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Q: best tiny one/two wheel vehicle for special purpose

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1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said:

That will do exactly nothing.  You need a real outlet to charge a ridable. 100+ Watts (and that is about the slowest charger) is not going to work on 12V.  Not that you'd need it, but looks like you can't charge the ridable in the plane.

Also, ignore Bob.  Often he just posts non-sequiturs, but this time he is unusually hostile, not sure why.  :)

I'm not surprised to learn the 12V outlets are useless as chargers.  But I agree ... I should not need to charge it with the airplane since I don't need much range.

I wonder whether my provisional decision to carry smaller, lighter fuel bladders (only 18~20 pounds each) will change the dynamics and advice.

Yeah, Bob is ... strange.  And pathetic.  I have no idea why he is hostile.  Maybe he wishes he had an awesome bush plane like the Draco and lives vicariously through the Draco.  At least he has good taste, though personally I'd prefer a CarbonCub or Kitfox with 915iS engine if I didn't also want to fly seriously long range non-stop flights.  Nonetheless, very interesting Bob did indeed identify a truly awesome bush plane.  And he's also right about the price ... at over $600,000 (so I heard) the Draco cost just over three times what I spent, not counting the endless hours of work required to design, build, modify.

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I say the mten3 is too small for offroad. And certainly not very comfortable then, is it? Being (barely) able to do something is one thing, but the ride should also should be nice and pleasant to use (which also implies it is more robust and versatile).

It really depends on how offroad your situations will be. I expected the worst going by your wilderness pictures:) You could try renting one of those Lime etc. scooters (with small, hard wheels) and try it on grass to see how well it works (or doesn't work, probably).

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17 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Regarding the 3-wheeled scooter from Inmotion. It is not designed like a normal scooter and it is meant to turn by leaning which probably won't be very productive. It's a bit of a novelty scooter and it will behave more like a longboard with a handle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZUQkOQnqoo

A Xiaomi M365 standard or pro version would get the job done. Standard version is 12.5kg and foldable. Check out the dimensions and measure it up to see if it fits.

Also... an electric unicycle is incidentally a powered suitcase except it can't carry stuff inside of it but you could carry stuff on top of it and roll it with the trolly handle. Provided you could balance 20 litres on it and that might require some ingenuity.

When it comes to carrying stuff on an electric unicycle while riding it is a good idea to have the stuff being carried as close to the body as possible.  Preferably front to back instead of side to side. So a backpack and a "frontpack" would be a preferred solution than bags hanging to the sides. It will still require a lot of skill and you will risk falling on rough terrain.

I thought you were doing brilliantly at handling Bob but alas you fell into his trap.
Bob is Bob and means nothing bad. He is just Bob. You disarmed him quite well with your excellent explanations, youtube links, photos, etc which I found very informative.

Remember that you can ride the vehicle to where you are going for fuel. Then ride or walk it back.

 

Yes, this looks like an option.  I'd like to get the device below 12kg, but 12kg will work.

Your point about riding to the gas station, then pushing the "vehicle" back to the airplane with fuel on board is ... a very practical idea.  In retrospect, that should have been obvious!  Doh!

It should be possible to create a "frontpack" and "backpack" to carry a 10 liter fuel bladder in each.  This is one advantage of cutting the size down to 10 liter.  Much bigger and this would not be practical.  OTOH, on this scooter, I think the better idea is to attach some kind of box or cage or brace system to hold the fuel bladders on the floorboard.  That low center of gravity should work well.

I think you're right.  I should have quit while I was ahead with Bob.

I'm glad you enjoyed the videos and photos.  I wasn't sure whether providing that detail was in good form or not, since it is a bit outside the focus of this forum.  I have to admit I got a bit jazzed at the various tiny electric vehicles I've run into the past few days of research on this issue.  Many look like a great deal of fun ... and a lot cheaper than my airplane ... or any airplane!  Nonetheless, I'm still more jazzed about my airplane and flying than these very interesting vehicles.

If I can make one of the more fun vehicles work for fetching fuel, that will be a "two-fer", because I'll enjoy riding around on it too.  Unfortunately, it appears the least-fun of these vehicles may be more practical for my purpose.  Still, even the least-fun of these vehicles will still be fun.

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I rode mten3 and M365 and mten3 is much more stable offroad.

Though balancing with big weights may be easier on scooter...

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23 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Also here is the Mten3. With a trolley handle attached. Different wheels have different handles. Some have a scorpion type, some have a retractable one that goes in the exact top center of the unicycle. The ones with a rear trolley handle could be used to steer while walking and still balance something on top of it. Or some saddle bag configuration.

I have a Ninebot One E+ (electric unicycle). I have a 10kg kettlebell and a 12kg kettlebell. I can hop on tomorrow with the kettlebells and try it just to experience pure hell haha.

 

 

Yeah, that will be great ... to have a real test with realistic weights.

BTW, for size and scale:

  -  one of the 20 liter fuel bladders I found has a base that claims to be  ~8" x 10" ... and 16" tall.

  -  one of the 10 liter fuel bladders I found has a base that claims to be ~3" x 17" ... and 19" tall.

The following photo is one of the 10 liter fuel bladders.  As you see, it has a handle and cap (or spout) on top.

But there are fuel bladders of other shapes.

10_liter_fuel_bladder_0070usd.jpg

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said:

Go learn about the Rotax 912iS engine (and other 912 engines).  They prefer premium "mogas" == 91+ octane unleaded automobile gasoline.  I don't give a crap what some random document says.  BTW, the first line in the document says "must be done according to local airport safety regulations and rules".  Well, guess what?  I will NEVER put fuel into my airplane at an airport!  And since vanishingly few airports carry premium unleaded automobile gasoline, most bush pilots will not fuel at the airport either.  Therefore, the rules of some random airport somewhere have nothing to do with me.  That should be obvious, but you just don't get it.

Also, if you know anything about bush flying in Alaska, you would know two things.  First, pretty much anything goes (that works).  Second, they take responsibility for what they do (which first and foremost means "suffer the consequences" of any bad decision).

It is true that the Rotax 912iS will tolerate 100LL fuel.  But then you need to change the oil 2, 3, 4 times as often and perform a lot of other services much more often, because lead sludge builds up all over the place when you fuel with 100LL, and harms everything the fuel or oil touches.

So any owner of a Rotax 912 engine ... and a HUGE percentage of glider and pilot-built and experimental airplanes have a Rotax 912 engine ... does well to fuel his airplane with 91+ octane unleaded "mogas" (automobile gasoline).

Just because you can find a document that does not apply to my airplane or engine does not mean ... well ... anything.

Just for fun, go watch the video I posted where a whole slew of bush planes land at a Conoco gas station and Arby's ... and fill up from the gas pumps.  That's what I will be doing most of the time.  When I can't?  That's when I need to fill up fuel bladders at a gas station to take to my airplane.

Seriously, you might want to stop pretending to know things you don't know.  You are much too obvious, and much too hit and miss.  You did well with the Draco (awesome airplane), but otherwise you're usually missing the target by a country mile.

Maybe you should stick to EUCs and other small electric vehicles.

Watch and listen to the following videos for more information.  For a quick review, start watching at 16:15 of the first video.  They talk about fuel several places, but I'm not gonna spend over an hour finding every reference for you.  At 18:50 through 20:50 he describes how you need to do a lot more oil changes and other cleaning of your engine if you are stupid enough to run 100LL through your Rotax engine.  Listen to what he says at 19:20 for example.  Listen and learn.  And stop trying to tell me about airplanes.  I wouldn't listen to you if you knew what you were talking about.  And you don't.

 

 

 

Edited by bootstrap

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1 hour ago, bootstrap said:

I will NEVER put fuel into my airplane at an airport! 

Aren't you in the wrong forum for your special needs ?

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8 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said:

Aren't you in the wrong forum for your special needs ?

No.  And only you think so.

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The primary problem with the Mten3 in this case isn't even the 10" diameter wheel, it's the incredibly low pedal clearance.

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I'm somewhat with @Bob EisenmanEisenman on this one, maybe not the particulars but rather the whole scheme of things to fly a tiny airplane around inhospitable terrain, while refueling with possibly sketchy fuel.

It just seems ill-advised, but I do grant the appeal of flying around and enjoying the sights. I think the long-range requirements is what bothers me most, because the historical record is full of dead aviators who nodded off.

In my opinion, the solution is obvious, straightforward, cheap, safe, all-terrain, compact, and has redundancy (you can pedal the damned thing if you run out of electricity).

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radmini-electric-folding-fat-bike

You can put racks on this folding fat bike so you can safely carry your fuel bladders, and it also comes with lights.

However I wonder if an entirely different airplane...that of the paramotor...would also address your needs. You can pack a paramotor within a subcompact car.

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This is one of my favorite bush pilot videos.....I love those big tires and bouncy suspension

 

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3 hours ago, bootstrap said:

No.  And only you think so

A long time ago, around 2000, I had a lot of time on my hands to fly simulators (Microsoft and others). Refueling was as simple as a keypress. I flew once around the world in a variety of aircraft and learned to sleep before work while the autopilot did it's job. It was mostly boring but I took a bunch of screen grabs over a a few weeks time. Certainly not the real deal of ownership and maintainence and cost. Good luck with your new found contacts.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bob Eisenman said:

A long time ago, around 2000, I had a lot of time on my hands to fly simulators (Microsoft and others). Refueling was as simple as a keypress. I flew once around the world in a variety of aircraft and learned to sleep before work while the autopilot did it's job. It was mostly boring but I took a bunch of screen grabs over a a few weeks time. Certainly not the real deal of ownership and maintainence and cost. Good luck with your new found contacts.

Nice bush flying video, but probably from a decade ago or so, when I wasn't paying much attention to flying.  I don't recognize the names at the end is one hint.

I enjoy airplane waterskiing on lakes and rivers, but am a bit more wary of landing on sand and gravel bars like much of your video.  The main reason is, I always think my propeller is gonna throw up a pebble and gouge the surface of my brand new carbon fiber airplane.  Or worse ... get stuck in a control surface like rudder or elevator.  I more enjoy landing on mountain tops and mountain ridges... like a couple of the videos I posted show (one in the northern Nevada boonies and the other somewhere near Lake Tahoe).  I also like flying down canyons and past spires and cliffs.

I've designed 3D simulation and graphics engines (for games and scientific applications), but I just never got fascinated by 3D games or simulations myself.  I guess I got addicted to real reality at a young age, and just never came to appreciate the joys of... video games and similar.

My airplane has GPS, ADS-B out, ADS-B in, moving maps, synthetic vision and autopilot (and various other avionics goodies).  I'm sure the autopilot will come in handy when flying across thousands of kilometers of empty ocean.  There are even areas of the western states where autopilot makes flying more tolerable.  But seems I'm always headed to somewhere wild, crazy, insane geologically, plus I prefer to chart routes that take me past interesting geology along the way to the extent possible.  So except for long hauls, probably not that much autopilot for me during the coming months.

Edited by bootstrap

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, bootstrap said:

I've designed 3D simulation and graphics engines

You're bright and talented. Here is a years old flight simulator compilation and several screen grabs from a sim flight from Oakland to Honolulu. Sheer amateurism on my part by comparison. A cheap thrill from the boredom of rush hour commuting.

 

Oakland to HonoluluOakland to HonoluluOakland to HonoluluOakland to Honolulu

 

Edited by Bob Eisenman

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, bootstrap said:

Atacama Desert and Atacama Andes in southern Peru, northern Chile, southwest Bolivia and northwest Argentina

I was reading some time ago about lithium extraction from a salar in the Atacama desert in Chile. Seen at

23°35'00"S 68°22'32"W

Decimal

 -23.5833 -68.3755

   

On Google Earth. An article about it is


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1MS1L8

Maybe not your cup of tea for a flyover but local to me Chilean exported rock salt accounts for some of the winter road salt shipped to Boston and applied to the roads in the winter.

Reading about the Atacama desert I read about the lithium extraction process pits (multicolor) depicted here on Google Earth

Atacama Salar - lithium extraction

 

Evaporation, concentration , precipitation and other steps to increase the percent lithium in the slurry which is shipped elsewhere for processing (China?).

At the time I was reading about the industry Bolivia (other countries?) was debating about embracing the lithium extraction industry.

Edited by Bob Eisenman

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5 hours ago, bootstrap said:

Here are some Atacama photos to enjoy.  Remember, live and let live, and to each their own.  I understand most humans hate solitude and barren places, but I'm exactly the opposite.  One thing is for sure, you'll never see the Milky Way anywhere near as well anywhere else on the planet.  The Milky Way is so bright that much is in color like the photos.

For those who think I'm crazy ... you're not alone.  Most people have thought that about me for most of my life.  My attitude is ... you only live once.  Get the point?  Probably not, but that's okay.  I get the point.

You're talking to a bunch of mostly older guys one cut-out away from a face plant, so calling you crazy is a little bit of a pot-calling-kettle-black thing. I, for one, feel that the retirement years are probably the best time to take up those hobbies where outright death is one of the likelier Bad Day scenarios, especially if you've had a good run, have your affairs in order, etc.

So, yeah, I get it! I'm jealous, really. I, too, had looked into paramotoring a while ago. I gave up on the idea because I can't quite afford it, live in a crappy area for it, still have school-aged kids, only a small car, etc. I got into EUCs to distract me from the air, and because I figured I could do a lot more riding than I would ever be able to do flying. Check, and check!

But whatever your ultimate fuel-porting solution, you might consider an EUC for its intrinsic, grounded pleasures :). Perhaps it will evolve into a pushing/towing/one-way-sprinting component of your master plan.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, beast@tanagra said:

You're talking to a bunch of mostly older guys one cut-out away from a face plant, so calling you crazy is a little bit of a pot-calling-kettle-black thing. I, for one, feel that the retirement years are probably the best time to take up those hobbies where outright death is one of the likelier Bad Day scenarios, especially if you've had a good run, have your affairs in order, etc.

So, yeah, I get it! I'm jealous, really.  I, too, had looked into paramotoring a while ago. I gave up on the idea because I can't quite afford it, live in a crappy area for it, still have school-aged kids, only a small car, etc. I got into EUCs to distract me from the air, and because I figured I could do a lot more riding than I would ever be able to do flying. Check, and check!

But whatever your ultimate fuel-porting solution, you might consider an EUC for its intrinsic, grounded pleasures :). Perhaps it will evolve into a pushing/towing/one-way-sprinting component of your master plan.

Well, I'll give you a hint.  Got my pilot certificate in 1977.  :-o  Okay, I was young when I got my certificate, but still.  So yeah, I agree.  Why not enjoy life when the alternative is waiting to die.  I sure as hell worked more than long and hard enough to earn some fun at this point.

If I wasn't gonna fly ... or paramotor ... I'd probably just get back into riding motorcycle.  EUC and onewheel look like a lot of fun too.  Actually, if I was to move back to Wailea, Maui where I lived most of the past 25 years, EUC or onewheel would be awesome to wander the golf courses (on the paths or grass) where I used to walk at night (and play golf much less often)... plus the traffic was pretty slow and the roads had wide shoulders and/or bike paths almost everywhere.  Which vehicle is best probably depends on where you are (the local layout and terrain and traffic).

I might see how well I can do without a vehicle.  Especially with smaller (10 liter) fuel bladders (?or even smaller?), if I find I rarely need to go very far, walking works.  Or, if I really want to make myself look stupid (and make Bob very happy), I could push a really lightweight baby stroller around with the fuel bladders on the seat.  Right?  Hahaha.  Talk about looking silly!!!   :-)

So yeah, maybe I'll try to do without a motorized vehicle, and maybe without any vehicle at all.  If I find that has me taking much longer walks than I want more often than I like, then revisit this question again.  Truth is, the more space I have in the cargo area, the more other goodies I can bring along.  Plus, who knows.  Maybe if I stick out my thumb I can hitch a ride back to the airplane.  It's been a long time since I hitched a ride, but I don't mind finding out.  Since I'll always be in [very] rural areas, maybe the odds of getting a lift aren't that bad.  Not that I know after so many years.

If you're in Arizona, you should get me to fly you around sometime.  The only thing better than spending a fortune to buy an airplane is... having a friend who already spent the big bucks, so you can enjoy flying now and then for pocket change or "gas money".  At 50mpg and burning automobile gasoline rather than aviation fuel, a 500 mile round trip isn't that expensive (10 gallons @ $4/gal == $40 ... not so bad).  The ability to fly relatively cheap is part of the reason I chose this airplane.  I spend my time mostly in Sedona area, southern Utah, and Oregon.  By the end of this month I should be flying 200, 300, 500, 1000 mile round-trip missions 2+ times a week.

Looks like only you and tessa25 are anywhere near me.

I am surprised most EUC fans (here) are old farts!  I figured most were teens.  Hahaha.

Edited by bootstrap

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, bootstrap said:

old farts!  I figured most were teens.  Hahaha.

Whatareyoutalkingabout??!!!  :)

Old teens, and teens full of attitude!

65 year old crazy old teen here! Retired and having the fun of his life!

1731996864_topofpedal.gif.c3613aed26e113d4af2645762bd7bfc0.gif

Dabbled in aviation too...

So far enjoyed reading your posts. Kudo's! :cheers:

Edited by pico

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13 hours ago, bootstrap said:

f you're in Arizona, you should get me to fly you around sometime.  The only thing better than spending a fortune to buy an airplane is... having a friend who already spent the big bucks, so you can enjoy flying now and then for pocket change or "gas money".  At 50mpg and burning automobile gasoline rather than aviation fuel, a 500 mile round trip isn't that expensive (10 gallons @ $4/gal == $40 ... not so bad).  The ability to fly relatively cheap is part of the reason I chose this airplane.  I spend my time mostly in Sedona area, southern Utah, and Oregon.  By the end of this month I should be flying 200, 300, 500, 1000 mile round-trip missions 2+ times a week.

Looks like only you and tessa25 are anywhere near me.

I'm more south, in the East Valley (Greater Phoenix area), but if it ever seems I might cross paths with you, I might take you up on that offer :).

Sedona is pretty great. Been wanting to take my wheels up there at some point.

There are at least a few other riders around Phoenix, and several more down in Tucson, but I've yet to encounter another EUC in wild, except for on a recent trip to Paris, where I saw several.

 

13 hours ago, bootstrap said:

I am surprised most EUC fans (here) are old farts!  I figured most were teens.  Hahaha.

The US EUC ridership seems to skew older, especially as compared to Asia, but I feel like this is starting to shift.

 

13 hours ago, bootstrap said:

Got my pilot certificate in 1977.  :-o  Okay, I was young when I got my certificate, but still. 

So, wow, I may have literally been in diapers at the time. I'm not as old as I feel sometimes, hehe.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2019 at 3:41 PM, beast@tanagra said:

I'm more south, in the East Valley (Greater Phoenix area), but if it ever seems I might cross paths with you, I might take you up on that offer :).

Sedona is pretty great. Been wanting to take my wheels up there at some point.

There are at least a few other riders around Phoenix, and several more down in Tucson, but I've yet to encounter another EUC in wild, except for on a recent trip to Paris, where I saw several.

 

The US EUC ridership seems to skew older, especially as compared to Asia, but I feel like this is starting to shift.

 

So, wow, I may have literally been in diapers at the time. I'm not as old as I feel sometimes, hehehe.

Well, next time you're in the mood to visit Sedona, let me know.  We can arrange a time and place for you to laugh your ass off watching me try to pretend I can control your EUC.  If you can wait until near the end of the month or so, we should be able to do some flying too.  Lots of bike paths and sidewalks around Sedona.  Not sure about big grass fields though.  But I'm sure there must be a couple schools in town, right?  I don't recall seeing any, but they must exist.  Right?

Maybe the reason the age skews to "above teens" is ... older folks more often research what to buy and how to control before they dive in and buy and "drive".  Whereas younger folks tend to buy what is popular or what their friends have (without [much] research), and just "go for it" or mimic their friends.  Or, my guess could be totally full of BS.

Well, actually, I'm only 14.  I mean, my last birthday was my 14th.

Strange what happens when you're born on February 29, huh?

Edited by bootstrap
fix typos

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On 7/3/2019 at 2:27 AM, pico said:

Whatareyoutalkingabout??!!!  :)

Old teens, and teens full of attitude!

65 year old crazy old teen here! Retired and having the fun of his life!

1731996864_topofpedal.gif.c3613aed26e113d4af2645762bd7bfc0.gif

Dabbled in aviation too...

So far enjoyed reading your posts. Kudo's! :cheers:

Damn, with that trim figure, you look like a teen to me.  Can't see your face very well though.

The giveaway is ... you're wearing gloves like a prudent old fart.  No, I mean senior citizen.  No, I mean ... adult?  Oh, never mind me.

Given that I'm only 14 now, I'm either in my late childhood... or my second childhood.  What's the difference and who cares, right?

Plus, at age 4, I decided to never grow up.  I definitely kept that promise!  Hahaha.

I figure ... we only live twice.  Right?

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Draco crash. "The harder they fall"...

The owner is a good sport...and lucky.

 

Edited by pico

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