EUC Legality Chart

[Marty Backe]

28 minutes ago, Smoother said:

I don't think people who ride in legal areas have a right to ask for or create this list.  You have no skin in the game.  If you're legal.  Be happy about it.  But leave the rest of us alone.  What is it to you if someone in a non- legal area buys one without knowing the legality.  There are plenty of people riding , knowingly in illegal countries, what is the tragedy if one more buys one?  Certainly none to you.  Please give it a rest; your casual curiosity bring more danger to those not blessed by living in a legal zone.  This is not a subject for your casual curiosity. Your insistence is quite frankly, insulting.  Especially now that the issues for those of us WITH skin in the game have been spelled out to you.

Your concern to help a hypothetical unsuspecting buyer, puts all the real owners in illegal countries at risk of more people knowing what we do is illegal. And the more that know that the greater the chance that the information will eventually jeopardize a rider.  Your point about Seatle cops not knowing their own law is PRECISLY why I don't want this list, because I want my police and the police in all the other illegal countries to remain mostly in the dark for as long as possible.  You don't think police officer search the internet for information too?

My next act is to remove my country from my profile, So I can't directly be a victim of someones "good idea"

If there are savvy authorities out "there", they can already search the Forum for members. After all, doesn't a British authority already know that they are illegal in Britain. Why would they need a chart here to tell them? They wouldn't even find this Forum unless they knew they were illegal and starting hunting for people. Or you think someone will just happen across this page?

No, if they are so devious they can already search the Forum. But guess what, there are no e-mails. How are they going to find this Smoother dude? I've "known" you for years now, but I actually know nothing about you. Nada.  How exactly is a bumbling bureaucrat going to find you?

I'm really missing something here. Honestly. Help me out.

[Patton250]

57 minutes ago, Esper said:

I think it's better for the rider (or potential rider) to know if the area they live in allows these devices in public or not, especially if it's illegal. I personally would not want to spend $1000 or more on a new wheel for it to get taken away the next week if I could have know it would happen before spending the money.

I don't need to know that shooting a person with a gun is wrong to own a gun, but I do need to know where it's legal to carry one and where it isn't. You know what I mean? That's a poor example that's even more poorly worded.. But I can rephrase it if needed.

 They can’t be any place in the United States of America where they can confiscate these things. Wheels I mean. :-)

[Smoother]

26 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

How are they going to find this Smoother dude?

Well up to a few minutes ago this forum was littered with where I live and where I ride.  But I have gone through and removed as much of that as possible.  But my original point was not a witch hunt of me or another member, but just making it easier for people with a grudge to research and discover more easily , the person that rides an EUC regularly near them is actually breaking the law.  They may have an EUC grudge (loud bluetooth music, riding fast, riding on biker path, etc) or they may have an unrelated grudge boundary dispute, parking dispute, jealous, etc) and want to get back at that person.  Or it may be a cycling Nazi who is determined to keep bike lanes for non power bikes only and is angry at the growing number of EUCs on HIS bike path.  What ever the reason, the easier it is for them to find the information the easier it is for them to cause trouble.  But by dobbing in their enemy/neighbor, they are also dobbing in everyone else in that area where the authorities may have been unaware of EUCs or unaware that they were illegal.  Once they know this info, they will notice them all the time from that point on AND now know they are illegal.  I already have to be on the look out for police on the off chance one of them is aware of EUC status, the last thing I need is more authorities knowing this.  And others ride past a lot more police than I do (no example given out of respect for his anonymity)

All I'm saying is don't make it easier for people to look this stuff up.  Some of us will one day pay the consequences for others idle curiosity

 

EDIT I remember over a year ago riding past a random woman in the street who called out "those are illegal"  And most of the time I ride with headphones so god knows how many others have made remarks like that.  I just don't want any member of the public to do one google search and find this glorious list.  The information is already available, I'm just asking not to make it easier to find.  After a few fruitless searches most of them will lose interest and give up, if the info is buried.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Smoother

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Well up to a few minutes ago this forum was littered with where I live and where I ride.  But I have gone through and removed as much of that as possible.  But my original point was not a witch hunt of me or another member, but just making it easier for people with a grudge to research and discover more easily , the person that rides an EUC regularly near them is actually breaking the law.  They may have an EUC grudge (loud bluetooth music, riding fast, riding on biker path, etc) or they may have an unrelated grudge boundary dispute, parking dispute, jealous, etc) and want to get back at that person.  Or it may be a cycling Nazi who is determined to keep bike lanes for non power bikes only and is angry at the growing number of EUCs on HIS bike path.  What ever the reason, the easier it is for them to find the information the easier it is for them to cause trouble.  But by dobbing in their enemy/neighbor, they are also dobbing in everyone else in that area where the authorities may have been unaware of EUCs or unaware that they were illegal.  Once they know this info, they will notice them all the time from that point on AND now know they are illegal.  I already have to be on the look out for police on the off chance one of them is aware of EUC status, the last thing I need is more authorities knowing this.  And others ride past a lot more police than I do (no example given out of respect for his anonymity)

All I'm saying is don't make it easier for people to look this stuff up.  Some of us will one day pay the consequences for others idle curiosity

I hear you and empathize with you even though I can't relate in any way: My name is Marty Backe and I live in Downey California. Come and get me coppers 

[Smoother]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I hear you and empathize with you even though I can't relate in any way: My name is Marty Backe and I live in Downey California. Come and get me coppers 

Not illegal there, not an accurate comparison.  I'm actually surprised at you.

If you can't relate than you can't have empathy either.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Smoother

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Not illegal there, not an accurate comparison.  I'm actually surprised at you.

If you can't relate than you can't have empathy either.

I guess it was a poor choice of words. I relate as a fellow human being that has worries.

Maybe I'm not focusing on the illegality but more the concerns of Big Brother coming after us. It's just not something I can worry about.

If this discussion were about guns then I could probably relate more. I'd rather California not know the status of my gun ownership. But EUCs? I just can't envision the world where they are going to come knocking on your door or target you because of EUC ownership. It's just so niche.

EDIT: I'm going to drop out of this topic because I'm probably ruffling feathers and can't relate anyway.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Hatchet]

They are illegal here, I've been harrassed, but trying to stifle information is a silly notion, lol. You think an official will not just simply look up the law? Is the law hard to find where you live?

Railing against people listing legality sounds ...well not sensible, i'll leave it at that.

99.99% of the time you will get a complaint or harrassed is on the spot, not after some person does research to see if that guy I saw riding by was doing something illegal. Then what, they cross-reference this forum to find your name and location, call in the feds to set up a sting operation? Hahaha.

 

 

 

[Smoother]

5 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

They are illegal here, I've been harrassed, but trying to stifle information is a silly notion, lol. You think an official will not just simply look up the law? Is the law hard to find where you live?

Railing against people listing legality sounds ...well not sensible, i'll leave it at that.

99.99% of the time you will get a complaint or harrassed is on the spot, not after some person does research to see if that guy I saw riding by was doing something illegal. Then what, they cross-reference this forum to find your name and location, call in the feds to set up a sting operation? Hahaha.

 

 

 

Congratulations. you win the prize for not listening.  But there was a lot of competition.

[LanghamP]

Silly that this discussion even comes up as all these tiny vehicles, weighing far less than the most anorexic high-school girl, are much much less dangerous than an SUV driven by a distracted driver on their cellphone. The number of people killed in London by bicyclists ranges between 0-2.

However, in Paris, as @Lutalois probably familiar with, the toxic air is choked by diesel and gas fumes, so much so that the authorities have no choice but to limit cars and therefore encourage alternative electric vehicles. The situation demands it, because the pollution level is demonstrably harmful to humans.

I find it astounding that in the US electric cars are given massive subsidies while eBikes and other PEV are taxed/tarriffed. If you're taxing PEVs then that's probably a good indication you're soon making PEV mostly illegal in most jurisdictions. Fine == banning.

Therefore, @Smootheris probably correct. At first his Ahab-like rant seemed to come out of left-field, but the more I thought about it the more sense it made, as a conspiracy of assholes can and would ban PEVs as their default law enforcement.

[Smoother]

1 minute ago, LanghamP said:

as a conspiracy of assholes can and would ban PEVs as their default law enforcement.

And they do.  And the harder it is for the great unwashed to find out about it the better.

[Patton250]

10 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Silly that this discussion even comes up as all these tiny vehicles, weighing far less than the most anorexic high-school girl, are much much less dangerous than an SUV driven by a distracted driver on their cellphone. The number of people killed in London by bicyclists ranges between 0-2.

However, in Paris, as @Lutalois probably familiar with, the toxic air is choked by diesel and gas fumes, so much so that the authorities have no choice but to limit cars and therefore encourage alternative electric vehicles. The situation demands it, because the pollution level is demonstrably harmful to humans.

I find it astounding that in the US electric cars are given massive subsidies while eBikes and other PEV are taxed/tarriffed. If you're taxing PEVs then that's probably a good indication you're soon making PEV mostly illegal in most jurisdictions. Fine == banning.

Therefore, @Smootheris probably correct. At first his Ahab-like rant seemed to come out of left-field, but the more I thought about it the more sense it made, as a conspiracy of assholes can and would ban PEVs as their default law enforcement.

 I don’t know I seen some videos of guys cruising 15 to 20 mph right past and in between pedestrians.  So if one of those people walking especially an elderly person shifted to the left or right quickly the EUC rider would most definitely smash into them. I don’t know if that would kill them or not but I doubt it would be very pretty. I can also see why people walking in the park minding their own business would be annoyed with people whizzing by them that fast on an electric machine.  Guess you could say the same for regular bicyclists because some of them go 20 mph or faster but there’s no way any countris going to make a bicycle illegal. 

[Graniteone]

Just my .02, I don’t think sticking your head in the sand is the best course of action to support your interest. Unfortunately we are lumped in with E scooters for better or worse. The average or even above average “Joe” has no idea what an EUC is even called and certainly most politicians are clueless which can also hurt our interest as we are all in the same soup with the e scooters. This is the reason we to need maintain a very positive stewardship toward the general public. Listing the legal status per country, state or city with a positive spin is ideal to help protect and enlighten newbies and busy bodies. Stand up and be heard or let the ignorant advocate away on your behalf. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Graniteone

[meepmeepmayer]

@Smoother You realize this thread changes nothing? People could look up EUC/PEV legality if they cared before.

Also half the information is vague or false. Even the supposedly "legal" areas aren't what they seem (I seem to remember a 15mph/25kph limit in California or something like this) and the "illegal" areas might actually be grey areas. Nobody is going to rely on *that* if they are out to get you. They'll just ask some local authority or ask a lawyer (lol at such people). Provided they knew your account name in the first place.

Not sure what concrete scenario this thread suddenly allows that didn't exist before. Someone googles "electric ridable legality in X" and finds so much more information thanks to this thread than he could before? I don't see the point in your sudden paranoia. Maybe you have really nasty neigbors/locals or something Sorry

-

Also, a different topic, but the more people would have their "illegal" PEVs taken away in case of enforcement, the harder that would be to do. In my opinion, with politicians complete refusal to do anything reasonable (like blanket restrictions to 20kph that seem to be a sabotaging standard everywhere), the best way to advance PEVs is to break the law (if applicable) en masse. Shock doctrine! Enjoy the fact that your *censored for your protection* can do over 30kph. Lots of things you can't hear at that speed's wind noise.

Or in other words, if you can't win by being nice, don't be nice in the first place. My opinion. I'm fully prepared to start retaliatory anti-car measures if something pisses me off too much (so many cars driving around with expired permits, you could get a few people and literally terrorize the local traffic. Which I'm going to do if I ever get in trouble with the police for my sweet EUC.)

Edited July 9, 2019 by meepmeepmayer
spelling

[Lutalo]

Wow! This one has gone way off the rails since I last checked in. I thought that we were talking about a list of regulations that exists for the edification of the EUC community. I feel that a list like this will help those of us who enjoy traveling to stay in compliance when we travel. How could clearer knowledge about any regulations governing what we do be a bad thing? Neither The CIA, FBI, or the Secret Service are watching EUCs. I ride through the White House grounds frequently and get 👍🏿 by Secret Service. The Men in Black are not about to flash the pen light in our faces over EUCs.

[who_the]

Deep thanks to all who support and maintain this list. As a riding community we are all better served by the knowledge of laws in our own communities and others.

Legal status is crucial. Worldwide. Even with speed limits. I'd rather have a speed limit than be banned. Cars have speed limits, and yes, you can have your car seized for going too fast or driving unsafely. (And yes, cars do exceed their speed limits, ever day, without penalty, as I would expect PEV to do as well.)

It's easy to have your PEV seized, even in the United States, even in PEV-friendly California. Try riding across the Golden Gate Bridge. Or in some of our East Bay parks. You may make it across, you may not. And if you disobey the lawful order of law enforcement there, they can definitely threaten to seize your vehicle.

I don't know how courts work in the UK, but in the US, any "evidence" from third-hand accounts, like forum postings, would be considered circumstantial and carry little weight. Having said that, obviously participation in forums like this is of your free will and we can all choose not to participate or restrict what we mention or how we identify ourselves.

[stephen]

Well if people  do pick up on this topic they will have noticed  euc's are now legal in the UK, any speed any power as long as you wear shoes and a helmet 👍

Edited July 9, 2019 by stephen

[TomOnWheels]

10 hours ago, Lutalo said:

That's good to hear and know. Could have turned out much worse.

Yes... another options the government was considering was to allow it only on pedestrian ways with at a very limited speed... Anyway France have to conform and adapt local legislation  to European law.

[TomOnWheels]

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I hear you and empathize with you even though I can't relate in any way: My name is Marty Backe and I live in Downey California. Come and get me coppers 

Marty, on your profile picture I see that you even hide yourself ! May I ask a question: are you the real Batman ? ;-)

[Lutalo]

5 hours ago, stephen said:

Well if people  do pick up on this topic they will have noticed  euc's are now legal in the UK, any speed any power as long as you wear shoes and a helmet 👍

Fantastic news 🎊 

[Hatchet]

11 hours ago, Smoother said:

Congratulations. you win the prize for not listening.  But there was a lot of competition.

No, I read fine, you are just pushing ridiculous paranoid idiocy.(edited).

Edited July 9, 2019 by Hatchet

[Dirty Joe]

Japan

As a new EUC rider and American in Kanagawa, Prefecture (Japan) near Tokyo I have asked the local police about the law and the EUC.  The police here along with about 99.83% of the population have never seen one before.  They basically told me to keep it out of traffic and to keep it at safe speeds. Personally, I think it would be suicidal to ride on some of these streets with a lot traffic just because the streets are so small. 

I have rode past police a few times in the past couple days on the side streets and receive looks from the cops like I just landed from Mars, it also helps that they allow us dumb Americans slack when we don’t know the customs and the like.  I guess if I’m using some common sense and not terrorizing the women and childern with the EUC I will be good to go.

Japan is an untapped market for the EUC.  My APP only shows 5 King Songs in the entire country.

[Planemo]

7 hours ago, stephen said:

Well if people  do pick up on this topic they will have noticed  euc's are now legal in the UK, any speed any power as long as you wear shoes and a helmet 👍

I think you made that up you cheeky boy 

[atdlzpae]

7 hours ago, stephen said:

Well if people  do pick up on this topic they will have noticed  euc's are now legal in the UK, any speed any power as long as you wear shoes and a helmet 👍

If they really require shoes... I just hope they won't enforce it.

 

Can you please provide a source?

I was only able to find references that they are working on legalizing e-scooters... And I've wasn't able to find any references to shoes and helmets.

Edited July 9, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Planemo]

Hes winding you up my friend...

[atdlzpae]

Damn, I've been played!

Well, if they define that e-scooter has to have a handle and a mechanical brakes like in Ireland... Then ECU's will still be screwed in UK.