Nikola or Nikola Plus?

[Marty Backe]

29 minutes ago, maltocs said:

Nice, your wheel is getting better and better looking every time you post a pic! I'm with you about Jason. He gets them as quick as a bulk dealer can get them, and his knowledge and customer service is awesome. the 2 wheels I bought from him directly. He even helped me fix the MTen3 which was bought 2nd hand from someone who bought from him. 

But I'm tempted to buy from an Alibaba dealer only because they have the 100V Nikola I want and I really want to ride this summer. I blame @Marty Backe for teasing me with all his 1600+ WattHour parties that I can't attend.

So if you bought way back in mid-April, you knew of the existence of the 100V version way back then???

Didn't @Jason McNeil just post somewhere that he's getting a shipment of Plus's? Might be worth an e-mail?

I'm even tempted to get the Plus because the standard wheel is so damn good. Imagine having a 2000+ WH wheel in the relatively small Nikola package 

[maltocs]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Didn't @Jason McNeil just post somewhere that he's getting a shipment of Plus's? Might be worth an e-mail?

I'm even tempted to get the Plus because the standard wheel is so damn good. Imagine having a 2000+ WH wheel in the relatively small Nikola package 

I don't think they make a 2000+WH PLUS. I'm assuming the by PLUS you mean 100V. I think the biggest 100V i can find anywhere is 1845WH which would be the one I was interested in. You must mean the 84V 2100WH model for over 2kWH. Anyways, I wanted the 100V because I know everyone keeps saying that the 84V vs 100V would only help on the top end, and not necessarily low end torque, but it's all in theory right?? I want it to be a tiny bit better on the low end and a lot more forgiving going up hills with my 200lbs. (I'm NOT walking my next wheel up mount wilson.) After all, no one who is 175lbs has any problem with the V10F, but with my paltry 25lbs more, it makes a big difference. So my small insurance of not buying the wrong wheel is just getting the PLUS 100V.

[maltocs]

18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm even tempted to get the Plus because the standard wheel is so damn good

and by the way, after all your "I'm not made of money comments" when people assume you will buy the 16x, i'm telling you right now the KINGSONG would be turned upside down if you bought TWO Nikolas before you bought one 16x.

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, maltocs said:

I don't think they make a 2000+WH PLUS. I'm assuming the by PLUS you mean 100V. I think the biggest 100V i can find anywhere is 1845WH which would be the one I was interested in. You must mean the 84V 2100WH model for over 2kWH. Anyways, I wanted the 100V because I know everyone keeps saying that the 84V vs 100V would only help on the top end, and not necessarily low end torque, but it's all in theory right?? I want it to be a tiny bit better on the low end and a lot more forgiving going up hills with my 200lbs. (I'm NOT walking my next wheel up mount wilson.) After all, no one who is 175lbs has any problem with the V10F, but with my paltry 25lbs more, it makes a big difference. So my small insurance of not buying the wrong wheel is just getting the PLUS 100V.

Yes, by Plus I mean the 2100wh wheel with the stronger motor. People are already wheeling around on the 100-volt version. Beyond the bigger battery, the stronger motor (if true) is what interests me about the Plus.

But I think any version of the Nikola will be great.

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, maltocs said:

and by the way, after all your "I'm not made of money comments" when people assume you will buy the 16x, i'm telling you right now the KINGSONG would be turned upside down if you bought TWO Nikolas before you bought one 16x.

I certainly won't even contemplate the 16X until/if I get a chance to ride one for an extended period. Here's hoping the 16X will land before summer is over 

[stephen]

Are these the standard lights i couldn't ride it in the uk but it does look kind of cool

 

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, stephen said:

Are these the standard lights i couldn't ride it in the uk but it does look kind of cool

 

These look different, but I haven't ridden mine in total darkness yet. I'll have to shoot a video. I will say that they aren't the brightest during the day, so you probably need to be in dark conditions to get the whole affect.

[stephen]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

These look different, but I haven't ridden mine in total darkness yet. I'll have to shoot a video. I will say that they aren't the brightest during the day, so you probably need to be in dark conditions to get the whole affect.

If they are not standard it would be cool to have an app where you could modify the colours and patterns . Then you'd have it personal to yourself 😊

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Is the Nikola Plus (100V version) only faster, or does it have also more low speed torque and acceleration compared to the 84V version?

I don't need more speed, I want highest torque at low til medium speed for offroad hill trails. 

 

[photorph]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

Is the Nikola Plus (100V version) only faster, or does it have also more low speed torque and acceleration compared to the 84V version?

I don't need more speed, I want highest torque at low til medium speed for offroad hill trails. 

 

100v usually means more speed only, possibly less torque.  If all else is kept same, motor speed is determined by volts and torque/acceleration/hill climbing is determined by how much current is going through.  Bigger battery of 84v means more amps and more current, thus theoretically better torque.  

 

But that’s assuming all else is same.  I don’t know if they are using a different motor in the 100v.  

Edited June 12, 2019 by photorph

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Damn.... so if your theory is correct and no other engine was used, should the 84V version be a better choice for me? 

Does the battery capacity have an influence on the torque, because more cells in parallel? 

Again damn, that also means that my decision whether 16x or Nikola is not automatically taken from me. 😅

[Darrell Wesh]

2 hours ago, buell47 said:

Is the Nikola Plus (100V version) only faster, or does it have also more low speed torque and acceleration compared to the 84V version?

I don't need more speed, I want highest torque at low til medium speed for offroad hill trails. 

 

Technique in accelerating matters much more then the infinitesimal 84v/100v torque differences (if any) 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I thought pushing the pedal and leaning forward as much I can is the only thing what I have to do? 

If not, can you please explain the right technique? 😊

[Mike Sacristan]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

I thought pushing the pedal and leaning forward as much I can is the only thing what I have to do? 

If not, can you please explain the right technique? 😊

Forward tilts on the pedals is a variable.
Soft mode is a variable.
Leaning is a variable.
Foot position is a variable.
High heels is a variable.
Holding out a watermelon in front of you is a variable.
Upper body weight distribution is a variable.

If anyone else would like to chime in in the thread please do so.

Check out this thread and in particular the post I wrote last night regarding different ways to accelerate.

 

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, buell47 said:

Damn.... so if your theory is correct and no other engine was used, should the 84V version be a better choice for me? 

Does the battery capacity have an influence on the torque, because more cells in parallel? 

Again damn, that also means that my decision whether 16x or Nikola is not automatically taken from me. 😅

More batteries equals more more equals less torque - a lighter wheel will always have more torque. The MCM5 has the most torque of any wheel made.

So an KS18L will have a bit more torque than a KS18XL.

I don't think the weight difference between a 100-v and 84-v Nikola will make much difference.

Whether the 100-v version has more or less torque is debated. I've ridden both versions of the MSX and could feel no difference (in torque). Some owners think it may be a little less. I think the difference is in the noise.

Buy 100-volt wheels if top-end speed is important to you.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Forward tilts on the pedals is a variable.
Soft mode is a variable.
Leaning is a variable.
Foot position is a variable.
High heels is a variable.
Holding out a watermelon in front of you is a variable.
Upper body weight distribution is a variable.

When I see in the log file of the WheelLog that I had peaks of 20 amps and 1600 watts (Inmotion V8) on failed slopes, do I know then that my technique was correct?

Watermelon? lol....impossible with one hand, because my other hand is occupied with my smartphone 😂

Hmm...high heels and a XXL breast enlargement...I'm sure my girlfriend wouldn't like it 😉

 

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

When I see in the log file of the WheelLog that I had peaks of 20 amps and 1600 watts (Inmotion V8) on failed slopes, do I know then that my technique was correct?

Watermelon? lol....impossible with one hand, because my other hand is occupied with my smartphone 😂

Hmm...high heels and a XXL breast enlargement...I'm sure my girlfriend wouldn't like it 😉

 

If you lean forward from a standstill on wheels such as the MSX and KS18XL, you can actually fall off the front before the wheel can catch you because you lost your balance but not an overlean. 

So the wheel can still accelerate more but you can’t keep your balance to make it do so. That’s why techniques like sticking your hand out in front, pedal pumping etc exist to maximize acceleration.

[Mrd777]

I have yet to try a 84v Nikola so its hard to compare one to my 100v version. The main difference I've felt from 100v versions like the Monster and the MSX is the roll on power.

100 volt versions really seem to move on out when accelerating from a cruising speed. Ive also noticed this when I've over-volted several of my electric bikes.

[houseofjob]

13 hours ago, buell47 said:

I thought pushing the pedal and leaning forward as much I can is the only thing what I have to do? 

If not, can you please explain the right technique? 😊

Argh!, If you pedal once on one foot of a bicycle and only that rotate that lone foot in circles, or swim stroking with only one arm, and only rotate that one arm in circles, would you complain about not having enough torque? Of course not! And EUC is no different! 

The initial force of your foot leaning on the pedal will always be much stronger than the trailing force of you trying to prolong it forever in eternity, so why not just keep on alternating that initial force from foot to foot?, ie. pump or pedal the EUC?

[photorph]

I rode both the 84v and 100v msx today, 84v has slightly better acceleration.  Another ride came to the same conclusion.  This also matches up with what I initially said.  

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

8 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

That’s why techniques like sticking your hand out in front, pedal pumping etc exist to maximize acceleration.

 

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

The initial force of your foot leaning on the pedal will always be much stronger than the trailing force of you trying to prolong it forever in eternity, so why not just keep on alternating that initial force from foot to foot?, ie. pump or pedal the EUC?

Stretching out my arm forward.....I have already done this unconsciously and automatically, but "pumping" would never have occurred to me. Thank you, I will test that.

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Argh!, If you pedal once on one foot of a bicycle and only that rotate that lone foot in circles, or swim stroking with only one arm, and only rotate that one arm in circles, would you complain about not having enough torque? Of course not! And EUC is no different! 

The initial force of your foot leaning on the pedal will always be much stronger than the trailing force of you trying to prolong it forever in eternity, so why not just keep on alternating that initial force from foot to foot?, ie. pump or pedal the EUC?

@buell47 On my Z10 , which is notorious for “weak” braking, I can come to a significantly shorter stop by pedal pumping. The “straight lean back” braking of the Z is atrocious for some reason, but by alternating the braking force (which will cause you to sort of slalom) you can really stop the Z quite satisfactorily. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

13 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Buy 100-volt wheels if top-end speed is important to you.

 

50 minutes ago, photorph said:

I rode both the 84v and 100v msx today, 84v has slightly better acceleration.  Another ride came to the same conclusion.  This also matches up with what I initially said.   

Thanks a lot, so unfortunately the decision remains between 16X and Nikola 84V! Damn, I hate such decisions!

[Marty Backe]

26 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

@buell47 On my Z10 , which is notorious for “weak” braking, I can come to a significantly shorter stop by pedal pumping. The “straight lean back” braking of the Z is atrocious for some reason, but by alternating the braking force (which will cause you to sort of slalom) you can really stop the Z quite satisfactorily. 

I'd love to see a video of this. For some reason I still can't get my head around pedal pumping 

[Marty Backe]

24 minutes ago, buell47 said:

 

Thanks a lot, so unfortunately the decision remains between 16X and Nikola 84V! Damn, I hate such decisions!

You know that the Gotway wheel will always have better performance throughout the entire battery capacity. True performance aficionados will usually lean towards Gotway wheels. It's just the way it is.