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Your top 3 unique must have wheels? 🌟


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4 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

What are your top 3 unique EUCs that are must haves? And what's your rationality behind them?

I'm new to EUCs, but based on my research, my list would be:

  1. Gotway Mten3 (own, 2 weeks)
    • The most nimble wheel on the planet.
      • 10" u-turns no problem. That's less than half the width of a narrow sidewalk.
      • Responsive. So responsive. It's so much fun instantly weaving around cracks and potholes.
    • Torque. Nothing like zipping up steep 30° hills at 15mph.
    • Can easily crawl at a leisurely walk's pace, so your pedestrian friends don't have to speed up.
    • The 3" wide tire is just perfection - allows me to comfortably cruise at 25+ mph despite it being a 10" wheel.
  2. Kingsong 16x > MCM5 (have not tried either)
    • Hope: Can handle curbs? 
    • Hope: nimbler than a 18" wheel.
  3. Ninebot z10 (have not tried)
    • 4.1" wide wheel!
    • "No wheel comes close to the confidence this steamroller empowers within you. Go forth and steamroll all the things."@houseofjob 2018 [z10 review]
    • Have heard it's like turning a motorcycle - I have a motorcycle track background, and I miss the advanced body positioning techniques of high performance motorcycling.

Why not the Gotway MSX, Gotway Monster, or the Kingsong 18XL? Because for my needs, they don't offer anything unique nor serve a purpose to me; they are the most practical wheels for commuting, but I'm not looking for practicality, just sheer outlier uniqueness.

Ultimately, I want to reduce redundancy. And ideally, one wheel should be able to do something that no other wheel in the list can do - aka, it's not made obsolete. 

Clearly you want to up your game and have a wheel that more or less does it all. IMHO, the Nikola is the best riding wheel currently being made. I don't say this lightly.

So I'm just answering your question in terms of must have, circa 2019. You already have probably the most unique wheel. Now go for the best.

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4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Clearly you want to up your game and have a wheel that more or less does it all. IMHO, the Nikola is the best riding wheel currently being made. I don't say this lightly.

So I'm just answering your question in terms of must have, circa 2019. You already have probably the most unique wheel. Now go for the best.

Oh wow. I was under the impression you didn't like the Nikola. 

I never considered the Nikola since the 16x is coming out soon.

What do you love about it over the MCM5? 

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if an Mten3 was my only wheel in the crater infested portion of NYC i live in, i’d be crippled 10 times over by now.  It’s definitely a fun trick wheel, but it’ll get old real fast where I live.  It also doesn’t have the range needed based on my experience as I use my EUC as actual point to point transportation, not a companion.

With that said, I feel most at ease with the largest seated wheels available, which include the 18S and Monster. 

Most “unique” wheel definitely goes to the Nikola/16X as the 3” wide tire might be a nice compromise for shock absorption. 

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5 minutes ago, andrew900nyc said:

When 36" diameter wheel pedal unicycles first came out (early 2000's if my memory serves me), I rode mine constantly and became quite adept at it. One of my specialties was extreme maneuvering. I was well known among my fellow unicycle club members (the Unatics of NYC) and the (traditional) unicycle forum members for my ability to suddenly hook turns at ridiculous lean angles. In some cases, I was able to touch my toes on the ground when I severely banked turns. The reason I bring this up is because one of the main techniques I used to hook turns on my big wheel unicycle was counter-steering. I, too, rode motorcycles, so I am familiar with it in that context.

On my big wheel (36") unicycle, my counter-steering technique simply involved:

(FOR A LEFT TURN) Prior to initiating the turn, I would get the wheel leaned over onto the right side of the tire. I would try to maintain the same heading as much as possible, but if I started drifting to the right slightly, it didn't matter because as soon as I got the wheel leaned over onto its right side, I would make a hard left weight-shift input to initiate the left turn. For a right turn, I did the opposite. I don't see why this technique wouldn't work for an electric unicycle, though it would probably have to be done with much care due to the higher speed.  

Wow. Just wow. That's amazing!

So it sounds like you were pre-leaning to the opposite side, then tossing into the turn?

It's awesome we can have your perspective on this.

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4 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Wow. Just wow. That's amazing!

So it sounds like you were pre-leaning to the opposite side, then tossing into the turn?

It's awesome we can have your perspective on this.

Thanks! It was something that I found rather interesting and exciting, so it's real nice to hear your similar reaction.

You are 100% correct. What you described is exactly what I was doing. It is something I really enjoyed, so as soon as I heard the words "counter steering" utilized to describe a technique used to turn the Z10, it immediately caught my attention and interest. It seems like a very appealing wheel to me! I better stop thinking about wheels! I'm very new to the world of EUC's and I've already purchased an MTen3 and an MSX, which I thought would stave off my craving for any other wheels for a good while. And now here I am dreaming about a Z10! I need to tell myself: "I cannot buy another wheel. I cannot buy another wheel. I cannot buy another wheel." Deep breaths. Any advice on how to not let this hobby take over my life would be much appreciated.

Thanks! I hope it's helpful.

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21 minutes ago, andrew900nyc said:

Thanks! It was something that I found rather interesting and exciting, so it's real nice to hear your similar reaction.

You are 100% correct. What you described is exactly what I was doing. It is something I really enjoyed, so as soon as I heard the words "counter steering" utilized to describe a technique used to turn the Z10, it immediately caught my attention and interest. It seems like a very appealing wheel to me! I better stop thinking about wheels! I'm very new to the world of EUC's and I've already purchased an MTen3 and an MSX, which I thought would stave off my craving for any other wheels for a good while. And now here I am dreaming about a Z10! I need to tell myself: "I cannot buy another wheel. I cannot buy another wheel. I cannot buy another wheel." Deep breaths. Any advice on how to not let this hobby take over my life would be much appreciated.

Thanks! I hope it's helpful.

I'm new to this as well! This is my 2nd week of wheeling. MCM5 is coming in, but now @Marty Backe has me thinking about the Nikola.

I might return the MCM5 and get the Nikola. But I love the thought of having a Z10 steamroller, plus I'm sure the kingsong 16x will be better than the Nikola.

Since you're interested in countersteering and kinematics, you're going to love this one. Why does pointing your hips and upper body towards a turn work so well? Because when you turn your hip/upper body, something has to turn the other way to conserve angular momentum. That something, is everything below your hips. That counter turn effect is the countersteer!

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4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

IMHO, the Nikola is the best riding wheel currently being made. I don't say this lightly.

@Marty Backe and I don't always agree, but I concur 100% here. Assembly issues aside, the Nikola is the best wheel I've ridden. Did 37.6 today on the 84v and can't wait for the 100v Nikola Plus. 

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5 hours ago, andrew900nyc said:

 

On my big wheel (36") unicycle, my counter-steering technique simply involved:

(FOR A LEFT TURN) Prior to initiating the turn, I would get the wheel leaned over onto the right side of the tire. I would try to maintain the same heading as much as possible, but if I started drifting to the right slightly, it didn't matter because as soon as I got the wheel leaned over onto its right side, I would make a hard left weight-shift input to initiate the left turn. For a right turn, I did the opposite. I don't see why this technique wouldn't work for an electric unicycle, though it would probably have to be done with much care due to the higher speed.  

 

Sorry, but this has nothing to do at all with countersteering on bicycles and motorcycles. This is more of a mass transfer thing, the way rally drivers turn left before throwing the car in a drift in a right hand turn.

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Countersteering is the (at first sight weird but completely normal) act of turning a bike's steering wheel to the left whereby the bike automatically turns right. Once you get up to a certain speed you will always steer your bike like that, it's just that most people don't realise it. You can exploit it by explicitly doing this movement and your bike will automatically lean over and turn in the opposite direction. There is no such thing as counter steering on a euc, since you only have 1 wheel. You can only lean it over to make a turn. Making your feet/hips twist it to the right will not make the wheel lean over and turn to the left, because there is no rear wheel that pushes it over to tilt as it wants to keep going in a straight line. The motor will always push the direction the wheel is pointing, which is not the case with a bicycle or motorbike, as the motor there is pushing a wheel in a straight line.

2 minutes ago, caravela said:

Nicola has one problem for me. How to carry it in hands???

Using the handle?

 

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11 hours ago, houseofjob said:

 

Note that this is not an apples to apples comparison. The MCM5 has the widest/biggest magnets of any EUC motor on the market, even compared to the bigger 18"+ wheels, a major reason why it has such amazing torque.

IMHO the MCM5 always felt to me that it had more torque than the MTen3, and ecodrift's reveal has proven this I think (others before were claiming the MTen3 had more torque due to the 10 vs 14 placebo effect IMO).

And when I had an MTen3, I definitely had cases where I could overpower the 800W nominal motor, whereas I never felt an occasion where I would overpower the MCM5 motor.

 

MCM5 is more powerful than mten3, still mten3 is quite powerful 70% of MSX or MCM5 torque

So going by comparison you can he that is quite high, it is approximation but weight of wheel would also play role...

MSX 200 & 19 -> 100% (reference torque)

Mten3 800 & 10 -> 76% 

Luffy 350 & 10 -> 33%

MCM5 1500 & 14 -> 102%

KS14D  800 & 14-> 54%

V5F 500 & 14 -> 34% Also for speed V5f is not capable of 30km/h that mten3 can easily do.

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3 hours ago, LucasD said:

MCM5 is more powerful than mten3, still mten3 is quite powerful 70% of MSX or MCM5 torque

So going by comparison you can he that is quite high, it is approximation but weight of wheel would also play role...

MSX 200 & 19 -> 100% (reference torque)

Mten3 800 & 10 -> 76% 

Luffy 350 & 10 -> 33%

MCM5 1500 & 14 -> 102%

KS14D  800 & 14-> 54%

V5F 500 & 14 -> 34% Also for speed V5f is not capable of 30km/h that mten3 can easily do.

Wow. Thank you for the numbers! 

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1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

Isn't the 100V Nikola Plus already shipping?

Other than the one in Singapore I haven't seen or heard of any actually shipping. A couple are supposedly in transit. Mine has not yet shipped. 

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11 minutes ago, who_the said:

Other than the one in Singapore I haven't seen or heard of any actually shipping. A couple are supposedly in transit. Mine has not yet shipped. 

A lot of the next gen Gotway wheels are stuck in limbo right now, I know of some who still haven't had their Nikola Pluses ship and they've been waiting a month.  I'm preparing to get my Monster 3 no earlier than September at this point.  Some blame Trump, some blame Gotway.  Nobody knows the truth currently.  

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6 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Countersteering is the (at first sight weird but completely normal) act of turning a bike's steering wheel to the left whereby the bike automatically turns right. Once you get up to a certain speed you will always steer your bike like that, it's just that most people don't realise it. You can exploit it by explicitly doing this movement and your bike will automatically lean over and turn in the opposite direction. There is no such thing as counter steering on a euc, since you only have 1 wheel. You can only lean it over to make a turn. Making your feet/hips twist it to the right will not make the wheel lean over and turn to the left, because there is no rear wheel that pushes it over to tilt as it wants to keep going in a straight line. The motor will always push the direction the wheel is pointing, which is not the case with a bicycle or motorbike, as the motor there is pushing a wheel in a straight line.

Using the handle?

 

 

I am not sure about the exact physics of how countersteering works. However I am sure that on a 3 wheel leaning trike (my Mp3) counter steering is exagerated as compare to a similar diameter wheel bike, since I have extensive ride time on my and it was also confirmed by friends whom taken a term on my bike.

On the Z10 I find it easier to turn not just hanging off the wheel but to shift my weight backward so I am pulling diagonally backward, sort of similar to where I would apply weight on my bike; perpendicular to the center line between the wheels, even though there isn't a back wheel. It might be in my head of course and/or habit of having ridden my Mp3 for ten years. Also the Z10 doesn't go and accelerate fast enough to ever require the kind of lean where the dynamic would become more obvious so it'll be very hard to tell. But I think this is the fun of the wheel, there's a bit of uncertainties, enough so where I am always thinking.. "hmm.. I should try going that way a little bit more next time." Vs my experience with the 16x, which was predictable but less interesting.

Oh and I have the i5 and the Z10 so I am certainly on the extreme end of things.

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6 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Countersteering is the (at first sight weird but completely normal) act of turning a bike's steering wheel to the left whereby the bike automatically turns right. Once you get up to a certain speed you will always steer your bike like that, it's just that most people don't realise it. You can exploit it by explicitly doing this movement and your bike will automatically lean over and turn in the opposite direction. There is no such thing as counter steering on a euc, since you only have 1 wheel. You can only lean it over to make a turn. Making your feet/hips twist it to the right will not make the wheel lean over and turn to the left, because there is no rear wheel that pushes it over to tilt as it wants to keep going in a straight line. The motor will always push the direction the wheel is pointing, which is not the case with a bicycle or motorbike, as the motor there is pushing a wheel in a straight line.

Nope. It's a physical phenomenon of the wheel itself. Whether it has a 'steering handle' doesn't matter. Countersteering applies to all single track vehicles, including unicycles.

Source: I'm a rusty physicist. 

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6 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Nope. It's a physical phenomenon of the wheel itself. Whether it has a 'steering handle' doesn't matter. But you're welcome to believe what you want.

I'll believe what I read, if it makes sense.

It makes sense

 

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1 hour ago, who_the said:

Other than the one in Singapore I haven't seen or heard of any actually shipping. A couple are supposedly in transit. Mine has not yet shipped. 

And what are the benefits of 100V over the 84V? Just higher top speed and a wider voltage sag buffer right?

I also heard the torque is lower on the 100V, which was surprising.

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12 hours ago, andrew900nyc said:

You are 100% correct. What you described is exactly what I was doing. It is something I really enjoyed, so as soon as I heard the words "counter steering" utilized to describe a technique used to turn the Z10, it immediately caught my attention and interest. It seems like a very appealing wheel to me! I better stop thinking about wheels! I'm very new to the world of EUC's and I've already purchased an MTen3 and an MSX, which I thought would stave off my craving for any other wheels for a good while. And now here I am dreaming about a Z10! I need to tell myself: "I cannot buy another wheel. I cannot buy another wheel. I cannot buy another wheel." Deep breaths. Any advice on how to not let this hobby take over my life would be much appreciated.

Nice! Good to have confirmation from the manual unicycle side, as I've definitely countersteered on my Z, and will do the same less frequently on thinner tire wheels, only when approaching a turn at high speed.

Also, you've come to the wrong place to curb your new found EUC addiction! We are a heavy EUC buying enabler forum!

You need to join the local NYC groups (in my signature on desktop) so we can further enable you! :lol: (I know some of our guys have met up with the manual uni group for unicycle day in the past)

6 hours ago, LucasD said:

So going by comparison you can he that is quite high, it is approximation but weight of wheel would also play role...

Sure but this is not the whole story as average power is just that, an average: the 0-10mph "torque" that most talk about can be an entirely different looking picture that the simple 0-max average figure.

12 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

plus I'm sure the kingsong 16x will be better than the Nikola.

I really wouldn't be so sure there, the tire feels are the same IMHO (makes sense both being about 17x 3) and similar 50+ whee weights.

In the end, it's really gonna come down to personal preference choosing between these two wheels, mainly in the aesthetics, wheel body volume, speed vs torque, etc., no clear better than IMHO

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