First (and hopefully last!) high speed wipe-out!

[Catlord17]

I haven't been around for a while because I've been very busy working my butt off for the majority of this year, but occasionally I find time to ride my MSX for relaxation.  It has less than 150 miles on it and I have had it since early this year.  How sad. 

Anyway, yesterday I was frustrated and couldn't focus well enough to work because of it, so I decided that my fastest path back to working state was to go ride my EUC and relax myself that way. (I am self employed and work from home.)

I'm in Florida and lately we have temperatures from 90F to 100F every day, but I geared up with everything I had anyway, as I always do, because I don't feel like superman.  Right now my gear is wrist guards, elbow pads, knee pads and a neon yellow bicycle helmet.  Looks dorky as hell, but I get SEEN, and that probably saved my life yesterday.

I was riding on the sidewalk with no pedestrians or other traffic, and maintaining a sane speed for a sidewalk of about 10 to 12 mph.  But, unlike most days, where I am happy cruising long distances at relatively low speeds, on this day I wanted SPEED to vent my aggression and frustrations.  So when I came to an area where I could ride in the bike lane on the road, I got in the bike lane and took off.  

This area is a straightaway for about 2 miles, and I got in the bike lane where I had about 1.5 miles left.  There was no sense of lack of control or stability.  I heard no 80% alarm (the only one I have turned on) and I didn't get tiltback (I have my wheel set to the highest tiltback speed possible [30 mph?], but it is set to limit me with tiltback).  I was pushing harder and harder as I explored this wheel's real ability for the first time (I normally never go above 25 mph, quite naturally), and it felt very stable.  I wasn't watching my speed though, as my phone was in my pocket.

When I saw that I had to turn or ride through an intersection, I decided to turn.  I had two options, slow down immediately and get back on the sidewalk, or slow down gently and turn at the intersection instead.  There is no bike lane on the intersecting road, so I immediately tried to decelerate and get on the sidewalk.  But going as fast as I was, I ran out of space unexpectedly quickly, and this forced me to try a harder deceleration than I have ever attempted before.  Which immediately led me to the Wobble of Death, and high speed involuntary backward dismount.

According to my WheelLog record, I was doing 29.4 mph when I came off the wheel.  By piecing together the evidence (I don't fully remember how this happened as a result of my surge of fear), I concluded that I landed on my palms and right elbow, my weight forcing my back to hit the ground on the left side, and the majority of my impact (and where I impacted hardest) was my left gluteus maximus.  I skidded for several feet before coming to a stop, but my wheel went off into the wild blue yonder, as these wheels do when they're given their head, and came to rest (thank God) in the grass on the side of the road.

I remember saying something (but not what) and then "F*ck!".  I do remember the pain in my butt was quite amazing.  I immediately got myself out of the road (I landed in the middle of the road onto which I was trying to turn) and assessed the situation.  I saw that my wheel was safely off the road, so I limped myself over to it.  When I got to it, I wasn't sure if it would work again, but the moment I picked it up, it happily re-balanced and beeped at me, ready to go.  There are some serious scrapes on it now, apparently it went airborne and landed on the handle at high speed before rolling into the grass.  The side pads have plenty of dirt and grass under them, too.  At first I had a very pronounced limp, and the pain of walking was quite a surprise.  But I realized that I was miles from home, and I had the option of walking it home or riding it home.  Given where I landed, I decided to ride.  To it's credit, the wheel performed as if nothing had happened.

When I got home and took off my shirt and jeans, I saw that somehow my shirt had managed to remain entirely unscathed, but my jeans were shredded beyond the point of wearability; they sacrificed themselves for my betterment, and will receive a discharge from service with full honors.  They saved me from a much worse fate, but I still have serious road rash and tiger stripe bruises on my butt.  If I had landed slightly differently, I could very easily have broken my coccyx bone and/or hip, and landed in the hospital.  Immense gratitude for that not happening!

Unfortunately, I had no choice and had only about 5 minutes to disinfect the road rash before I had to return to work, both frustrated and in pain, sitting for several hours before I was finished.  Surprisingly, I didn't have too much difficulty with being necessarily productive, in spite of the initial frustration and discomfort. 

That night, I was able to drive to dinner with my girlfriend, and then we went to the beach and ended up walking 4 miles before going home.  It wasn't uncomfortable, which is amazing.  Today I feel better still, no limp today or last night.  I am amazingly fortunate.

Anyway, here's what I learned from this experience.

1. Don't do that.
2. Pay better attention to your surroundings.
3. Plan your route better.
4. Keep to speeds you are familiar and confident with if you ride with traffic of any kind.
5. Slow down at a speed you are familiar with unless you're practicing high speed braking in a safe place.
6. Keep wearing all safety gear, no matter how dorky it looks or what anyone else says or does.
7. Get and wear a full face helmet.  
8. Get motorcycle full body armor, top and bottom.  (I apparently don't have buns of steel.)
9. Find ways to vent frustration that offer less chance for an ass-kicking.
10. THINK, dumbass!

Did I miss anything?

So now I am a member of the "high speed wipe-out club".  I think I'll try to pass on a repeat.

Can anyone suggest any armor/helmet options that I should specifically avoid?  Some of it is pretty cheap price-wise, but has relatively good ratings.  What's a good price range to aim for if I want good armor? Anything in particular I should or should not go for in armor and/or helmet?  It looks like I could spend between ~$150 and $700+ on fully armoring up.

And finally... the death wobbles... is it the wheel, or is my level of skill too low?

Thanks guys.  I appreciate your time and any responses.

[Kristof Willen]

glad to hear you're Ok - looks like a serious crash you encountered there.

37 minutes ago, Catlord17 said:

Anyway, here's what I learned from this experience.

1. Plan your route better.
2. Keep to speeds you are familiar and confident with if you ride with traffic of any kind.

This.  I always refrain from going into turbo mode on routes I'm not familiar with.  There's nothing more scary than hitting an invisible bump or pothole at 20+ mph and feeling your feet losing contact with the pedals. 

On my regular commute route I'm rocket man though  - I know every pothole/bump location there. 

[Lillian]

I'm glad you're okay and can inject humor. You're a great writer, by the way.

I don't have the best EUC safety gear advice as I am also researching that now. I have what's likely more suited for a bicycle than an EUC. My helmet is a Lumos Matrix, but I am considering the Skully or Cross Helmet for the heads up display and full-face protection. My wrist gear is Flexmeter D30 with a mirror I attached. That's likely not the best idea if in an accident, the reflective material shatters on my hand.

Re. #3: There's a bike lane along the street directly in front of my workplace that goes about 1.8 miles to my street. From there, I just turn and continue along less busy side streets until I arrive home. It's an absolute perfect straightaway...except it's in the street in NYC with a variety of surfaces and hazards. I have not ridden my EUC on that path because I'm afraid, but have spotted an EUC rider on it.

[Mike Sacristan]

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

As far as I can tell the root cause is you not being acquainted with hard braking at high speed. It's really not even worth it to be honest. You can brake, it's just a whole other story to do hard braking on the MSX. It requires specific training and experience and it can be done in different ways as well. I would have just normal braked and take whatever punishment was coming my way.

I ride my MSX in the exact middle. My feet are on the middle of the pedals, and my body is over the center of the wheel. I will sometimes edge my feet forwards if the coast is clear so that I can hit a higher speed without leaning forward too much. But I do this knowing that my braking will be compromised.

I know the feeling of being worked to death and trying to find a way to clear your mind. Riding is great for focusing on something else.

Have you tried riding in a tucked position? Bent knees and hands behind your back with your upper body tilted forward. It's good fun and will teach bent leg balance which can be handy for some of the braking styles.  Take a look at Kuji's braking tests that he does on the 18XL and MSX.

You will always land where you don't have armour. The universe requires this to maintain it's balance.
A full face like a Lazer+ is a nice light helmet with good protection. Riding with it will require some relearning.
Body armour like Leatt Adventure is decent enough. Or the Fox Titan armour although it has been copied/cloned to death and looks cheap.
Otherwise you can get an armoured hoodie or jacket.
Triple 8 knee pads are good enough, or any similar protec, killer 8 or whatever. As long as they are butterfly that go over your jeans/pants.
Wrist guards and gloves are good to have.
Hip protection and butt protection can be found as under garments by G-form.

I do 90% of my rides with only gloves and I ride as if I were naked. I don't use armour to compensate for skill or bad decisions and I don't use armour to protect me from the unknown because the unknown is unknown anyway. Then I would be better off not riding. I ride to be free. 

What pedal mode do you use? I ride on the hardest mode.
Do you know how to ride backwards? After learning it I became much better friends with my MSX. Now it does what I say.
How did you brake? Sit backwards in an invisible chair? Grab the pads and crank backwards? Tilt your upper body backwards and let the wheel go out under you doing a leg extension? Arch your body backwards? Something else?

[Mike Sacristan]

Another thought.

How do you know how fast you're going?
This time you found out when it was too late.

I use the Gotway alarms and I also use Darknessbot to notify me at 40km/h with an alarm.
This way 2 beeps = 30-35km/h. 3 beeps = 35-40km/h. 3 beeps + Darknessbot alarm = 40km/h.
If I am doing over 40km/h constantly then I will set the Darknessbot alarm to 45. Darknessbot is my final alarm where I should back off.

[Catlord17]

17 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I'm glad you're okay and can inject humor. You're a great writer, by the way.

I don't have the best EUC safety gear advice as I am also researching that now. I have what's likely more suited for a bicycle than an EUC. My helmet is a Lumos Matrix, but I am considering the Skully or Cross Helmet for the heads up display and full-face protection. My wrist gear is Flexmeter D30 with a mirror I attached. That's likely not the best idea if in an accident, the reflective material shatters on my hand.

Re. #3: There's a bike lane along the street directly in front of my workplace that goes about 1.8 miles to my street. From there, I just turn and continue along less busy side streets until I arrive home. It's an absolute perfect straightaway...except it's in the street in NYC with a variety of surfaces and hazards. I have not ridden my EUC on that path because I'm afraid, but have spotted an EUC rider on it.

Thank you for the compliment.  When it comes to writing, I have done virtually everything there is to do, from writing stories to novels to advertising and instruction manuals, as well as editing. 

Thank you also for the information on helmets. I had no idea such cool options were available.  HUD?  Rear view camera?  Be still my beating heart!

The road I was on is relatively new pavement, so no issues.  Although I should have been paying better attention sheerly for the possibility of glass, etc. in the bike lane, as well.

[Catlord17]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

As far as I can tell the root cause is you not being acquainted with hard braking at high speed. It's really not even worth it to be honest. You can brake, it's just a whole other story to do hard braking on the MSX. It requires specific training and experience and it can be done in different ways as well. I would have just normal braked and take whatever punishment was coming my way.

I ride my MSX in the exact middle. My feet are on the middle of the pedals, and my body is over the center of the wheel. I will sometimes edge my feet forwards if the coast is clear so that I can hit a higher speed without leaning forward too much. But I do this knowing that my braking will be compromised.

I know the feeling of being worked to death and trying to find a way to clear your mind. Riding is great for focusing on something else.

Have you tried riding in a tucked position? Bent knees and hands behind your back with your upper body tilted forward. It's good fun and will teach bent leg balance which can be handy for some of the braking styles.  Take a look at Kuji's braking tests that he does on the 18XL and MSX.

You will always land where you don't have armour. The universe requires this to maintain it's balance.
A full face like a Lazer+ is a nice light helmet with good protection. Riding with it will require some relearning.
Body armour like Leatt Adventure is decent enough. Or the Fox Titan armour although it has been copied/cloned to death and looks cheap.
Otherwise you can get an armoured hoodie or jacket.
Triple 8 knee pads are good enough, or any similar protec, killer 8 or whatever. As long as they are butterfly that go over your jeans/pants.
Wrist guards and gloves are good to have.
Hip protection and butt protection can be found as under garments by G-form.

I do 90% of my rides with only gloves and I ride as if I were naked. I don't use armour to compensate for skill or bad decisions and I don't use armour to protect me from the unknown because the unknown is unknown anyway. Then I would be better off not riding. I ride to be free. 

What pedal mode do you use? I ride on the hardest mode.
Do you know how to ride backwards? After learning it I became much better friends with my MSX. Now it does what I say.
How did you brake? Sit backwards in an invisible chair? Grab the pads and crank backwards? Tilt your upper body backwards and let the wheel go out under you doing a leg extension? Arch your body backwards? Something else?

Quote

 

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

As far as I can tell the root cause is you not being acquainted with hard braking at high speed. It's really not even worth it to be honest. You can brake, it's just a whole other story to do hard braking on the MSX. It requires specific training and experience and it can be done in different ways as well. I would have just normal braked and take whatever punishment was coming my way.

 

The "whatever punishment was coming my way" would have taken me into a busy intersection.  I had a split second to assess the threat and I decided against going into a busy intersection, because the time to assess the situation was not there.  So it might have been just me riding with traffic through an intersection, and it might have been me going splat.  I try to avoid splatting on people's cars, so...

I'm not familiar with different ways of braking.  I just do it my way.

Quote

I ride my MSX in the exact middle. My feet are on the middle of the pedals, and my body is over the center of the wheel. I will sometimes edge my feet forwards if the coast is clear so that I can hit a higher speed without leaning forward too much. But I do this knowing that my braking will be compromised.

I ride with my feet positioned to give me the best balance between braking and acceleration, with a little bit of bias towards braking, since that's more important than accelerating in 90% of cases.

Quote

I know the feeling of being worked to death and trying to find a way to clear your mind. Riding is great for focusing on something else.

Tru dat!  It is quite magical how well it calms me and brings me back to a state of emotionally healthy when I am angry, frustrated or just need to think.  My wheel is perhaps the best "therapy" I have ever had.

Quote

Have you tried riding in a tucked position? Bent knees and hands behind your back with your upper body tilted forward. It's good fun and will teach bent leg balance which can be handy for some of the braking styles.  Take a look at Kuji's braking tests that he does on the 18XL and MSX.

I have done a little bit of trying to ride seated (very little patience for being unable to so far) and to work towards that I have done some work riding with my legs progressively bent more and more.  But not a tucked position.  That sounds like it would be a worthy thing to explore.  Thanks for the references.  I'll do that.

Quote

You will always land where you don't have armour. The universe requires this to maintain it's balance.
A full face like a Lazer+ is a nice light helmet with good protection. Riding with it will require some relearning.
Body armour like Leatt Adventure is decent enough. Or the Fox Titan armour although it has been copied/cloned to death and looks cheap.
Otherwise you can get an armoured hoodie or jacket.
Triple 8 knee pads are good enough, or any similar protec, killer 8 or whatever. As long as they are butterfly that go over your jeans/pants.
Wrist guards and gloves are good to have.
Hip protection and butt protection can be found as under garments by G-form.

It is rather amusing that my example supports your statement that you always land where you don't have armor.  Thanks for the brand suggestions.  I have some gloves too, but usually I am trying to keep an eye on my speed and don't wear them; lately I haven't really cared what my speed is, since usually I don't go very fast, so I think I'll start wearing them.  

Quote

I do 90% of my rides with only gloves and I ride as if I were naked. I don't use armour to compensate for skill or bad decisions and I don't use armour to protect me from the unknown because the unknown is unknown anyway. Then I would be better off not riding. I ride to be free. 

I'm not interested in armor to compensate for skill or bad decisions, but I do want it to protect me from the unexpected.  Punctures to the sidewall, broken glass, oil spots I can't stop in time for, getting hit by a car out of control, various random strangeness.  Better safe than sorry, I say.

Quote

What pedal mode do you use? I ride on the hardest mode.

I ride on the hardest mode.

 

Quote

Do you know how to ride backwards? After learning it I became much better friends with my MSX. Now it does what I say.

Not yet.  I haven't really had much time for riding at all, maybe 20-30 minutes once or twice a week at best, so I tend to ride for the joy of riding and the theraputic value of it, not try to learn new things while I am so strapped for time.  But I am going to teach myself to learn to ride backwards when I have a little more time for riding.

Quote

How did you brake? Sit backwards in an invisible chair? Grab the pads and crank backwards? Tilt your upper body backwards and let the wheel go out under you doing a leg extension? Arch your body backwards? Something else?

I tend to bring my weight back while standing fully upright, but at an angle relative to the wheel.  I should probably learn to lower my center of gravity more while I am braking.  These options you mention sound interesting to try.  

[Catlord17]

30 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Another thought.

How do you know how fast you're going?
This time you found out when it was too late.

I use the Gotway alarms and I also use Darknessbot to notify me at 40km/h with an alarm.
This way 2 beeps = 30-35km/h. 3 beeps = 35-40km/h. 3 beeps + Darknessbot alarm = 40km/h.
If I am doing over 40km/h constantly then I will set the Darknessbot alarm to 45. Darknessbot is my final alarm where I should back off.

Normally I have my phone in my hand and I will occasionally glance at WheelLog.  Normally I'm not going for speed, as I said, I go for what feels comfortable, which is usually between 12 and 25 mph, depending on where I am riding.

Is Darknessbot only for Apple?

[Mike Sacristan]

4 minutes ago, Catlord17 said:

The "whatever punishment was coming my way" would have taken me into a busy intersection.  I had a split second to assess the threat and I decided against going into a busy intersection, because the time to assess the situation was not there.  So it might have been just me riding with traffic through an intersection, and it might have been me going splat.  I try to avoid splatting on people's cars, so...

Then I understand! That information was not in your story only the fact that there was an intersection, not that it was a busy one.
Good call! No splatting. I would have done the same then. And also landed on my ass. 

You sound like a skillful and intelligent rider. Good to hear! I understand all your reasoning now behind your decisions.

The problem with the hard mode and braking upright is that the pedals don't assist us so we end up shifting too much weight to our heels with no cantilever. Soft mode would work better in that case.
So we need to find ways to get our center of gravity behind the wheel while keeping our feet flat. Lowering our center of gravity will cause more wobble in the beginning.
The tiltback on the MSX is a slow tilt and you can pass it by around 6km/h before the tilt gets too pronounced. And setting tiltback at 48km/h to get tilted at 52-53km/h... man I would need my diapers changed after that.

Darknessbot is only available for IOS but Android has Wheellog with similar functions I believe. It's always good to know when we are speeding.
I know it's just a matter of time before I raise my alarm to 45km/h.

Learning to ride backwards is good therapy as well once you pass the initial threshold of hopelessness.

I do 30 minutes of skill practice a day. Then some days I cruise and some days I don't.

 

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

The problem with the hard mode and braking upright is that the pedals don't assist us so we end up shifting too much weight to our heels with no cantilever. Soft mode would work better in that case.
So we need to find ways to get our center of gravity behind the wheel while keeping our feet flat. Lowering our center of gravity will cause more wobble in the beginning.

The front of the foot coming off the pedal has to be the most disconcerting feeling one can have on a wheel, and the two times that has happened to me has seen me wildly swinging my arms like a high diver accidentally getting unbalanced off the board. Due to those incidents I strictly clamp hard on the wheel when hard braking, speed wobbles and relaxed be damned.

I do suggest to the OP to practicing braking from say 15-20 mph, many times as hard as you dare, and you may be pleased just how shockingly hard your wheel is capable of stopping. It's about as good as a disc brake bicycle, but @Kuji Rolls shows how ludicrously out of balance you'll be staying on top of your wheel, and everyone has the same praying-mantis with arms waving wide and wildly look.

[kasenutty]

You're unscathed? That's a good crash, nice work 

[mrelwood]

Glad to hear that you survived practically unharmed!

6 hours ago, Catlord17 said:

And finally... the death wobbles... is it the wheel, or is my level of skill too low?

The MSX tends to wobble on me too when braking hard from high speed. One needs to be prepared and practice that specific situation for a bit. What works for me is to just lean on the side of the wheel with one leg only during fast braking. That prevents the wobbles.

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I will sometimes edge my feet forwards if the coast is clear so that I can hit a higher speed without leaning forward too much. But I do this knowing that my braking will be compromised

Foot positioning is indeed crucial, and the story sounds like he could’ve been standing a bit too much forward. The MSX requires so much lean for fast acceleration and braking, that despite me being 193cm tall and weighing 92kg I would like to stand too much forward to feel effortless acceleration. But as mentioned by Mike, the braking ability plummets very fast this way. When off-roading steep inclines, I move atleast one of my feet forward an inch. Same for steep declines, up to one inch backwards. When speeding on level ground I make sure that I’m not forward from my center position (balanced effort between braking and acceleration).

For me the soft mode tilts too much for fast braking. I feel that I can’t lift my toes any more higher, and that I’d soon be on my butt. Medium mode has a good balance of stability and braking/acceleration assist for me though.

[Catlord17]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

The front of the foot coming off the pedal has to be the most disconcerting feeling one can have on a wheel, and the two times that has happened to me has seen me wildly swinging my arms like a high diver accidentally getting unbalanced off the board. Due to those incidents I strictly clamp hard on the wheel when hard braking, speed wobbles and relaxed be damned.

I do suggest to the OP to practicing braking from say 15-20 mph, many times as hard as you dare, and you may be pleased just how shockingly hard your wheel is capable of stopping. It's about as good as a disc brake bicycle, but @Kuji Rolls shows how ludicrously out of balance you'll be staying on top of your wheel, and everyone has the same praying-mantis with arms waving wide and wildly look.

I'm actually quite good at hard braking up to around 15 mph, and I agree with you as to how good the wheel is at braking hard, which may be why and how I overestimated my ability to brake hard at that speed; I had no idea I was going that fast.  It's never happened before that I felt comfortable doing over 25 mph; I thought I was doing about 20-25, although even that wouldn't have been a fun crash.  I definitely need more skill training.  And more time in which to do it!  

[Catlord17]

59 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

You're unscathed? That's a good crash, nice work 

I wouldn't exactly call it "unscathed" when I take my clothes off and my girlfriend reacts with shock and horror at how my injury looks.  But compared to what I could have done, we'll say I was "lightly scathed".  

[Catlord17]

52 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Glad to hear that you survived practically unharmed!

The MSX tends to wobble on me too when braking hard from high speed. One needs to be prepared and practice that specific situation for a bit. What works for me is to just lean on the side of the wheel with one leg only during fast braking. That prevents the wobbles.

Foot positioning is indeed crucial, and the story sounds like he could’ve been standing a bit too much forward. The MSX requires so much lean for fast acceleration and braking, that despite me being 193cm tall and weighing 92kg I would like to stand too much forward to feel effortless acceleration. But as mentioned by Mike, the braking ability plummets very fast this way. When off-roading steep inclines, I move atleast one of my feet forward an inch. Same for steep declines, up to one inch backwards. When speeding on level ground I make sure that I’m not forward from my center position (balanced effort between braking and acceleration).

For me the soft mode tilts too much for fast braking. I feel that I can’t lift my toes any more higher, and that I’d soon be on my butt. Medium mode has a good balance of stability and braking/acceleration assist for me though.

That is very interesting information about foot position, I will have to try that.  Fortunately within the next 48 hours I'll be finished with my current project and free to take a few days off to rest, so I should have time to practice this new stuff you guys have been showing me.  

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Sit backwards in an invisible chair?

This is another great point from Mike that mustn’t go unnoticed. Sitting down a bit while braking boosts your braking power a good bit. While @Catlord17 you practice hard braking, take this in your arsenal as well. As you brake, sit down slowly, and you should be able find the amount of sitting that works for you.

[Guest PogArt Artur]

12 hours ago, Catlord17 said:

Thanks guys.  I appreciate your time and any responses.

What a story!

I'm glad the tale ends with you in one piece, though

That's a great lesson of respecting those devices, isn't it...

The EUCs can do speeds,sharp turns, tricks , but we are the ones, who should think ahead  

[handrieu]

My 2 cents: don't ride tired or distracted. Your mind needs to be in the ride in order to react in case of anything unexpected.

I've had some fairly unpleasant falls but protective gear saved me (I only use a bicycle helmet and the wrist guards but they protect the essentials).

[macrhino]

WOW. I thought I was alone. I too live in Port St. Lucie. I have never seen a EUC other than mine.