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Z10 tyre pressure - whats actually happening?

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BIG difference. Very cool 

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I'm still messing around with tyre pressure on mine. I'm around 90-95kg ish. I am currently at about 25psi, trying to find a nice pressure where the uneven roads where I live don't keep throwing me off line.

Here is what I don't understand. The Z10 "tramlines" because of the wider tyre, and people usually recommend lowering the pressure. But wheels with skinnier tyres don't tramline? And they have a smaller contact patch than the Z10. So surely going up in pressure, and decreasing the contact patch of the Z10 tyre is the way to go. Though I'm aware it would make for a very stiff ride. 

 So what am I missing, not understanding? Cheers

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3 hours ago, Retrovertigo said:

I'm still messing around with tyre pressure on mine. I'm around 90-95kg ish. I am currently at about 25psi, trying to find a nice pressure where the uneven roads where I live don't keep throwing me off line.

Here is what I don't understand. The Z10 "tramlines" because of the wider tyre, and people usually recommend lowering the pressure. But wheels with skinnier tyres don't tramline? And they have a smaller contact patch than the Z10. So surely going up in pressure, and decreasing the contact patch of the Z10 tyre is the way to go. Though I'm aware it would make for a very stiff ride. 

 So what am I missing, not understanding? Cheers

IDK. Lol. But I have my Z10 at 15 psi and it’s loads of fun.  It’s definitely a whole lot different than any other wheel though. Lots of people don’t like it. I think it’s awesome. Although it’s not something I would want to ride all the time. I just grab it for fun once in a while.

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7 hours ago, Retrovertigo said:

So what am I missing, not understanding? Cheers

You're right, usually a wider contact patch will increase tramlining but the Z seems to be a bit of an oddity. I think this is because it has such a stiff tyre that increasing pressure makes everything so stiff that when it hits an object the tyre no longer flexes or 'gives' to the object.

Regular euc tyres run both a smaller contact patch AND are much more flexible, even at pressure.

Running low pressure on the Z does indeed increase the contact patch by quite a bit, but the increased flexibility of the carcass which 'gives' more over ruts/edges appears to outweigh any increase in tramlining that might result from the bigger contact patch.

This is what I *think* is going on, but I havent spent enough time playing with higher pressures to be certain. My riding time is limited enough as it is so when I get a chance I just want to ride. I am however 100% certain that I prefer the wheel at 14psi than at 25+.

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@PlanemoYou are absolutely right I think. I hadn't thought about the "give" when running lower pressures. It makes complete sense what you have said. Going to start running lower pressures. I did go down to about 20psi which felt squashy, but I'm going to go lower and see what happens.

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Yeah give it a go. I found theres a marked difference between 20 and 14. You really dont need to worry about a pinch flat (albeit we have no tubes but you wont damage the tyre either) or damaging the rim - the tyre is super stiff, especially the side walls.

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Just had a quick ride up and down my street. Went down to about 17-18psi and what a difference! It feels like it has suspension :D and far easier to control along the camber of the road. And slow riding, I was easily slower than walking pace and keeping a nice straight line! Pretty happy with that pressure at the moment. If I went on a longer ride I'd probably up it a little, just because I'd probably hit smoother faster roads and I think the extra pressure would help.

I've done my back in at the moment though so couldn't go very far. But a good little test nevertheless :) 

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Yes, at 30+ the Z has virtually zero compliance. It might as well be running a solid rubber tyre. Give it a try at 15 too. Like you say, low speed control at low psi is staggering. You can ride it with the wheel virtually turning and be totally stable.

I'm not sure I concur with needing the psi higher at higher speeds. Not sure what it would help. Higher speed demands more compliance than low speed IMO. That 2cm bump at 10mph can be quite a mountain at 28mph...

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Posted (edited)

Yeah sorry, I should have finished off my thoughts, but I was falling asleep while typing!

 I just figured, because of my weight I'm not getting the distance some are getting out of the batteries. If I was on a longer run on smooth roads, I think I'd eke out some extra distance with a higher pressure and therefore the motor not working quite so hard. That plus, I think I'd prefer stiffer tyre walls if I was travelling at higher speeds. It seems like it would be safer? 

Edited by Retrovertigo

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I've run mine at 32 since the day I started riding it.  After only a few miles it seemed to ride great and I got used to it quickly.  Since I'm sometimes curious I dropped it to 26 and found the Z to be noticeably less comfortable to ride.  More sloppy and loose along with the tramline effect increasing a lot.  I did approx. 4 miles at this pressure and didn't get more comfortable.  I put it up to 30 and did a quick test around the driveway and street.  It was better but I need to get out and do some miles to be sure.  Like others, I'm going to keep trying different pressure settings to see if there is that ideal one that works for me.

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At the moment I have a bad back so the lower the better for me to be honest. Having said that, I broke my back and neck when I had my motorbike accident, so I'm sure a big part of me wanting lower pressures is just to stop jarring my neck and back when I'm riding. Ideally somebody would make one with suspension built in, but I'm sure it would mean a lot bulkier wheel as a result. Much like that guy who has built his own EUC.....it's huge!

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Yeah, 30psi seems pretty much perfect for me. Went on a 20-mile ride and for me it was a perfect balance both with a comfortable ride and great stability.

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Hello guys, 

I've to tell you a little bit about the tyre pressure of my Z10.

I decided to lower it just  by feeling without measuring. 

So all seemed to be allright and fine for a long time, it's now a couple of month. 

Yesterday I recognized during my drive when I did little curves that the tire smeared outwards. No problem while going straight, no matter if i was going slow or 40kmph.

At home I took a closer look: :wacko:

I run flat and had lost all air without recognizing it! The sidewalls are such stiff, you don't know a difference if are you going with or without air! At least it seemed so to me.

I've a couple of fine tears along the corner where the tire had to fold because of the less air in it. When I pump in air it goes out in the same moment through those tears. 

So a note for all of you who like to go with little tire pressure in your Z10 > Look that you don't have to less air, so that you don't damage your tire!

I'll try to fix it with slime, if that doesn't work, you can congratulate me, because this needs to change the tire. 

Wish me good luck!

:rolleyes:

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Interim report:

The slime did not fix it, it came out while pumping in air. So i met a tire dealer and get the hole fixed with a vulcanized piece of carbon. The air stays, for the moment the tire is tight. But there are quite a few more cracks who maybe gonna be leaking..:confused1:

The first test drive will show....

Edited by Werner

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Running it without air has likely permanently damaged the carcass. Even the super tough Z tyre is unlikely to be able to support the weight of a person without air. The cracks in the rubber are the result, and the metal cords inside will be damaged too.

I hope it works for you, and it probably wont suddenly deflate (blowout) but if it were me I would change it for peace of mind, but then I am paranoid of anything bad happening whilst riding a wheel!

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You should replace that tyre as it is damaged by too much flexing due to not enough air pressure. You can for short time get away with low pressure at low speed, but at higher speed the tyre will heat up too much and the rubber will crack and fall apart followed by the carcass. This tyre is not safe to use, especially at speed as it could fail catastrophically at some point.

Looking at your tyre it seems like the whole of the tread width was your contact patch as there is noticeable wear right up to where the damage is located. This suggests that your tyre was under-inflated. Ideally the majority of wear should be on the centre tread blocks with only minimal wear on the outer blocks as those should only contact the ground when cornering. The Z tyre has very little sidewall and seems designed to run well at low pressures, but this probably makes it difficult to tell when the pressure is too low.

I suggest you set the tyre pressure by checking how much the tyre compresses with you mounted on your EUC. This is not easy, so most people will guess based on preferred comfort level and stability, which is best when the tyre is under-inflated and so is not so good for the tyre. If you set the pressure to the manufacturer recommended values you will be good. Ideally you want the centre blocks to be your contact patch and the shoulder blocks to only contact the road when leaned over during cornering. Tyres can handle a wide range of pressures so there are no hard and fast rules, but you want to keep the pressure higher rather than lower because over-flexing is what causes the damage.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nic said:

 This suggests that your tyre was under-inflated.

I don't think any suggestions are required - he did state that it had no air in it at all.... ;)

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29 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I don't think any suggestions are required - he did state that it had no air in it at all.... ;)

The air may have been lost after the tyre developed cracks from running too low pressure.

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40 minutes ago, Nic said:

The air may have been lost after the tyre developed cracks from running too low pressure.

Right. Think so too. 

The funny thing is, I decided to put more air into, because I've had the feeling it's to little, one or two days before. But there the child had already spilled with the bath.

Badly my last tour was high speed, nearly straight and on very clear surface with no bumps, so I didn't recognize anything until I made the first little curves. Then the problem showed up. 

The new tire is in the basket, just waiting for 11.11. on Ali Express to purchase. Exactly 1 year ago I ordered my Z10 on 11.11. for the great price of  €1140,-. Got it 51 days later. 😜

Now it's time to step back on my NB S2 for a few weeks. 

Edited by Werner

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Wow 1140 euro is like the cheapest price I have ever seen a Z10! Good work!

Good to hear you are gerting a new tyre, the price is nothing compared to a new face :lol:

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Last year i collected many coupons and coins the last weeks before 11.11. That lowered the price additionally.

Today I see it cheaper.  :rolleyes:

Screenshot_20191110-205758_AliExpress.jpg

Edited by Werner

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Glad to see you sharing your experience, will come in helpful to all the 0 psi guys out there.

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:lol:

I hope that nobody will follow me the 0 psi way. 

Edited by Werner

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