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Speed Wobble Problem


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I find it weird most people here adopt a fairly straight stance. I bend my knees probably between 10-20 degrees all the time. I recently bought some powerpads for my 16x and in their recommended position I had to ride standing almost straight, making me feel so insecure. Felt like any bump in the road would make me fall forward. One would argue the lower you can comfortably go, the better since you lower your COG. The wheel also has to overcome way less when you do hit a bump crouching, opposed to standing almost straight, resulting in more headroom and a safer ride. The less weight you put in front of the wheel the better imo.

As to people saying they get wobbles when bending their knees more; if you are not used to this stance your muscles need to adapt. Ride low for a couple of months (if your knees can handle the strain ofc) and the wobbles will go away same as any stance.

Edited by Skecys
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Ground variations, small muscle or steering movements, wind, etc. constantly induce sideways motions that can start a wobble. Usually, the rider dampens the oscillations away quickly and automatically

Straightening up works well for smaller or self-induced wobbles, but for severe wobbles at higher speed I feel a strong carving motion to be more effective. Or just leaning the other leg firmly agains

It's smart to always bring the essentials when out riding...you never know when you're going to need them. Some people take chances and don't bring anything with them; but I don't go anywhere wit

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7 hours ago, Skecys said:

I find it weird most people here adopt a fairly straight stance. I bend my knees probably between 10-20 degrees all the time. I recently bought some powerpads for my 16x and in their recommended position I had to ride standing almost straight, making me feel so insecure. Felt like any bump in the road would make me fall forward. One would argue the lower you can comfortably go, the better since you lower your COG. The wheel also has to overcome way less when you do hit a bump crouching, opposed to standing almost straight, resulting in more headroom and a safer ride. The less weight you put in front of the wheel the better imo.

As to people saying they get wobbles when bending their knees more; if you are not used to this stance your muscles need to adapt. Ride low for a couple of months (if your knees can handle the strain ofc) and the wobbles will go away same as any stance.

i ride with perfectly straight legs just because its more comfortable lol, i preferred to just get better at riding to mitigate risk rather than doing it the smart way.. i was quite literally thrown off my starter wheel like 20 times :P but never once fell... now i only bother to bend my knees for larger bumps, but youre definitely right

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  • 2 weeks later...

What EUC riders call "wobble" is in fact a  so called "self-exciting oscillation". This phenomenon is active is each system consisting of a mass-spring combination where energy is put in. The effect can be minimized by adding damping to the system and introduce other frequecies that differ from the natural frequency of the system. So avoid high speed riding in a straight course on a smooth pavement. Make curves and bring variation in your speed during riding. The oscillation is possible because the wheel can freely make left-right movements, nót forward-backward. So, if you feel a "wobble" coming up, clamp the wheel between your legs as strongly as you can and try to make variations in speed and coarse. Knowing all this it is not likely to hear an off road rider complaing about "wobbles". Have a good and wobble-free ride!

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On 8/6/2020 at 11:08 AM, harry40 said:

So, if you feel a "wobble" coming up, clamp the wheel between your legs as strongly as you can

For any oscillation, a more effective way of killing it is to decrease the tension from one side, and increase on the other. Otherwise the tense leg muscles would still keep exiting the wobble.

 Turn the other knee outward to clear the shell, and push against the shell with the other leg for the most effective kill-a-wobble.

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5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

For any oscillation, a more effective way of killing it is to decrease the tension from one side, and increase on the other. Otherwise the tense leg muscles would still keep exiting the wobble.

 Turn the other knee outward to clear the shell, and push against the shell with the other leg for the most effective kill-a-wobble.

Agreed, exactly the opposite of trying to clench the wheel as hard as you can with both legs equally.

It still amazes me that people think the way to cure wobbles is to grip harder. For me, the last thing I want to do is try and 'contain' a wobble. You need to get rid of it, asap, and that means coming off the brakes, carving, shifting weight onto one leg or in fact anything other than trying to forcefully 'lock' the wheel up with both legs.

Relax. Don't panic is the main thing. You cant fight an increasingly oscillating wheel. Chill out and try to contain what you think is impending doom. Let the wheel have its moment. It will try. Its gonna try and have a meltdown if you panic and lock up. Things will calm down if you dont overthink it. I have had wobbles at 40mph on the brakes, and I have ridden out all of them. None of them involved trying to lock down a wild bison between my legs.

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Just a theory, but I believe "clamping on" to a wobble wheel is exactly wrong. 

Many people have expressed some variation of "be relaxed", and my guess is that this is indeed key. The wheel needs to be able to float a bit on its own. 

(I am relatively new rider so willing to revisit thoughts on this ongoing)

In the motorcycle world there have been examples of wobbles so extreme that the rider gets thrown off, at which point the motorcycle sometimes manages to calm on it's own a ride for awhile sans rider.  Suggesting that rider input was the culprit all along rather than the machine. 

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22 hours ago, Obee said:

Just a theory, but I believe "clamping on" to a wobble wheel is exactly wrong

Really just a Theorie. 

Marty can tell you otherwise. 

I myself figured out that the brake wobbles on the Z10 are less with more streched out and stiffened legs as with bent knees. 

And the wobbles go away when I press one calf against the wheel as if I would like to take a smooth turn. Since I recognized this, everytime I brake hard i do so and there are no wobbles anymore or they disappear if there are some. 

Edited by Werner
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8 minutes ago, Werner said:

Really just a Theorie. 

Marty can tell you otherwise. 

I myself figured out that the brake wobbles on the Z10 are less with more streched out and stiffened legs as with bent knees. 

And the wobbles go away when I press one calf against the wheel as if I would like to take a smooth turn. Since I recognized this, everytime I brake hard i do so and there are no wobbles anymore or they disappear if there are some. 

there are too many variables at play.... everyones gonna be different. experiment lol

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Great thread, it seems 'the wobbles' remain somewhat of an enigma although I do like the term "self-exciting oscillation". And no, this is not what I do in the shower when nobody is looking :efefa6edcf:

I have about 72km on my first wheel and started to encounter self-exciting oscillations (gawd, I'm going to use this term everywhere lol) as I got faster than 25kph. I'm cautious though, and they never got out of hand. I have noticed that the wobbles get 'set up' on slightly uneven terrain that creates a certain frequency when I ride over it with some speed. I haven't encountered them, ever, when cornering or while being more active on the wheel. I continue to work on some slight weaving and will need to keep practicing how to do them at higher speeds. I sort of 'pretend' carve when going faster so I'm shifting my weight a bit (which might actually be enough on the wobble front) but I'm not confident enough to dig in to it. 

I have definitely also notice the wheel becomes unstable and starts to wobble when I need to crouch down to go under branches etc., @Rywokast it makes a lot of sense that I should spend some time practicing how to crouch! I hadn't fully considered how far away (literally and figuratively) using one of the seats for my 18xl actually is, if I can't crouch under a branch without setting up a wobble the idea of sitting on the wheel is simply naive!

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be good to mk sure the rim is true and the tire is properly seated as issues there will cause wobble on a test bed. Check that ur machine runs smoothly at speed without a rider to eliminate these. If good then I agree with standing more upright but relaxed - very little contact with sides of shell. Even very slight carving just by turning shlders slightly from side to side will induce slight weight shift & shld stabilize things (and makes for a more interesting ride anyhow!).

Higher tire pressure will increase tendency to wobble as less and less tire surface is in contact with the roadway...

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5 hours ago, UniMe said:

Great thread, it seems 'the wobbles' remain somewhat of an enigma although I do like the term "self-exciting oscillation". And no, this is not what I do in the shower when nobody is looking :efefa6edcf:

I have definitely also notice the wheel becomes unstable and starts to wobble when I need to crouch down to go under branches etc., @Rywokast it makes a lot of sense that I should spend some time practicing how to crouch! I hadn't fully considered how far away (literally and figuratively) using one of the seats for my 18xl actually is, if I can't crouch under a branch without setting up a wobble the idea of sitting on the wheel is simply naive!

LMFAO!

yes, that's an extremely important skill.. not sitting but crouching, or you're gonna get smacked in the face by something haha.. it takes a lot of practice and building enough muscles but eventually riding completely crouched or sitting on a wheel becomes easy, and with a seat a completely new experience.. one of the big reasons that swayed me towards the V11 was the promise of a seat, there are many reasons but that's one of them seated riding is awesome

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  • 2 months later...
On 6/9/2019 at 1:02 PM, scotchtape said:

You need to keep riding to gain experience and muscle memory. 

Once you get "better" they will go away for the most part.  Find out what works for you by adjusting your stance and cog.  For me I found if my feet are too far forward I get wobbles more easily.  Also try narrow vs wide stance.  

Also I found that weaving from side to side also helps, people use the term carving which I think is overblown, but it helps keep solid pressure on the euc from one side which I think helps reduce the feedback loop.

No one knows how/why it happens but speculate it's a feedback loop once a certain type of oscillation starts.

My first week on MSX I was getting wobbles but after more riding they happen much less frequently after I tried different positions and techniques. I still get them but I can slow down, reset foot position and usually that clears things up. 

are there guides to different foot position styles or is it just a matter of trying different things out?

Edited by I_Must_Bust
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8 hours ago, I_Must_Bust said:

are there guides to different foot position styles or is it just a matter of trying different things out?

There are guides. I recommend watching U-Stride. Search his channel and he has a lot of videos about riding styles.

 

Here is one: 

 

 

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