I have seen but whether they are rated differently I don't know. What I do know is that people who have fitted newer boards don't get further problems (until now...)

I don't have a high res photo of the 2 burned boards as I send them both back to Jason already, but here's the backup one I bought from Green Fashion, which should be newer stock.

[Marty Backe]

57 minutes ago, Hsiang said:

My impression was that the 3" MSX wheel came about after the introduction and interest the One Z generated, yes it was speculation since I have no idea what the Gotway designer thought, but it seems that none of the prior wheels had wide tire, just different diameters.

Didn't Ewheel had an exclusive distribution on the Z10 in the US? Since ninebot had not offer the z10 for sale in the us I had assumed that all vendor are china based, but I may be wrong. Time to include my disclamier of not knowing what I am talking about again.. =)

My Z10 is still out of action as I think Jason is still waiting to source parts.. looks like its gonna be some time before I'll be able to ride it again.

 

is this from a different dealer? I thought ninebot does not support the Z10 here in the US?

I was riding an MSX at the beginning of June 2019. The pre-production Z10 was available in July 2019. And of course the Monster was available looong before that, and the Mten3 (3-inch tire) is much earlier.

The Z10 is clearly unique in styling with the 4.1-inch tire. But I don't think the 3-inch wheels are trying to compete in the 4-inch market. The 3-inch wheels still handle like a traditional EUC, but the Z10 (and Mten3) is like a totally different type of EUC.

EWheels may have had an exclusive so that they could get the Z10 direct from Ninebot, but that didn't stop the other valid sellers of EUCs from importing Z10's from other distributors.

 

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, Hsiang said:

I don't have a high res photo of the 2 burned boards as I send them both back to Jason already, but here's the backup one I bought from Green Fashion, which should be newer stock.

Thanks for that Hsiang. Great high res pic but unfortunately still not good enough to see the markings on the usual suspect components (U1 and U2). I think it would need a macro pic of them to make them out properly. Cheers anyway

[Rotciv]

U1 and U2 on the driver board are Allegro ACS72981 current sensor. It should be bidirectional 100A or more. Not sure about sensitivity and supply voltage. 

The pictures with “burnt” sensor is the conformal coating overheating and turning brown. Not sure if the solder between the sensor and the pads melted and got disconnected. 

Possible causes for the current sensors to overheat are short in the motor, poorly applied thermal interface material to the heatsink, and poorly designed pcb footprint and traces.