FrankFilmer Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Micheal Shen said: Cutout: wheel is power off? or just motor lose power? Power off. Still won't power on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 To be honest I am but a rookie on these things. Still trying to gain knowledge why things happen as the do when going wrong. Since you are going downhill I guess holding back speed would make into to dynamo mode charging the battery. If that then hit a bad cell that cannot be charged or the bms/control board have a faulty component it might put too much stress/heat on it to finally kick over to permanent fault or a blown fuse. I guess a breaking recharge could reach the power of a fast charger trigger same problem you had with the fast charger? I still think having ewheels looking at it is the smart move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted July 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/4/2019 at 7:45 AM, Unventor said: Since you are going downhill I guess holding back speed would make into to dynamo mode charging the battery. If that then hit a bad cell that cannot be charged or the bms/control board have a faulty component it might put too much stress/heat on it to finally kick over to permanent fault or a blown fuse. It's rather unlikely to blow fuse during regenerative braking, because EUC motor have less efficiency as a generator. Some part of braking power is directly dissipated as heat inside motor. Rest is delivered to battery, but doesn't exceed nominal EUC power (and usually is far below this value), so battery current is less than fuse rated current. I've just checked in euc.world database and maximum, ever recorded peak braking current was 31.5 A on a Z10. But it was a single, momentary peak - usually braking currents doesn't exceed 20 A. And as EUC battery consists of several paralell strings of cells (six in case of XL), even with one cell failure the whole battery will be capable of consuming braking current. Personally from what @FrankFilmer wrote I suspect wiring or electronics failure. And quick charger failure is completely unlinked to this issue, as BMS doesn't influence charger output voltage. There was already few reports about failures of quick chargers on this forum. If there would be a problem within battery preventing it to charge above 70 %, stock charger would also not charge it above this level. Sh*t happens, unfortunately I'm very curious about @Jason McNeil findings. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) On 7/4/2019 at 5:26 AM, Rywokast said: aah.. i did indeed misunderstand you, because you said "Wheel still spins..." hard to do if it doesnt power on at all. hmmm, well in any case youre lucky you got it from jason, be sure to let us know what it is im very interested to know Checking if the wheel spins is a way to possibly determine mosfet damage. If it doesn't spin (easily) powered off, ie. it brakes constantly, there are two (or all three) motor phases shorted together (usually over failed mosfets). But even if it does spin, doesn't mean there's not mosfet damage, if the mosfets have failed so that they're not in short circuit or have blown their legs off Edited July 5, 2019 by esaj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 hours ago, esaj said: Checking if the wheel spins is a way to possibly determine mosfet damage. If it doesn't spin (easily) powered off, ie. it brakes constantly, there are two (or all three) motor phases shorted together (usually over failed mosfets). But even if it does spin, doesn't mean there's not mosfet damage, if the mosfets have failed so that they're not in short circuit or have blown their legs off really? i havent ever heard that.. didnt know spinning the wheel by hand could be hindered while it was off O.o interesting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted July 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Rywokast said: really? i havent ever heard that.. didnt know spinning the wheel by hand could be hindered while it was off O.o interesting When motor windings are short by something (usually by burnt MOSFETs), trying to rotate it by hand will cause current to flow within shorted winding that will counteract rotation. You can try with any electric motor - just short all wires together and try to rotate the motor axle. It will be significantly harder to turn it compared to situation in which motor wires are isolated from each other. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Seba said: When motor windings are short by something (usually by burnt MOSFETs), trying to rotate it by hand will cause current to flow within shorted winding that will counteract rotation. You can try with any electric motor - just short all wires together and try to rotate the motor axle. It will be significantly harder to turn it compared to situation in which motor wires are isolated from each other. interesting, learn something new every day lol.. i assumed that it would just have zero resistance, dont know much of anything about electric motors 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supafast Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 6:31 PM, FrankFilmer said: Here is a recent screen grab of wheelog that shows 23 miles ridden and almost 50% battery remaining. I'm a big guy and I've been pulling off 40+ mile rides frequently so I really don't think battery issues is it. i'm glad you are alright. I received my ks18xl few days ago. I hope this is not its MTBF. I'm very concerned. I will make sure to monitor stats past 1500mi - 1900mi mileage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankFilmer Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, Supafast said: i'm glad you are alright. I received my ks18xl few days ago. I hope this is not its MTBF. I'm very concerned. I will make sure to monitor stats past 1500mi - 1900mi mileage. Thanks much. It's been a couple weeks now. Stitches are removed, swelling and bruising is gone, and my wrist and shoulder are improving every day. I've never been one for tattoos but I'll consider these scars on my head to be my EUC equivalent. Jason has the wheel now and I will update everyone here when I find out more about how and why it failed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Wow, just wow. I had the impression that kingsongs were bulletproof. Thank you for posting this and providing such good details. This is an inevitable failure mode we all kind of refuse to acknowledge. Impressed that you haven’t given up on EUCs entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankFilmer Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) On 7/21/2019 at 11:30 AM, chrisjunlee said: Impressed that you haven’t given up on EUCs entirely. Thanks much Chris. I actually just got back on the horse a couple days ago. (the horse being a new MSX modded with Nikola superstretch pedals) It's something I think that will take a bit of time but inevitably I should be able to regain my original confidence. You've gotta think ...what are the odds my number will come up again? Especially if I use common sense by not ignoring ANY odd behavior or strange sounds coming from my wheel in the future. This rule will be much easier to follow now that I own 2 top end wheels to be able to trade out and keep my wheel addiction fed. It really is considered a freakish occurrence for cutouts to ever happen to a modern wheel. Edited July 22, 2019 by FrankFilmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankFilmer Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) Wheel Status Update: @Jason McNeil has recently informed me that he will be flying it back to King Song HQ to do forensics. I'll be sure everyone is updated through this thread as more info becomes available. Edited July 22, 2019 by FrankFilmer 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 This thread is old but I am curious. What was the final outcome to this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryptych Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/7/2020 at 6:25 PM, Paradoxedgewater said: This thread is old but I am curious. What was the final outcome to this? I am also curious, specifically I'd like to know if you are smarter now and wear a helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Come on Frank... what were the results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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