Chased By A Collie, Herding Dog in Golden Gate Park

[Scubadragonsan]

Heads up everyone,

Just want to let you know about my confrontation with a Collie dog owner. He and his female friend usually comes out to unleash his Collie around 6pm in the amphitheater area. I usually don't have problem with the dog chasing me and my wheel from past encounters. Being herded by a dog is not exactly how I looked at it.  Anyway, yesterday this dog was chasing me up to the road, the female owner was screaming for her dog, then the male owner screamed at me to stop from behind. His dog ran across the street after some skateboarders and almost could have been run over by a tour bus and cars. The male owner was very pissed off blaming me for leading his dog into being run over by vehicles. I told him it's against the rules to have his dog unleashed. He didn't reason with me and just kept cussing. He accused me of endangering his dog when in fact, his unleashing and out-of-control dog was endangering his own dog and me. A brief description of this couple: They are Asians, may be Filipinos or Chinese, about 5'8 to 5'9, skinny. 

Moving on to how to deal with this couple next time besides self-defense when necessary:

1) Take pictures of them and their dog 2) A short video of his dog running off leash 3) let their dog run after my wheel to far, far away land 4) Call park ranger 5) Call Police 6) Call SPCA 

This couple are regular there and so am I.  I expect to confront them again if they don't leash their dog. 

Actual subjects may differ from photos!

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Scubadragonsan

[LanghamP]

You do not have to reason with dog owners. You just tell them, "I don't care about your dog."

It is entirely up to the owners of they care enough about their dog to keep it leashed, or don't care enough for you to lead it on a merry chase.

Personally, I have been in this almost exact situation with my wheel with two unleashed pitbulls, and what I did was slow down just enough for them to catch up, then speed up, and in this way continue until we were many miles away (4?). These two dogs had chased me several times before, and after this event I never saw those two dogs again.

[philippe_kruse]

As a dog owner it makes me sad to read this. It is NOT the dog's fault that he runs after you, it's his normal behaviour. I do not think it's fair to punish the dog, and potentially let it get hurt or hit by a car, so you can win a "point" against these people.

So by all means, stop and take photos, report to the police etc, but don't bring the dog into any harm intentionally.

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by philippe_kruse

[Smoother]

On 6/22/2019 at 7:20 PM, philippe_kruse said:

As a dog owner it makes me sad to read this. It is NOT the dog's fault that he runs after you, it's his normal behaviour. I do not think it's fair to punish the dog, and potentially let it get hurt or hit by a car, so you can win a "point" against these people.

So by all means, stop and take photos, report to the police etc, but don't bring the dog into any harm intentionally.

 

 

Yes, but if it teaches the owner a lesson then the ends justify the means  "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness"  Can't have any of that with a dog of unknown viciousness chasing you.  Dog owners are legally required to keep their dogs under control.  The rest of us have NO responsibility for someone else's dog if they chose not to exercise adequate or the bare minimum legal responsibility themselves.  

Besides, if it is the dogs' "normal behavior" as you put it, then the onus on the owner to behave accordingly is doubled.  If the owner is ready to accept that the dog could run after a fast moving individual then it's their problem not the moving , innocent third party.  No sympathy here, sorry.

Why should someone risk falling off (have you tried taking photos backwards on a fast moving EUC?) or get bitten and fall off,  And if you try to photo the owners you will probably be assaulted (people doing wrong don't like their photos taken) and around here, calling the police will get you nowhere.  nuisance dog is not on their list of crimes they must keep on top of to maintain their crime statistics. They may show up 3 hours later; Who's going to wait for that? Certainly not the dog owner  We ride EUCs for speed not to sit for hours waiting for the police.

Personally I'm sick of having to compensate for and put up with peoples dogs, because they themselves are ass holes who couldn't give a shit about anyone else but themselves and their precious f..ing dog(s).

Responsible dog owners I have no issue with.

[Smoother]

15 minutes ago, rwent1 said:

One word -- GoPro. Nothing backs up your case better, especially these days, than having a video of what happened, especially when someone is on camera raving with some lunatic argument. People also tend to calm down really quickly when they know they're on camera.

But lets keep in mind the bigger picture. EUCs, and PEVs in general, are still in the very early stages of general acceptance (ie public ignorance and biases abound) yet it's these same people that are going to want to have a say in our legal status, especially here in the US where this is still being defined by a thousand different jurisdictions (federal, state, county, and city).

Don't forget that "public ignorance and biases" are what brought us the "red flag traffic laws" (Google it, for an eye-rolling laugh), so we could easily be legislated out of existence if we don't try to shape the public perception of EUCs. Don't think we could get "red flag" laws today? Just look at the new Canadian drone restrictions and how many jurisdictions here in the US are outlawing electric scooters. I've had people say that my EUC is an electric scooter and/or that it's a "motorized vehicle" that can't be ridden on multi-use bike paths. Yes, this couple was completely irresponsible and wrong, but no doubt there are a lot of ignorant dog owners who'll empathize with them. 

So, as much as it's not nearly as satisfying, I'd recommend just stopping, start recording, and try to have a reasonable conversation with the owners. The video will prove that you are  the "adult in the room", especially if the cops do get called -- they'll just be there to diffuse the situation and figure out who's violated any laws/ordinances. Besides, if these really are herding dogs then they'll stop chasing when you stop -- it's just their nature.

All quite reasonable, but we do not live in a reasonable world anymore, and @LanghamP was being chased by Pitbulls....not herding dogs.. biting, tearing, ripping dogs, if they are after you.  And as for reasoning with an angry dog owner, forget about it.  Their precious poochie is one of the family; they will not hear anything bad said about it or their handling of the situation.  People who act irresponsibly also tend act unreasonably, they simply can't see anyone else's point of view. ,So nothing you say will be heard, and you will only get more frustrated, and there's only so much frustration through ignorance I can stand before I want to start moving some furniture.  Keep moving, or turn and defend yourself, but engaging with the owners is a hiding to nothing.  Their only raison d'etra is protecting their precious little poochie, you and your rights don't count.  That's the nature of the world these days, "It's all about me".  You can't reason with people who are not reasonable, so why try?

I have no intention of waiting for the police to decide who is in the right. What if they decide against me because they too are dog lovers?  No thank you.   I want to get on with my life, not try and right every wayward dog owner where I ride.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Smoother

[LanghamP]

@Smootheris right. It's extremely hard to change people's minds when doing so requires even a slight change to their lifestyle. Hostile dog owners want to keep their dogs free, and you're interfering with their rights.

I've been bitten a few times before, on my bicycle, always right on the damned heel/Achilles tendon. Carrying pepper spray is a must, but something I often forget to do.

Interestingly, there's another (unleashed) pitbull that my bike club often goes by, and this dog mewls pathetically unless we stop. Later the owner came out, and introduced this dog as "Babygirl".

I'm thinking if you call your dog Babygirl, and treat her as such, that dog will be as far away from a pitbull as you can imagine. There's not the slightest trace of danger from this particular pitbull. That's the exception; pitbulls are exhausting, and seem overrepresented in chasing us.

[Marty Backe]

Absolutely ridiculous that the owner expected you to alter your behavior to protect the dog. Sure, obviously don't run over the dog, but nobody is under an obligation to stop their car, bike, whatever, to protect the animal. People can be strange sometimes 

[seage]

I personally love border collies. One of my favorite dogs. And they'll herd you for sure, they love it. But yeah, its not your fault that their down takes off after people. They're complete morons for having their dog off the leash beside a main road with moving cars with a dog they havent even trained enough to heel. Im certain you're not the only person this dog chases after. My old border collie was wild when she was young. She would run off and not come back, so, she was on her leash, lol.. Unless we were in an enclosed area with no roads around then yeah, she could do what she wanted. But anyone with a brain or even an inkling of common sense or CARE for their pet, would never unleash them near a road. Thats just irresponsible. 

Some people shouldnt have pets. 

And @philippe_kruse i dont think the OP is purposefully going to lead the dog into danger. They're just saying, if they get chased again (which seems like it WILL happen) that they'll film the dog so they have proof for authorities if it comes to that (or organically adopt the dog, since it doesnt seem to care about its owners anyways). Nothing about endangering the dog. Scuba didn't seem to have any issues with the dog, period, or else they wouldnt have stopped. I know if there was a big ass angry dog chasing me and the owners were like "STOP!" id keep going, because im not trying to get torn apart. 

[Michael Vu]

Yes it's 100% on the owners to properly leash their dog since they are ultimately responsible. Where I'm at, if an unleashed dog attacks a pedestrian then that dog can be legally euthanized. So next time this happens to you, just be ready to call the cops if the owners keep on trying to admit fault on you especially if something happens to their dog.   

[litewave]

Love the photo of the border collie, but that fence should be electrified.

[Issah]

I've been given the stinky eye from a few dog owners whose dogs were not disciplined enough to stay unleashed when I came driving near. If your dog barks or runs after me on my Msx it's your issue, not mine.

[ir_fuel]

Dogs ... I hate them because of their owners. 

Been chased numerous times when on my wheel. I had a collision with one once because it ran in front of my wheel. I had a few nasty encounters when flying with my drone (I had goggles on and the drone was in the sky. Lot's of fun when 4 big dogs come running your way and you can't even move because you are piloting a uav. Still have the video of that), had a dog come to me once when flying and it just peed on my backpack, and let's not mention all those dogs that start barking like crazy when you pass their house/garden on the street.

And it's always the same story. Owners are completely out of control but let their dogs run around without a leash. Once they start running they shout but the dog ignores it completely, and you do not know if the dog will just sniff and be nice, or if it will attack you, so what do you do?

I regularly do EUC trips with my daughter and I am hyper cautious around dogs. I taught her to unmount as soon as she sees a dog without a leash, and even with leash she should slow down. You can see she got a bit afraid because of my "teachings", but better be too careful than have a 7 year old seriously hurt herself because she panics or because a dog jumps in front of her wheel.

 

BTW just wondering. Can you easily out"race" a dog with an euc? How fast can they run? 

[ir_fuel]

On 6/22/2019 at 8:20 PM, philippe_kruse said:

As a dog owner it makes me sad to read this. It is NOT the dog's fault that he runs after you, it's his normal behaviour. I do not think it's fair to punish the dog, and potentially let it get hurt or hit by a car, so you can win a "point" against these people.

True, it's not fair.

Being chased and potentially seriously injured by an unknown dog isn't fair either. Will you risk your limbs just so you can be "fair" towards a dog? The last thing I will do in such a scenario is stop and take photos. Any idea how unrealistic that is? And then they bite in your leg, but hey, at least you have a nice photo of that dog! With a bit of luck the owner runs off with his dogs and you are left with a bust leg and no useful evidence. 

In that case I would use the cliché "life isn't fair either" and if it means the dog will get hurt or worse, well so be it. I consider my own wellbeing more important than that of a completely unknown animal.

Let's not even get started about when that dog decides to chase your own child.... 

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

just wondering. Can you easily out"race" a dog with an euc? How fast can they run? 

You can't outrun a dog, maybe the smaller ones but even then you're at the near max speed of an MSuper. It's not even close for the bigger dogs.

What you can do it sudden S turns, back and forth, and every time you do so the dog slows down, and in this way you can extend. For some reason dogs point at where you are and not where you will be.

And you're absolutely right about the owner shouting uselessly.

[Rywokast]

just ignore them completely and carry about your business.. ive had plenty of dogs chase me, luckily theyve always been leashed.. but if the owner doesnt care enough about their pet to properly train them or have them leashed how is that my problem

[Hatchet]

If a dog chases me aggressively try to just out ride it, but if a dog bites me it's going to regret it about 30 seconds before the owner does. 

[gon2fast]

I got chased by a car of interested pedestrians on Sunday and ended up with a broken arm. Dogs are not so bad, lol.  

[seage]

13 hours ago, gon2fast said:

I got chased by a car of interested pedestrians on Sunday and ended up with a broken arm. Dogs are not so bad, lol.  

Nah. You dont get to stop here. Its story time. Spill it...

[Smoother]

@Bob Eisenman just posted a prison story on the video thread.

This is a quote from the murderer:

"Today, almost 20 years after the murder, she has no regrets. “I would do the exact same thing again,” she tells me. “If they let me out and somebody messed with my animals, I would shoot him too. Him or her.”

Apparently he poised her dogs; but because he's dead we don't know why, or if it's even true.  I do know this though; people don't poison dogs that aren't driving them crazy; it's an imprisonable  offence.  She also mentions that someone poisoned her dog when she was younger.  Are you spotting a theme here?  I'm hearing a pet absorbed owner whose pets are so badly behaved it drives people (multiple) to go to the extreme act of poisoning them.  But she would never see it like that.  Read the quote again.

This is why I said that you're on a hiding to nothing trying to reason with the owner of a badly behaved dog.  Where do you think the dog got the behavior from in the first place?

here's the link.  it's a good read, if you like who dunits, although, who dunit is spelled out at the start.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-jailhouse-confessions-of-the-female-grifter-who-beheaded-a-korean-war-vet/amp

Edited June 26, 2019 by Smoother

[LanghamP]

5 hours ago, Smoother said:

Today, almost 20 years after the murder, she has no regrets. “I would do the exact same thing again,” she tells me. “If they let me out and somebody messed with my animals, I would shoot him too. Him or her.”

I didn't like the way she had several justifications to killing Jack, enough that one would almost think she killed him as a form of self-defense. The draining of his bank account, and willing his property to her, and spending said money on the day of his murder might point to something other than self-defense. When you add up the legal costs, the insurance fraud for burning down his house, the investigative cost of many police officer, the wildness searches for the body, and so on, the destruction of resources has to be several million dollars.

Almost as costly as a tractor trailer jackknifing into a half dozen cars...almost but not quite.

[Gazza-usa]

So I had my first EUC dog encounter today.  Little black yippie dog was off the leash and the owner shouted after the dog but the dog was having none of it and decided to chase me.  I was on a cycle path so no road problems.  I did what I do on a motorcycle.  You let the dog get close and the  you accelerate away from them.  Dogs are typically stupid as far as judging speed.  They fix on a point and then chase to that point.  If you let them fix on you and let them get reasonably close and then accelerate away their small brains don't have enough time to re-fix and you will very likely out run them.  I did exactly this.  Yippie gave up...

 

BTW, this knowledge was all from motorcycle training and talking to other motorcyclists and tyre chasing dogs.  Thought I'd share.

 

However it was totally the owners fault as dogs are not allowed off leash where I live and on the cycle paths (for this exact reason!!).

 

Stupid owners....

Edited October 8, 2019 by Gazza-usa