My updated comparison of PEVs: EUCs vs Onewheel XR vs electric skateboards

[Kens]

11 minutes ago, Jim Martin said:

 

 

[Darrell Wesh]

@Jim Martin

Here’s a video of a 30mph crash on a section of road that an 18” EUC wouldn’t even know was irregular. 

Top speeds on eskatebords above 25mph is a waste. You can’t even regularly reach those without spotters checking the terrain or you knowing the road by heart. That’s why Lacroix itself doesn’t list top speeds and even says 

• Max speed; don't attempt it unless you wear full body protection on a closed course, safe environment. No Joke. 

[Michael Vu]

2 hours ago, Jim Martin said:

You must not have seen the Lacroix boards.  They can hit close to 50 MPH and a range of 80 miles.  Also, I hardly find eskateboards hard to maneuver.  Just like anything, it takes time to master.

In this discussion we are comparing PEVs to each other and in comparing maneuverability, EUCs are hands-down more maneuverable than e-skateboards. Period. It doesn't matter if you personally feel like skareboards are "easy" to turn on. I've ridden with e-skateboarders and every time when we hit "tight" turns (90 degrees or so) on sidewalks, all the e-skateboards have to get stop and get off otherwise they will roll into the grass or railing while I handle it just fine on my EUC. Below is an example of what I'm talking about.

I would like to see you make those two 90-degree turns on your Lacroix. But even if you barely can do it without touching the grass, it still stands that an EUC would maneuver this much better than any board-with-4-wheels can.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Michael Vu

[who_the]

3 hours ago, Michael Vu said:

I would like to see you make those two 90-degree turns on your Lacroix.

PREACH! 

And that's not a knock, it's just the truth. 

[SanDiegoGuy]

I have the Onewheel XR, the Evolve Bamboo GTX all terrain wheels, and the Z10.

After I got the Z10, the Onewheel XR and the Evolve Bamboo GTX went into the garage collecting dust up to this day.

 

I guess I have to go into the garage now and charge up those two devices so the battery would not be totally dead, or it might already since it has been so long.

[photorph]

19 hours ago, Jim Martin said:

Are you going to get one of the new Lacroix boards?  I have 3 onewheel's, an evolve GT Carbon, and 4 EUCs.  I'm thinking hard about picking up a new Lonestar or Naz.  I think the Lacroix would be great to have on our big Dallas Onewheel/EUC rides where we go about 30+ miles at night through Dallas.  Still really learning the EUC so don't take it on the group rides and always take my OW XR, but speed and distance limitations are annoying.  The Lonestar would put the EUCs & OWs to shame with a speed/range capabilities.

One of the first pre-orders.  I went with nazare, because the lonestar has a few negatives vs the Nazare, (bulkier enclosure, 10 more lbs, 2x the charge time, and higher ride height).  I won't be riding more than 37 miles in one go anyway on a board.  The only reason to get lonestar would be if you really plan on riding 40+ miles in one go.  Either the lonestar or nazare will destory any euc in acceleration and top speed, heck even my prototipo lacroix DSS50+ does.  

[photorph]

13 hours ago, Michael Vu said:

In this discussion we are comparing PEVs to each other and in comparing maneuverability, EUCs are hands-down more maneuverable than e-skateboards. Period. It doesn't matter if you personally feel like skareboards are "easy" to turn on. I've ridden with e-skateboarders and every time when we hit "tight" turns (90 degrees or so) on sidewalks, all the e-skateboards have to get stop and get off otherwise they will roll into the grass or railing while I handle it just fine on my EUC. Below is an example of what I'm talking about.

I would like to see you make those two 90-degree turns on your Lacroix. But even if you barely can do it without touching the grass, it still stands that an EUC would maneuver this much better than any board-with-4-wheels can.

This would be easily possible with double kingpin trucks on something like the evolve GTR.  They can make 90 degree turns easily.  Of course still not as nimble as an EUC though.  

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, photorph said:

One of the first pre-orders.  I went with nazare, because the lonestar has a few negatives vs the Nazare, (bulkier enclosure, 10 more lbs, 2x the charge time, and higher ride height).  I won't be riding more than 37 miles in one go anyway on a board.  The only reason to get lonestar would be if you really plan on riding 40+ miles in one go.  Either the lonestar or nazare will destory any euc in acceleration and top speed, heck even my prototipo lacroix DSS50+ does.  

Take top speed specs with a grain of salt for an eskateboard. Also watch the video I posted.

No point paying to go that fast if you need a closed track and perfect surface conditions. Wheels too small

Edited June 25, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[photorph]

17 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Take top speed specs with a grain of salt for an eskateboard. Also watch the video I posted.

No point paying to go that fast if you need a closed track and perfect surface conditions. Wheels too small

Yea I've seen that video.  I've gone 37 ish mph safely on my lacroix 10s...the new one is 12s with bigger motors, won't be surprised if it can do 45 mph safely.  The flexy board + pneumatic tires actually do pretty good with bumps, and there is no self balancing mechanism to mess up.  Plus if I'm going 30+ I want good roads even if it's on an EUC.  So I'd say you can go a lot faster with more confidence on the new lacroix boards, on an MSX 100v which I have I'd be worried about a cut out above 34 mph (you're way past tiltback).  No such thing as a cut out on a lacroix or kaly nyc, if you got open roads you an max is out.  Maxing out EUC will end up in faceplant.  

 

I have both and they both have their pros/cons, but I couldn't say I don't need an esk8 anymore because I have EUC.  

Edited June 25, 2019 by photorph

[DragonFZ]

On 6/24/2019 at 11:35 AM, Jim Martin said:

Are you going to get one of the new Lacroix boards?  I have 3 onewheel's, an evolve GT Carbon, and 4 EUCs.  I'm thinking hard about picking up a new Lonestar or Naz.  I think the Lacroix would be great to have on our big Dallas Onewheel/EUC rides where we go about 30+ miles at night through Dallas.  Still really learning the EUC so don't take it on the group rides and always take my OW XR, but speed and distance limitations are annoying.  The Lonestar would put the EUCs & OWs to shame with a speed/range capabilities.

Hey Jim, I'm in Arlington TX... did a couple of rides with the DFW OneWheel group. I pre-ordered the KS16X. The off-road part of the ride convinced me to get an EUC.

[Jim Martin]

4 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

Hey Jim, I'm in Arlington TX... did a couple of rides with the DFW OneWheel group. I pre-ordered the KS16X. The off-road part of the ride convinced me to get an EUC.

Nice, I ride with that group a bit.  No way could I ride that route with street wheels, pneumatics are a must.  I only ride my onewheel with that group right now because that's what I can ride the best.  I have a couple EUCs, but not skilled enough to ride them on the group ride just yet.

[ir_fuel]

On 6/25/2019 at 3:17 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

Take top speed specs with a grain of salt for an eskateboard. Also watch the video I posted.

I love it when people wipe out like that wearing beach clothing and then go "maybe you can learn something from my crash. Gear up". Are people really that stupid that they can't realise by themselves that going 30mph on a device with small wheels might hurt them really bad, until they actually go down?

I don't understand. I once saw a video from an e-skater who wobbled and crashed hard on the back of his head (I think it was posted here somewhere). They guy had serious brain damage. And still you see people riding around in shorts at those speeds, or on an euc with their hands in their pockets. FFS

 

[ir_fuel]

That LaCroix board looks amazing .... but so does the price . I'll be $5K out of pocket once it arrives on my doorstep in Europe.

[Dzlchef]

On 6/24/2019 at 10:24 AM, Darrell Wesh said:

EUC is certainly far and away cooler than a OneWheel. And I live on a college campus so if anyone knows “cool” it’s young adults. 

In my college campus I sometimes ride with a onewheel “bro” (frat guy) and he gets absolutely no questions about his device while everyone is staring at me and telling me my Z10 or MSX is so cool. No one really notices the big onewheel tire in the middle; the sideways stance is just too familiar for them to care. 

In the grand scheme, cool is about how you ride it and where you ride it. The one wheel is too slow to be ridden on my roads here. 25-40mph uncrowded roads.

Even if I were riding completely static with my hands at my side and not carving or anything, just the simple fact that I’m flying down the main roads with cars facing forward at 30+mph is way cooler than a onewheel slaloming through a sidewalk at 15mph. 

I’ve found that there is a novelty factor for spectators when you’re just floating by on an EUC but if you’re actively carving then it becomes super cool for folks.  Traditional cyclists fall into this category as well for the most part.  They don’t seem to take notice when I’m riding unless I’m carving then I tend to see in their facial expression a recognition of the potential fun factor.  

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, Dzlchef said:

cyclists fall into this category as well for the most part.  They don’t seem to take notice when I’m riding

Trust me, they do. Especially uphill when they are sweating and pushing in their "Tour de France" outfit. I had one start swearing out of frustration once  

[Dzlchef]

3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Trust me, they do. Especially uphill when they are sweating and pushing in their "Tour de France" outfit. I had one start swearing out of frustration once  

Oh, we have those hardcore folks here as well, and I’ve had a couple fun experiences. One stands out recently. I was stopped at a light and a guy on a very nice road bike comes up next to me and comments how pretty my wheel looks then takes off. I’m sure he thought that he’d own me, but no. I was trailing behind him at 28-29mph, jamming music and keeping my light just to his left. He pumped hard for about a mile then turned off looking quite unhappy and panting like a loser. 

[Jerome]

Hehe,

Of course this discussion was going to turn into attack and defense. I will therefore throw out a few "observations" that hopefully do neither. 

• The general public including bicyclist, toddlers to 80-year-old, gang-bangers to the horse and dog set, think the EUC is the coolest thing going., EXCEPT the ESK8, OW "enthusiast".
• The general public, however, is not interested in trying to ride an EUC. I use to rationalize this unpopularity, but NOW I concede they don't want to put the effort in to learn and feel they wouldn't feel safe riding EUCs even after they learned. (see last bullet item) 
• Those who grew up in or around the skateboard culture will prefer the esk8 and OW by a wide margin over the EUC, which is foreign.
• The general public will basically only embrace e-scooters and e-bikes. (see last bullet item)
• Technical "maximum" speed, range metrics are only relevant when the riding conditions and rider is a major part of the equation. 
• When you look at a trip that is point A to Point B (do something at point B that is in a building) back to point A, Pevs that can't easily be transported, or are not allowed in, are not useful even if they have the required speed/range to make the trip. 
• Even though EUC riding itself is the coolest thing going, rider's with the BMX helmets armor/pads/vest, etc. are not very cool looking to the general public. (unless you are in a Darth Vader suit with a cape and back full-face normal motorcycle helmet ;}) This is why bones are being broken as it's very hard to get big city/small city/suburban dwellers to put on anything more than a helmet at best to ride a PEV. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Jerome

[ir_fuel]

For that last point, might I add some observations/nuance:

You are completely right, however I think one has to dress for what he/she plans to do. If I do small trips where I need to quickly pick something up, I don't wear any protection. Maybe I put on my bike helmet, and/or my wrist guards. In that case I adapt my riding to my equipment. I will not ride at 30km/h, not even 25km/h. Sometimes it takes more time to put on/off the gear than to do the trip, and then the car becomes a lazy alternative even for a short distance.

IMHO there is no need to dress up in full armor if you use a EUC as daily transport in a city, if you keep your speeds low and be careful (no NY-style zigzagging between cars for example). At least no more need for armor than people cycling in that same city. If however you plan on riding 25+km/h then it becomes a different story. Nobody thinks it's weird someone on a (petrol) scooter  wears a helmet and a motorcycle vest. An EUC can be ridden in exactly the same way, so it makes sense you use the same and even more protection.

Of course your device may fail at any given moment, but it's not something that arrives all that often, and certainly not when staying far from the limits of the device and at reasonable speed. On the other hand, a friend of mine found himself in hospital because the front fork of his bike broke ...

[Lillian]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:25 PM, who_the said:

"...And if anyone thinks they can't have "fun" riding an EUC, they're just not doing it right... Once your skills develop, you can advance beyond riding like a statue and have almost total free reign of movement and positioning, including much more aggressive stances, bent at the knee and with less of a front-facing positioning. I ride leading with my right shoulder and a loose, bent, constantly variable stance."

Ha! That's me! I'm the "statue" right now but slowly progressing toward being a better rider.

I am only a few weeks into riding outdoors and have ridden in the street (bike lane) only twice. But today I rode over some typical NYC street bumps and metal. My EUC handled it like a champ. And after each ride like that, the endorphins kick in. I'm hyped! If I had a place to ride in NYC that was welcoming, I would ride for hours. 

My Pint order just got pushed back again and I am losing interest with each EUC ride I take. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Lillian

[DragonFZ]

8 hours ago, Jerome said:

Hehe,

Of course this discussion was going to turn into attack and defense. I will therefore throw out a few "observations" that hopefully do neither. 

• The general public including bicyclist, toddlers to 80-year-old, gang-bangers to the horse and dog set, think the EUC is the coolest thing going., EXCEPT the ESK8, OW "enthusiast".
• The general public, however, is not interested in trying to ride an EUC. I use to rationalize this unpopularity, but NOW I concede they don't want to put the effort in to learn and feel they wouldn't feel safe riding EUCs even after they learned. (see last bullet item) 
• Those who grew up in or around the skateboard culture will prefer the esk8 and OW by a wide margin over the EUC, which is foreign.
• The general public will basically only embrace e-scooters and e-bikes. (see last bullet item)
• Technical "maximum" speed, range metrics are only relevant when the riding conditions and rider is a major part of the equation. 
• When you look at a trip that is point A to Point B (do something at point B that is in a building) back to point A, Pevs that can't easily be transported, or are not allowed in, are not useful even if they have the required speed/range to make the trip. 
• Even though EUC riding itself is the coolest thing going, rider's with the BMX helmets armor/pads/vest, etc. are not very cool looking to the general public. (unless you are in a Darth Vader suit with a cape and back full-face normal motorcycle helmet ;}) This is why bones are being broken as it's very hard to get big city/small city/suburban dwellers to put on anything more than a helmet at best to ride a PEV. 

 

 

There is a Hoodie with Motorcycle Armor attached.  Street & Steel makes one.

[Jerome]

50 minutes ago, DragonFZ said:

There is a Hoodie with Motorcycle Armor attached.  Street & Steel makes one.

Yep, That's how I dress with knee padding built into the jeans. Only the helmet makes me look like I am wearing anything extra and most people are getting use to idea that wearing a helmet is a acceptable thing for riding a bike/Pev. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Jerome

[Jerome]

7 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

For that last point, might I add some observations/nuance:

You are completely right, however I think one has to dress for what he/she plans to do. If I do small trips where I need to quickly pick something up, I don't wear any protection. Maybe I put on my bike helmet, and/or my wrist guards. In that case I adapt my riding to my equipment. I will not ride at 30km/h, not even 25km/h. Sometimes it takes more time to put on/off the gear than to do the trip, and then the car becomes a lazy alternative even for a short distance.

IMHO there is no need to dress up in full armor if you use a EUC as daily transport in a city, if you keep your speeds low and be careful (no NY-style zigzagging between cars for example). At least no more need for armor than people cycling in that same city. If however you plan on riding 25+km/h then it becomes a different story. Nobody thinks it's weird someone on a (petrol) scooter  wears a helmet and a motorcycle vest. An EUC can be ridden in exactly the same way, so it makes sense you use the same and even more protection.

Of course your device may fail at any given moment, but it's not something that arrives all that often, and certainly not when staying far from the limits of the device and at reasonable speed. On the other hand, a friend of mine found himself in hospital because the front fork of his bike broke ...

Yes, yes and yes. The key thing is to ride within your limits of comfort-ability. Some want to ride at speeds beyond their feeling of comfort and compensate with protection, deluding themselves that they will get them through crashes relatively unharmed. This is true on paper only, not in real life. For every example of someone taking a fall and their protection saving them, there are many who take a fall without protection and suffer no worse. More importantly is to not have a crash and concentrate on that. Many cyclist ride at speeds equal or greater than EUC riders, and wear a helmet at best. If you saw a cyclist riding down the path ( not off-road single track or bmx track) wearing a full face BMX helmet and body armor you would wonder why he was riding if he felt that vulnerable. EUCs are either viable PEVs for the general public or are too dangerous and should only be ridden by risk-taking enthusiast. If the latter, I end with a quote from the HBO show "Boardwalk Empire" .. "you can't be half a Gangsta".

[Lillian]

On 6/29/2019 at 8:42 PM, Jerome said:

"The key thing is to ride within your limits of comfort-ability..."

I bought a lot of expensive motorcycle gear as a new EUC rider, expecting to ride in NYC street's bike lanes...and just returned that gear because I am not comfortable in the street yet.

The gear took a long time to put on and I felt retrained. Instead, with the exception of better wrist guards and a good helmet, I returned to my modest knee and elbow pads that I used for rollerblading in the past. I'll ride accordingly, as noted, within my comfort zone. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Lillian

[Jerome]

On 7/1/2019 at 9:10 AM, Lillian said:

I bought a lot of expensive motorcycle gear as a new EUC rider, expecting to ride in NYC street's bike lanes...and just returned that gear because I am not comfortable in the street yet.

The gear took a long time to put on and I felt retrained. Instead, with the exception of better wrist guards and a good helmet, I returned to my modest knee and elbow pads that I used for rollerblading in the past. I'll ride accordingly, as noted, within my comfort zone. 

Hi Lilian,

I notice you have a 'CYCLE BOARD ELITE". How do you like it? If you have that why an EUC? 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Jerome

[Lillian]

15 hours ago, Jerome said:

Hi Lilian,

I notice you have a 'CYCLE BOARD ELITE". How do you like it? If you have that why an EUC? 

Hi Jerome - I bought he CycleBoard after Immotor Go (also a 3-wheeled e-scooter) shut down and proved unsafe for a lot of people due to a poor build. Since being run over while walking in 2015, I was mentally afraid to ride again. However, over time I started getting good on riskier rideables like an e-skateboard, Segway W1 Drifts, and I have longed for my old Segway i2 since selling it.

The CB is top notch as an e-scooter and sturdy with 3 wheels. However it's huge and heavy. I ordered it online and didn't look at those details. I am a sucker for pre-sale hype and marketing (I pre-ordered a OneWheel Pint too). 

Despite my prior issues with anything that didn't basically have training wheels, I was intrigued by EUC riders. The small footprint was alluring for narrow bike paths and sidewalks. Most of all, I like that you can likely wheel an EUC into your destination.

Once I was able to ride my EUC to work, I was hooked. It feels similar to the glide I enjoyed when riding my Segway. I sold all other PEVs except for my CB. Because I am a new EUC rider, the CycleBoard remains the safest for me. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Lillian