What is the Gotway glide?

[null]

What is the famous Gotway glide I hear of?

I havent had the occasion of trying a Gotway wheel, and am intrigued about what this is about.
Is it due to the relative silence, resulting in a smoother glide?
My 16S and E+ are both quite noisy, which results in a slightly raspy vibration. The S2 is randomly more silent thus smooth which is a nice feeling.

In 3D printing there is quite some focus on micro stepping, which is the subdivisions of the stepper motors steps. Rather than driving it one step at a time, the controller will create sub steps which smoothes the motion. The same motor can be both noisy or silent based on the level of micro stepping. Do EUCs use this?

The controller boards reactions to angles is AFAIK the only other factor that could create a particular glide, do you guys feel there is something special here?

Are there other factors that could create s specific glide?

[Esso]

I'm curious too. The reviewer at the end of this 16x video (around 6:08) mentions it too. He calls it the "Gotway flow".

 

[houseofjob]

13 hours ago, Mimolette said:

What is the famous Gotway glide I hear of?

Is it due to the relative silence, resulting in a smoother glide?

The controller boards reactions to angles is AFAIK the only other factor that could create a particular glide, do you guys feel there is something special here?

Are there other factors that could create s specific glide?

9 hours ago, Esso said:

I'm curious too. The reviewer at the end of this 16x video (around 6:08) mentions it too. He calls it the "Gotway flow".

Typically, the "Gotway glide" many refer to, I believe, is the resistance feel of the motor when in motion, especially when accelerating at higher speeds.

Each company has a different feel here (albeit, with Gotway in particular, it can vary model-to-model).

 

In my experiences of each manufacturer recent model wheel ownerships:

King Songs and InMotions have a very "rubbery" motor resistance feel (like pulling a tube of foam through a too-narrow plastic pipe) when accelerating, which lessens to a degree when traveling at higher speeds.

Ninebots have a slightly harder, silent mechanical motor rumble feel to it, not at all "rubbery".

Gotways typically have a feeling of almost no resistance when accelerating at speed, like the wheel body is floating upright independent of the motor/wheel.

 

This is the best I can describe. You really have to try each manufacturer's wheels for a good few miles to tell the difference I think.

[null]

Thanks for all the insight @houseofjob. Great to have a an opinion from someone with a lot of experiences.
I do get the Ninebot / KingSong difference, but the lower power of the S2 overshadows the acceleration curve difference.

So it would mostly be a question of leaning to acceleration curve, more than motor silence. Though the later probably helps.

Thanks again for sharing, this must be pretty much the only account of an otherwise mysterious (for non gateway people) concept :)

[houseofjob]

47 minutes ago, Mimolette said:

Thanks for all the insight @houseofjob.

Sure thing. 

47 minutes ago, Mimolette said:

So it would mostly be a question of leaning to acceleration curve, more than motor silence. Though the later probably helps.

Motor silence is I believe either how high the manufacturer tunes their motor PWM noise, or shields this same noise AFAIK.

FWIW, even 'silent' EUC's will make the PWM noise if you place them near enough reflective surfaces/walls.

 

But either way, your located in Paris, the EUC capital! Why not go to e-roue or Urban360 shop to try each manufacturer wheels? 

 

[SamSuffit]

 

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

But either way, your located in Paris, the EUC capital! Why not go to e-roue or Urban360 shop to try each manufacturer wheels? 

The issue in Paris is: the price of EUC is almost twice the price of Aliexpress.

If you don't want to buy in a shop, it is difficult to go to a shop, taking advantage of it (in time and stock inventory) without ordering. It would not really be fair to the shop.

[mrelwood]

Regarding the smoothness, while some people tout the MSX as being a smooth running wheel, the motor vibration is quite pronounced when stressing the wheel at slow speeds, and can be clearly felt at a steady speed as well up until 30-35km/h. Then it disappears, and the ride is indeed smooth.

If I understood @houseofjob’s description correctly, the ”Gotway glide” would refer to the programmed stiffness in the pedal tilt. Gotway ride modes are all rock hard, as if you were standing on a pair of skis. The ”softer” modes are more like acceleration/braking assists: They let the pedals tilt slowly only if you keep leaning for a second or more.

KingSong hard mode is as if you were standing on a wrestling court, medium is a joga matt, and soft is a soft bed.

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Regarding the smoothness, while some people tout the MSX as being a smooth running wheel, the motor vibration is quite pronounced when stressing the wheel at slow speeds, and can be clearly felt at a steady speed as well up until 30-35km/h. Then it disappears, and the ride is indeed smooth.

If I understood @houseofjob’s description correctly, the ”Gotway glide” would refer to the programmed stiffness in the pedal tilt. Gotway ride modes are all rock hard, as if you were standing on a pair of skis. The ”softer” modes are more like acceleration/braking assists: They let the pedals tilt slowly only if you keep leaning for a second or more.

The MSX is a big outlier for the typical Gotway feel and balance of modes, motor feel, etc, so it's hard to generalize based on that wheel (a big reason why I did not purchase this wheel, despite its A-class performance).

2 hours ago, SamSuffit said:

If you don't want to buy in a shop, it is difficult to go to a shop, taking advantage of it (in time and stock inventory) without ordering. It would not really be fair to the shop.

I see. As a prospective buyer, I would take advantage, but this is just me I guess 

[Vanzen]

If you want to experience the Gotway glide, try a MCM5, you ll understand immediatly.

Its no longer a wheel but a magic carpet

I know because i went yesterday with my MCM5 to Gyroshop in Paris to try the KS16X (same as in the video above ...) and lol ....

After 5 minutes I wanted to get back to my beloved Gotway and never set foot again on this clumsy crap ....

Personal feeling of course ...

[Hatchet]

The MSX is like that too, though it has a tiny grindy-vibration. He says the whiney motor is gone hallelujah.

[null]

I get the quality of stiffness (though I suppose Gotway glide is also a matter of curve) but it supposedly eats battery, pulling for the acceleration. On my KS16S I prefer hard mode but use medium due to that. Would be interesting to have some hard data. AFAIK Gotway gets less km/battery.

@houseofjob

Yes absolutely, got to try renting some interesting wheels, when time and budget aligns. We’re lucky that « new mobility » took off here, a lot of EUCs around in spite of e-kiskscooters being the main slice.

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Mimolette said:

I get the quality of stiffness (though I suppose Gotway glide is also a matter of curve) but it supposedly eats battery, pulling for the acceleration. On my KS16S I prefer hard mode but use medium due to that. Would be interesting to have some hard data.

I got 5km further per charge on my 16S with medium mode compared to hard mode.

1 hour ago, Mimolette said:

AFAIK Gotway gets less km/battery.

That does make sense, since Gotway riding modes are all initially harder than any of the KingSongs. Gotway also doesn’t let the battery to be run as empty as KingSong does, so a bit of range is lost there as well.

 

[Shad0z]

On 6/25/2019 at 11:42 AM, mrelwood said:

Gotway also doesn’t let the battery to be run as empty as KingSong does, so a bit of range is lost there as well.

 

Whaaat? I always hear of people complaining their ks18L/XL keeps restricting their speed early on. Like almost at 40% While i ride my. Msx at decent speed untill about 15-20%

[Shad0z]

How i would describe the gotway "glide" is like. My msx, when i just start. It feels a little sluggish compares to smaller wheels for example. But when i go past 15 kph. I just feel like a little lean will give me some insane acceleration. But only if it want it to. Its not like super sensitive or anything. The msx just goes beastmode. And it feels like it has sooo much like power in the acceleration. So much torque. But still soo smooth. Like floating. I just dont feel other brands do the same. Sure they might accelerate almost as fast. But gotway just has that distict glide feel to it. That's why so many gotway users are crazy out of their mind and go that fast. Because it feels so effortless and powefull. To suddenly go to warp speed. It is easy to get carried away. Usually i ride at a moderate speeds though. 30-40kph average.

[Mono]

On 6/23/2019 at 10:17 AM, mrelwood said:

If I understood @houseofjob’s description correctly, the ”Gotway glide” would refer to the programmed stiffness in the pedal tilt.

Pedal stiffness seems to be distinct from the glide-feeling to me. There is a (funny) difference between being soft (vs hard, i.e. stiffness) and being smooth (vs, I don't know, maybe rough or rugged).

[mrelwood]

18 hours ago, Shad0z said:

Whaaat? I always hear of people complaining their ks18L/XL keeps restricting their speed early on. Like almost at 40% While i ride my. Msx at decent speed untill about 15-20%

Yes, well battery capacity is not measured in percentages. A 340Wh battery is also at 100% when charged.

When the battery voltage gets down to 3.3V per cell, Gotway says the charge is at 0%, while 18XL is at 25%, and 16X at 15%. (Don’t quote me on the exact percentages or voltages.) So when the 18XL starts to slow down, a Gotway has already been beeping for miles.

15 hours ago, Mono said:

Pedal stiffness seems to be distinct from the glide-feeling to me. There is a (funny) difference between being soft (vs hard, i.e. stiffness) and being smooth (vs, I don't know, maybe rough or rugged).

Even with the ergonomics aside, the MSX has the roughest or most coarse ride from all the wheels I’ve tried. It growls at start and vibrates up to 30km/h. I’ve never understood how people can call the MSX a smooth ride.

The only thing I can call smooth in the MSX is how it responds to leaning and obstacles. And that smoothness I would base directly to the pedal mode programming.

The modern Gotway pedal modes function very differently from all other manufacturers. When facing a bump or a root, other wheels wait for a few nanoseconds until the rider starts to fall forward and pushes down the front of the pedals to call in for more power. While the MSX puts in the required power immediately, no matter which riding mode is in use.

The ”softness” of the soft mode in MSX kicks in only when the lean lasts for a bit longer. If I lean to accelerate fast and keep the same lean/acceleration, the pedals will  slowly tilt forward for the first 2 seconds. On a KingSong the pedals would tilt forward right away and stay there.

Today I did a range test on the soft mode, including a few short very steep hills. On a steep dirt incline the MSX soft mode is difficult to distinguish from losing grip, or overleaning. Which is why I don’t normally use it. Although, I haven’t ridden those hills with other wheels, I think that a middle ground between GW and KS would feel the best for me.

[UniVehje]

15 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

On a KingSong the pedals would tilt forward right away and stay there.

Actually the pedals don’t stay there, more like a springy action. On Inmotions the effect is stronger but I think it’s similar on modern KingSong firmwares also. It feels like the pedals would be suspended on strong springs. Initially the pedals gives in a bit (especially with a strong push) and then springs back. This is the Inmotion feel and it’s almost the same on my 18XL. I think the difference to Gotways comes from this. On Gotways the soft mode gives in and stays, on Kingsongs they first give in and then rebounce. So on Gotway soft modes feels floaty, on Inmotion soft modes feels like the springs are softer but not that floaty. KingSong is probably middle ground between Gotway approach and Inmotion. Kinsong’s recent firmware updates have moved the feeling closer to Inmotion springy action which I really like. 

[mrelwood]

6 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Actually the pedals don’t stay there, more like a springy action.

Really? So if you try to hold a steady acceleration, the pedals will straighten back up after the initial dip? Could that be the ”springs” turning harder at speed? Then again, I guess it doesn’t matter, since the end result is the same.

Again I dearly long for the ultimate riding mode setup that would serve everyone and every riding situation: A first slider or a three-position switch to select the base behaviour: slow (GW) - med (KS?) - fast (IM?), and another slider to set the actual amount of softness.

InMotion seems to be way more advanced in this regard compared to GW or KS.

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Really? So if you try to hold a steady acceleration, the pedals will straighten back up after the initial dip? Could that be the ”springs” turning harder at speed? Then again, I guess it doesn’t matter, since the end result is the same.

Again I dearly long for the ultimate riding mode setup that would serve everyone and every riding situation: A first slider or a three-position switch to select the base behaviour: slow (GW) - med (KS?) - fast (IM?), and another slider to set the actual amount of softness.

InMotion seems to be way more advanced in this regard compared to GW or KS.

I could be very wrong about it and I don’t have a lot of experience with Gotway’s soft modes. I will test more on my wheel soon. But at least on Inmotion it functions like you said. I agree that InMotion seems to be more advanced, they clearly put some thought and “intelligence” into the riding modes and it can be adjusted very well. KingSong seems to be moving closer to that and Gotway’s approach is very linear and simple. 

[Shad0z]

whaat? i found the msuper x very smooth. except when just starting to accerate. then it makes some grinding noises. but as soon as im a little bit up to speed is feels oh so smooth. 

[mrelwood]

9 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

whaat? i found the msuper x very smooth.

Have you ridden the 16S, 18XL, or V10F?

 

[Shad0z]

3 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Have you ridden the 16S, 18XL, or V10F?

 

All of them. Multiple times. And many more

[Mike Sacristan]

The MSX has very noticeable cogging up to around 15 kmh.
Nikola a bit less, Tesla much less, my Ninebot One E+ none at all.

With great power (and magnets) comes great cogging.

My first 2000km on my MSX were on soft mode. Soft mode dips forwards/backwards and then resets slowly as you release pressure. You can see this by pushing the MSX back and forth with one foot and this is how I verify what pedal mode I am in before launch.

I did some testing with soft mode vs hard mode on the speedway close to where I live. Initial pressure on the pedals upon kicking off is high and the pedals will yield. Once you are rolling you are no longer applying the same initial pressure so the pedals will return. If you accelerate hard the pedals will dip again, at this point you will be reaching X speed for Y intent. Wind resistance will start to push you upright. If you keep the same intent/posture the pedals will yield giving a sensation of tilting back. Relatively the soft mode feels like it requires more intent. You are getting X speed for Y intent but the acceleration diminishes as the pedals even out. The differences in pedal angle make the intent/speed gap larger.

The solution? INFINITE INTENT! 
Or ride in the hard mode to avoid the dramatic differences in intent required.

I like the soft mode.
I can throw my ass back several times and use the dip to improve braking. In my mind at least.

[Ben Kim]

Coming from a KS, it took a while to get used to my Nikola+ pedal stiffness. KS medium mode was pretty comfortable and was my preferred riding stiffness, However even soft mode on my Nikola+ is pretty stiff, not quite KS hard mode level, but nothing like the comfort I had with KS medium. 

Youll eventually adjust like I have, but there is no feeling of resistance on the Gotway wheel when you’re leaning forward, it just goes!