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Why do you ride a Monster?


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Just curious about how this heavy beast of a wheel fits into your arsenal? Is it your car replacement? do you ride it off road for some reason? Lol. If you have another large battery wheel like the KS-18XL or MSX, how do you fit your monster in the lineup? What makes you hop on and ride? Is it not inconvenient being so heavy? 

After starting small with the KS- 16s and upgrading to the 18XL i now know that my love lies with bigger wheels. I know people say the XL acts like a 16, and yeah, i can throw it around and its a blast, but even when i tried the MSX, i was like, yeah, this is right. I like it even more than the peppy 16 inch wheels. When I think about what wheel I would get in the future, my mind always falls on that damn monster. Maybe I've been watching too many chinese ride videos where all these folks have kitted out their monster (and some have kitted up their 18s and they look amazing, tbh) and they're just sitting down casually cruising down a road at breakneck speeds, lol. 

Yeah, this addiction has gotten hold of me. I wont be getting any new wheel for a while still, but figured i'd still make this thread to pass the time. Or possibly talk me out of getting it, loll. 

 

So again, whats your reason for riding the Monster, and why is it awesome (or not) to you? 

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20 minutes ago, seage said:

.....................

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So again, whats your reason for riding the Monster, and why is it awesome (or not) to you? 

I have the original 84v 2400wh version. I ride it because:

  1. Range (at my weight, 145 lbs, I get ~100 miles of range from one full charge, based on my experience)
  2. Speed (80% power warning starts beeping from ~57 kph onward, per my experience when high battery)
  3. Comfort (the attachable seat is great for long distance trips)

With that said, I plan to sell it. Why? Well, it is too bulky for me (I am a lightweight man). Also, I have never run out of battery during a trip with it (meaning I don't really need that much). A 16" with 1600wh (or higher) battery is a better option for me (plus I'd love the extra torque, acceleration, and handling agility that a smaller long-range wheel would provide me).

 

 

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7 minutes ago, edwin_rm said:

With that said, I plan to sell it. Why? Well, it is too bulky for me (I am a lightweight man). Also, I have never run out of battery during a trip with it (meaning I don't really need that much). A 16" with 1600wh (or higher) battery is a better option for me (plus I'd love the extra torque, acceleration, and agility that a smaller long-range wheel would provide me).

Oooo, that was an interesting twist! Haha. I guess the ease of being able to toss a 16 inch around and carry it here and there would be really good. Considering the monster is 74lbs or something, and my old 16s was like 38lbs? Huge difference, haha. Are you normally mounting and dismounting? Or going up and down stairs and stuff? I've found lately for me, i almost never lift my wheel outside of curbs, because i havent learned to jump em. Everywhere i go, even the train, theres accessibility ramps, elevators, the works. I've lifted it downtown like 3 times in 1600km. That was an issue i thought I'd have, and now that i dont its like.....welpppppppppppppp...

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21 minutes ago, seage said:

Oooo, that was an interesting twist! Haha. I guess the ease of being able to toss a 16 inch around and carry it here and there would be really good. Considering the monster is 74lbs or something, and my old 16s was like 38lbs? Huge difference, haha. Are you normally mounting and dismounting? Or going up and down stairs and stuff? I've found lately for me, i almost never lift my wheel outside of curbs, because i havent learned to jump em. Everywhere i go, even the train, theres accessibility ramps, elevators, the works. I've lifted it downtown like 3 times in 1600km. That was an issue i thought I'd have, and now that i dont its like.....welpppppppppppppp...

It's not about lifting it, but rather, it is difficult for me to maneuver it how i'd like due to my body being too lightweight for it. That is a problem also for accelerating uphill. I'll sell it to a heavier (and taller) person or something. This wheel was made for Texans I think! :efefa6edcf:

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16 minutes ago, edwin_rm said:

It's not about lifting it, but rather, it is difficult for me to maneuver it how i'd like due to my body being too lightweight for it. That is a problem also for accelerating uphill. I'll sell it to a heavier (and taller) person or something. This wheel was made for Texans I think! :efefa6edcf:

Oh i get you! Yeah, im on the heavier side, at 220ish now. Losing weight but still. about 5'10ish last i checked, haha. I feel like the weight of that wheel would still be quite a lot even for me, haha. But sometimes when im riding the 18XL feels too light LOL...its kinda weird, i just wish there was a little more resistance sometimes. I guess for the hill climbing, thats why EUC guy made them power pads

 

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The seat has changed the game so much for me, I miss it when I ride any other EUC now! I have the 1600Wh 84v version with the new 2000W motor, which feels noticeably lighter than the 2400Wh version, but I still love it. It also handles potholes at speed like a champ! It doesn't have a ton of torque, but I've done a large pedal mod to get a bit of handling and power back. In an ideal world, I would sell this one and upgrade to the upcoming Monster 2 100v version when it comes out, but I think it'll be a while since I'm most likely going to wait for Jason at ewheels to stock it.

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Out of all the new wheels coming out i so want a new wheel 16x /nikola ,but the range 1600wh i use the battery up in 2/3 hours so now I'm thinking about the monster v3 , I'm 90+kg and like to throw the msx around i wonder if i could do that with the monster , I'd definitely use the range ,i so wanted the 16x but now I'm attracted to the monster,,i need to think 🤔

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13 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

The seat has changed the game so much for me, I miss it when I ride any other EUC now! I have the 1600Wh 84v version with the new 2000W motor, which feels noticeably lighter than the 2400Wh version, but I still love it. It also handles potholes at speed like a champ! It doesn't have a ton of torque, but I've done a large pedal mod to get a bit of handling and power back. In an ideal world, I would sell this one and upgrade to the upcoming Monster 2 100v version when it comes out, but I think it'll be a while since I'm most likely going to wait for Jason at ewheels to stock it.

Oh, i have to ask...what is the difference between 84v and 100v? I only really understand that the wh is our battery life. More = longer ride. And all that other stuff. Then the Watt motors giving us that speed and strength to keep my fat ass afloat. But then where does this voltage come in andd what does it do?

And i see. So its harder to get up steep inclines and takes off a bit slower? My 18XL is pretty damn quick off the mark, but i do try not to overlean it too much. But im at 40kmph before I know it these days. Its really easy. 

But yeah, i think that seat is really the big seller for me, haha. Sometimes when im riding I just wish i could sit down for a second, rest my legs for a quick moment on a straight, then get back and continue. And I cant do that right now. 

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13 hours ago, stephen said:

Out of all the new wheels coming out i so want a new wheel 16x /nikola ,but the range 1600wh i use the battery up in 2/3 hours so now I'm thinking about the monster v3 , I'm 90+kg and like to throw the msx around i wonder if i could do that with the monster , I'd definitely use the range ,i so wanted the 16x but now I'm attracted to the monster,,i need to think 🤔

The 16X looks amazing, and the nikola...its...interesting, lmao. But i heard it really performs. Marty seems to be loving it. And wait, you can eat up that much battery in 2-3 hours? What type of riding are you doing and how fast are you going? Haha. I think by time the monster 2 comes out and the 16x, i still wont have the money for either, so that gives me lots of time to decide. Lets wait for the reviewers and speedy youtubers to get em and see what they think. Unless you're in a place where you can go test them. 

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2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

A Monster class wheel is a must for me. It's the only EUC that feels more closer to riding a full-size motorcycle or similar; the wheel diameter combined with the pedal height gives it that feel I think (although recent smaller wheels have matched or surpassed this pedal height I believe).

I've never ridden a motorcycle, but I can understand what you mean in theory, just from the specs and trying to relate it to what ive used thus far.

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

For potholes, the larger diameter tire relatively shrinks the same potholes that would eat up a smaller EUC wheel.

I can understand the importance of this being in NY, haha. I know for me, the difference just from 16 to 18 with the wider tire was astonishing. I cant imagine just how much that 23' wide tire would change things. I mean, end of the world potholes would still take it out, but those take out any vehicle. I worry a lot less riding my 18 these days. Still got them eyes peeled tho, haha. 

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

The lack of torque everyone usually claims is only partially true IMHO. The combination of softer pedal mode response (relatively across all modes), combined with the occasional pedal dipping, give it this feel when you try to accelerate from dead stop in one continuous lean. But if you know how to ride the softer Gotway modes, you can get significant torque from dead stop by either pumping alternating left-right, diagonal pedal leans (like a cyclist heavy pedaling a bicycle), or just flat-out sitting on the nose of the Monster, which releases an acceleration torque you would not believe (I often use this latter method when I need a fast kick out of waiting for a light, etc).

Thanks for explaining this part. I've heard that kingsongs hard mode is softer than gotways soft? So would that comparison work with the monster? Im used to pedal dips and so on from kingsong. But the leaned acceleration works well, so im assuming the monster is a bit softer than even that. I actually do that pumping thing sometimes. I didn't know it was a real thing people used to ride, i thought it was just a weird habit i picked up. And the sitting on the nose thing. Does it not feel scary? Like you might lose grip and slip forward? Or is that torque you gain from it actually pushing you back onto the seat? I only ask because of how the seat fits over the handle, its not like a built in thing, so im assuming it can tip if you're on an edge? (I have no visual proof of this, genuinely asking since it looks like it).

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

And the heaviness of the Monster is real; you cannot "throw it around" as you say. But like I constantly preach on the forums, if you go wide feet (like hugging the pedal edges) and keep your lean motions stacked to the wheel body's middle plain, it becomes much easier to move as you would on a much smaller EUC.

Ive been riding faster these days. Hitting 40kmph - 45kmph pretty easily on smooth streets that i know in my city (I dont really hit this downtown as i dont like to risk it) but my stance is pretty close to the body these day. Heels usually touching. Sometimes the inside of my foot touches. But its actually been really tiring lately because ive adopted a more engaged/active stance. Lower, more bent knees to take any unsuspecting bump (Pure burn in my thighs). Im gonna try to widen my stance again, even though sometimes it freaks me out like im gonna bounce off the pedals, haha. I took a video from behind me and realized just how much space on the damn pedals i had. Gonna practice a bit! Possibly get more control out of my current wheel XD

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

And also, no one's mentioned, but going 35mph on the 22" Monster tire feels much safer to me than going 35mph on the 18" MSX tire, etc., ie. I reach +5mph with relative ease better than I would on smaller wheels, where I tend to go slower.

Dag...35??? I cant even hit my wheels top speed yet. But then again...I guess that weight, that tire, probably helps give a ton of stability. Plus not having to worry about smaller road imperfections launching you. But still, thats crazy. Do you get up to those speeds during a commute on the road? Or only in quieter areas? 

 

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Plus, there is the seated aspect, which is one of my favs. I ride seated for the foot comfort/stress alleviation, yes. But I also ride seated for unlocking instant torque, as mentioned above, and will ride seated in situations where I'm riding slowly amongst pedestrians, where shortening my height and overall perceived size, will lessen the size prejudice reactions amongst the onlookers. (I've ridden slowly while standing on Monster and/or KS18S, and some will act like I'm riding a damn motorcycle on the sidewalk, jumping out of the way).

Ive seen you pop up in videos and you're always sitting and chilling, haha. After riding for a while and dealing with foot pain, im kinda upset i didnt go for something with a seat, but i'll be happy in the future with my XL and a monster, haha. And yeah! I get that even on my wheel with people jumping aside. Or like pressing themselves up against a wall. I guess i can kinda understand, as a pedestrian, watching someone on a moving step stool, lmfao. rolling stilts travel past em. 

 

And thank you for the explanation! I really should do more research into the technical side of things if I want to keep riding. 

Anyways, thanks man! Always love your breakdowns on things. I just had to respond to every point, haha. Feel free to skip some of my questions if you do get a moment to respond to any at all XD. 

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7 hours ago, seage said:

And wait, you can eat up that much battery in 2-3 hours? What type of riding are you doing and how fast are you going

Just riding on the road , up and down few inclines , i don't like the battery after 25% it beeps, i don't like beeps🙄, usually 2 hours and I'm finished ☹️Screenshot-20190607-064608-com-android-g

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36 minutes ago, stephen said:

Just riding on the road , up and down few inclines , i don't like the battery after 25% it beeps, i don't like beeps🙄, usually 2 hours and I'm finished ☹️

Ahhhh, you're much faster than me. You went 50km in 2 hours. I barely do 30 at this point. Or at least last time i went out. I can get a whole day out of this thing. But then when im doing the longer rides, its got a lot of shifting speeds. Going slower to get around people, starting and stopping, so on. Seems you've got some pretty good places to ride though. 

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10 hours ago, seage said:

I've never ridden a motorcycle, but I can understand what you mean in theory, just from the specs and trying to relate it to what ive used thus far.

Neither have I! But one can imagine.... :lol:

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

I can understand the importance of this being in NY, haha. I know for me, the difference just from 16 to 18 with the wider tire was astonishing. I cant imagine just how much that 23' wide tire would change things. I mean, end of the world potholes would still take it out, but those take out any vehicle. I worry a lot less riding my 18 these days. Still got them eyes peeled tho, haha. 

Always eyes peeled, but the 22" tire of the Monster means you don't have to pay attention to the smaller potholes.

And in your case, the switch from the 16 x 2.125 KS16S tire to the 18 x 2.5 KS18XL tire, is more about the increase in width and increase in wheel weight IMHO. We've compared similar weight & width'd V10F vs KS18L, and MSX vs Nikola, and the overall tire feels are very similar.

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

Thanks for explaining this part. I've heard that kingsongs hard mode is softer than gotways soft? So would that comparison work with the monster? Im used to pedal dips and so on from kingsong. But the leaned acceleration works well, so im assuming the monster is a bit softer than even that.

Not exactly.

In general, the softest Gotway modes (not all Gotway models have the same degree of soft response for Soft mode) are much softer a response then King Song, ala the ultimate soft mode in the OG MSV3, where the pedals swing with almost no resistance.

But this is not just what Gotway soft mode is about. While EUCs like King Song & InMotion models do a simplistic and linear soft mode where the initiation of the pedals are soft, with a 'gummy' response after-tail, the best Gotway soft modes I feel mimic a bicycle on higher gears, where the initiation is harder, but the response after-tail is much softer, so you can kind of "pedal" your Gotway in a manner similar to how bike pedals have resistance up high as you press them down, but the downswing is soft due to being in a higher gear.

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

I actually do that pumping thing sometimes. I didn't know it was a real thing people used to ride, i thought it was just a weird habit i picked up. 

This is good IMHO.

There are limitations on safe leaning I think, where regular stand-leaning limits the amount of force we can put on the wheel pedal fronts, even when very powerful wheels, like the Monster, can take considerably more leaning force.

Also, for the slower dead stop acceleration wheels, and lesser powered wheels, pumping is a much more effective, more nuanced control way to build up acceleration in a hurry. Trying to do this in one continuous acceleration is limiting because you no longer have the full swing distance of the pedals, and the wheel has a split second to almost "switch gears" into higher speeds, ala shifting a car.

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

And the sitting on the nose thing. Does it not feel scary? Like you might lose grip and slip forward? Or is that torque you gain from it actually pushing you back onto the seat? I only ask because of how the seat fits over the handle, its not like a built in thing, so im assuming it can tip if you're on an edge? (I have no visual proof of this, genuinely asking since it looks like it).

Not scary at all, but you have to take seated riding slowly in general, step-by-step I think.

For my nose-sit accelerations, I sit up on the wheel, but my leaning palm-on-seat planted hand also sits a little more up front, allowing me to lean on that arm to aid driving the force on the wheel nose. And my butt is always flush on the seat, no hanging off or anything.

Also, on these nose-sit accelerations, I have my knees bent with feet middle flats on the front edges of the pedals, and as I pivot and point my toes more to the ground, this pulls my posterior tighter down into the nose, increasing force and acceleration.

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

Ive been riding faster these days. Hitting 40kmph - 45kmph pretty easily on smooth streets that i know in my city (I dont really hit this downtown as i dont like to risk it)

Nice!

For the most part, I usually live around 45kph, but the bigger Monster 22" will always increase those comfort cruise speeds up by at least 5kph in my experience.

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

but my stance is pretty close to the body these day. Heels usually touching. Sometimes the inside of my foot touches. But its actually been really tiring lately because ive adopted a more engaged/active stance. Lower, more bent knees to take any unsuspecting bump (Pure burn in my thighs). Im gonna try to widen my stance again, even though sometimes it freaks me out like im gonna bounce off the pedals, haha. I took a video from behind me and realized just how much space on the damn pedals i had. Gonna practice a bit! Possibly get more control out of my current wheel XD

The ultimate goal I think is to have a relaxed motion, where your feet rock back and forth in opposing directions, trading weight emphasis, and your upper body and hips (according to the maneuver) are angling in a manner so that you are using pure bodyweight to influence the wheel, not any kind of active muscular force.

The best stance IMHO is to be in an athletic, reasonably wide stance, regardless of what the pedals say, and to push the pedals when the wheel body is at an angle (left wheel body lean means right pedal push), so that you have both maximum stability and leverage.

One of the problems I see doing the ankles-against-the-wheel-body, toes-out stance is that you are facing the foot arches to the fronts of the pedals, which will involve them in the force lean, when really only the meet of the forefoot should press, and the tensing up of feet arches are the source of foot pain/fatigue while riding. Not to mention, you cannot really do opposing foot rocks in that position, as only involving one forefoot and one heel at-a-time, also helps prevent foot arches tensing up.

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

Dag...35??? I cant even hit my wheels top speed yet. But then again...I guess that weight, that tire, probably helps give a ton of stability. Plus not having to worry about smaller road imperfections launching you. But still, thats crazy. Do you get up to those speeds during a commute on the road? Or only in quieter areas? 

Mind you, this is not all the time, just when I'm in a situation that calls for this higher speed, like passing car traffic, etc.

And yes, there is definitely a very planted feeling on the Monster, I think primarily due to the weight.

 

10 hours ago, seage said:

Anyways, thanks man! Always love your breakdowns on things. I just had to respond to every point, haha. Feel free to skip some of my questions if you do get a moment to respond to any at all XD. 

Thanks! Been in-and-out of the forums these days due to boring work stuff, but explaining stuff like this helps me, myself figure out why I do the technique I've stumbled upon and reached semi-intuitively (subconscious ski technique hakcs) but don't immediately know why.

 

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8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Always eyes peeled, but the 22" tire of the Monster means you don't have to pay attention to the smaller potholes.

And in your case, the switch from the 16 x 2.125 KS16S tire to the 18 x 2.5 KS18XL tire, is more about the increase in width and increase in wheel weight IMHO. We've compared similar weight & width'd V10F vs KS18L, and MSX vs Nikola, and the overall tire feels are very similar.

Oh i see. I didnt think about it like that. Although the width DID really affect how the wheel handled when I first got it. It was super trippy riding it around a corner for the first time, let me tell you. And offroad feels different too.

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Not exactly.

In general, the softest Gotway modes (not all Gotway models have the same degree of soft response for Soft mode) are much softer a response then King Song, ala the ultimate soft mode in the OG MSV3, where the pedals swing with almost no resistance.

But this is not just what Gotway soft mode is about. While EUCs like King Song & InMotion models do a simplistic and linear soft mode where the initiation of the pedals are soft, with a 'gummy' response after-tail, the best Gotway soft modes I feel mimic a bicycle on higher gears, where the initiation is harder, but the response after-tail is much softer, so you can kind of "pedal" your Gotway in a manner similar to how bike pedals have resistance up high as you press them down, but the downswing is soft due to being in a higher gear.

I can understand how some folks might not be able to get used to that. When you explain it its kinda scary, haha. But when I imagine it in my head, it makes sense. It must not be that bad considering everyone says its super comfortable at speed. I need to come out there and ride with you at some point, just to see a lot of this stuff in action. I feel like I'd learn a lot. And ive heard people talk about the soft mode on the msv3 and how some people loved it to death. I'll most def have to place my wheel into soft mode, then try a gotway on softmode and experience the difference. So far ive tried an msx on a harder mode and even that felt supppper different from my wheel.

 

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

This is good IMHO.

There are limitations on safe leaning I think, where regular stand-leaning limits the amount of force we can put on the wheel pedal fronts, even when very powerful wheels, like the Monster, can take considerably more leaning force.

Also, for the slower dead stop acceleration wheels, and lesser powered wheels, pumping is a much more effective, more nuanced control way to build up acceleration in a hurry. Trying to do this in one continuous acceleration is limiting because you no longer have the full swing distance of the pedals, and the wheel has a split second to almost "switch gears" into higher speeds, ala shifting a car.

I actually started doing your wider stance - pushing to the outer edges of the pedal and that start helped a lot more as i needed to be pretty heavy on my toes to accelerate from 0 the leaning way. Im understanding these concepts in theory. It'll be interesting to see/experience in the future hopefully. I have a lot of "aha!" moments listening to you, haha. So many "ohhh, so this is what he was talking about!" moments. XD

 

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Not scary at all, but you have to take seated riding slowly in general, step-by-step I think.

For my nose-sit accelerations, I sit up on the wheel, but my leaning palm-on-seat planted hand also sits a little more up front, allowing me to lean on that arm to aid driving the force on the wheel nose. And my butt is always flush on the seat, no hanging off or anything.

Also, on these nose-sit accelerations, I have my knees bent with feet middle flats on the front edges of the pedals, and as I pivot and point my toes more to the ground, this pulls my posterior tighter down into the nose, increasing force and acceleration.

I want to mod my wheel and put a lil bootleg seat on it, but ive heard that the case is not made to take sitting so it might damage it, so i guess i'll just wait. 

Have you ever experienced an overlean from sitting? Like, where you slipped? Since dipping your toes like that sounds like you could catch. But working smoothly, as its probably actually been, i can see how that would make you accelerate really fast. You're immediately in a dip, and with your center of gravity lowered, the wheel doesnt have to work as hard keeping you up, and you can stay leaning forward longer. But this is just what im picturing in my mind from your description.

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Nice!

For the most part, I usually live around 45kph, but the bigger Monster 22" will always increase those comfort cruise speeds up by at least 5kph in my experience.

Thanks man XD. Im getting to the 40kmph all the time point. Probably gonna jump to 45 soon. But in the city with those potholes, im doing like 30kmph haha. I just dont risk it. Gonna work my way up. Slow and steady wins the race, right? 

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

The ultimate goal I think is to have a relaxed motion, where your feet rock back and forth in opposing directions, trading weight emphasis, and your upper body and hips (according to the maneuver) are angling in a manner so that you are using pure bodyweight to influence the wheel, not any kind of active muscular force.

The best stance IMHO is to be in an athletic, reasonably wide stance, regardless of what the pedals say, and to push the pedals when the wheel body is at an angle (left wheel body lean means right pedal push), so that you have both maximum stability and leverage.

One of the problems I see doing the ankles-against-the-wheel-body, toes-out stance is that you are facing the foot arches to the fronts of the pedals, which will involve them in the force lean, when really only the meet of the forefoot should press, and the tensing up of feet arches are the source of foot pain/fatigue while riding. Not to mention, you cannot really do opposing foot rocks in that position, as only involving one forefoot and one heel at-a-time, also helps prevent foot arches tensing up.

 

Alright, so I tested the stance today, pulled out the gopro and went for a ride. First off, holy... the wheels dynamics changed so much. The amount of control i had over it, over turning, carving. The way i accelerated was different, being on my toes and not locked into the wheel. It was a little scary at first but I started to love it. For a bit i got some pain in my left (strong) foot, on the outside. But i tightened my laces so that my foot wouldnt move around in my shoe, and the pain seemed to go away. But i did only do 8km just to play with it. 

I think i was riding in a similar way on my 16, but when I switched to the 18, it was much heavier, i got speed wobble, i adopted a stance that would kinda keep the wheel under me. Keep me locked to it. But i found that my legs were getting tired, adn like you said, my arches were aching quickly because they were being used. I felt that I didnt even engage that area when i rode around earlier. 

A big thing i noticed was that i was able to smoothly push off to start riding without my arms shooting all over the place. Usually when i took off these days it was less than smooth. I blamed this on the weight of the wheel. Being super wobbly. But this time it was easy to glide and place my foot on the pedal. Need to get used to my feet being straight/knees turned in slightly, but overall I love the feel and I want to keep practicing until it feels right. I remember before I would always line up my foot on the outside of the pedal like this. I only stopped because the wheel felt like it was gonna fall over, but ive finished all that weight conditioning. I have a video from 2 days ago, where I realized my legs were super locked against the wheel, and my heels were right inside with no space. And then one from today where im trying the wide stance. Gonna do a quick edit and post it in here.

 

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Mind you, this is not all the time, just when I'm in a situation that calls for this higher speed, like passing car traffic, etc.

And yes, there is definitely a very planted feeling on the Monster, I think primarily due to the weight.

 

I understand. I think we have to ride pretty actively, judging the best times for what and not get hung up or addicted to just going fast all the time. I think that rush can lead us to accidents. 

 

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Thanks! Been in-and-out of the forums these days due to boring work stuff, but explaining stuff like this helps me, myself figure out why I do the technique I've stumbled upon and reached semi-intuitively (subconscious ski technique hakcs) but don't immediately know why.

Well im glad! I've been pretty blocked with work. Gotta do this big ass illustration and its kicking my ass. But i feel you man. Its the same reason I make a thousand videos and dont even post them. Its so i can figure out why i do what i do and see if they actually help, haha.

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1 hour ago, seage said:

Thanks man XD. Im getting to the 40kmph all the time point. Probably gonna jump to 45 soon. But in the city with those potholes, im doing like 30kmph haha. I just dont risk it. Gonna work my way up. Slow and steady wins the race, right? 

see, didnt i tell you when you first got your 16s that soon 40 kph will be normal :P you didnt believe me at the time haha

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17 hours ago, seage said:

I need to come out there and ride with you at some point, just to see a lot of this stuff in action. I feel like I'd learn a lot.

Sure, we get out-of-towners quite a bit now, albeit from a bit closer, like Boston or MD. Although, even up close, it's a bit hard to catch exactly how people ride, but I try to explain as much as I do on the forums.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

And ive heard people talk about the soft mode on the msv3 and how some people loved it to death. I'll most def have to place my wheel into soft mode, then try a gotway on softmode and experience the difference. So far ive tried an msx on a harder mode and even that felt supppper different from my wheel.

I haven't found the modes on non-Gotways all that helpful or much different from their respective harder modes.

MSV3 is probably the ultimate Gotway soft mode, very soft response, with a good range of swing for the 18 tire. MSX is a bit of a bad example of Gotway soft modes IMHO, as it's all just hard across the board, one of my pet peeve's of that wheel.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

I actually started doing your wider stance - pushing to the outer edges of the pedal and that start helped a lot more as i needed to be pretty heavy on my toes to accelerate from 0 the leaning way. Im understanding these concepts in theory. It'll be interesting to see/experience in the future hopefully. I have a lot of "aha!" moments listening to you, haha. So many "ohhh, so this is what he was talking about!" moments. XD

That's good!

Yes, more on toes, or better, really on your forefoot, like how point guard do in basketball, or proper runners do, very little heel strike. And always only need one foot doing that at a time, the other will heel-stabilize.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

I want to mod my wheel and put a lil bootleg seat on it, but ive heard that the case is not made to take sitting so it might damage it, so i guess i'll just wait. 

Yes, I've seen enough reports from other riders on the 18L/XL shell cracking near the pedal arms, that I would not recommend seated on that wheel, especially with heavier rider load.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

Have you ever experienced an overlean from sitting? Like, where you slipped? Since dipping your toes like that sounds like you could catch. But working smoothly, as its probably actually been, i can see how that would make you accelerate really fast. You're immediately in a dip, and with your center of gravity lowered, the wheel doesnt have to work as hard keeping you up, and you can stay leaning forward longer. But this is just what im picturing in my mind from your description.

No slippage because I'm always making sure to stay relatively stacked upright over the middle wheel center vertical plane, but I did trigger my old KS18S's overpower warning on uphills twice.

I also slow seed fell from riding on my old KS18A seated, but that was because there was something inherently not right with my frankenstein upgrading it to an AY+ board.

The seated torque is just a more effective way to press a forward lean progressively harder than when standing, in a smooth & controlled manner, without superman leaning out of the center stacked vertical plane.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

Thanks man XD. Im getting to the 40kmph all the time point. Probably gonna jump to 45 soon. But in the city with those potholes, im doing like 30kmph haha. I just dont risk it. Gonna work my way up. Slow and steady wins the race, right? 

Take your time, no rush. My speed came more subconsciously when I started riding more amongst car traffic.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

Alright, so I tested the stance today, pulled out the gopro and went for a ride. First off, holy... the wheels dynamics changed so much. The amount of control i had over it, over turning, carving. The way i accelerated was different, being on my toes and not locked into the wheel. It was a little scary at first but I started to love it. For a bit i got some pain in my left (strong) foot, on the outside. But i tightened my laces so that my foot wouldnt move around in my shoe, and the pain seemed to go away. But i did only do 8km just to play with it. 

Yeah, feet wiggling around in your shoes, not so good for control of the pedals.

Relatively speaking, the wheel should angle and maneuver more than your body does. You stay wide and relatively straight up, like how in balancing a pencil on your hand, the pencil is relatively still, but your hand is moving a lot to balance. Wider feet is really the only way to do this, or else you start moving being influenced by the wheels shifting.

Someone (I think on the forums) also said in a great way, it feels like you're a paintbrush, where the stick/handle is still & upright like your upper body, whereas your lower body + wheel is the brush part, swaying back and forth, painting the street.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

I think i was riding in a similar way on my 16, but when I switched to the 18, it was much heavier, i got speed wobble, i adopted a stance that would kinda keep the wheel under me. Keep me locked to it. But i found that my legs were getting tired, adn like you said, my arches were aching quickly because they were being used. I felt that I didnt even engage that area when i rode around earlier. 

I would guess maybe you're not involving your hips enough on the 18, literally shifting and turning them more dramatically than when on the smaller 16. Will almost feel like your walking from hip to hip, upper body driving the body weight directly over each hip.

 

17 hours ago, seage said:

A big thing i noticed was that i was able to smoothly push off to start riding without my arms shooting all over the place. Usually when i took off these days it was less than smooth. I blamed this on the weight of the wheel. Being super wobbly. But this time it was easy to glide and place my foot on the pedal. Need to get used to my feet being straight/knees turned in slightly, but overall I love the feel and I want to keep practicing until it feels right. I remember before I would always line up my foot on the outside of the pedal like this. I only stopped because the wheel felt like it was gonna fall over, but ive finished all that weight conditioning. I have a video from 2 days ago, where I realized my legs were super locked against the wheel, and my heels were right inside with no space. And then one from today where im trying the wide stance. Gonna do a quick edit and post it in here.

Keep messing around with feet placement, trading foot rock.

On mounting and riding in general, don't be afraid to allow the wheel to flop like it's gonna fall over, ie trying to always keep the wheel body straight and upright, as your other foot on the other pedal will always balance it out. Then, you can even start play and mess around with that side-to-side falling action of the wheel.

 

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This is interesting. I have noticed that EUC YouTubers that has the Monster and several other wheels, usually upload more videos of their other wheels than the Monster. This gives me an impression that the Monster is not their most used wheel, but it can ofcourse be wrong. Would be interesting to hear some more thoughts from Monster owners of how much they use it, compared to other wheels.

Do you Monster owners find it less fun to ride than smaller wheels? Do you find it less practical to use due to it's size, weight and lack of trolley handle?

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@houseofjob So i took what you said about the very little heel strike literally and made some changes. I normally ride with my pedals tilted back by about a degree or so. I went on my group ride, and as much as my arches werent hurting, the outside of my feet were, and also the base of my foot too. A lot of pressure. So yesterday i went on another long ride. More pain. I didnt take a break for 15km and my feet were killing me haha. I was always scared of that forward slipping feeling with my other stance, so i avoided a forward tilt calibration. But i realized...i mean, the way the wheel balances in the first place is by us leaning forward. It locks us into the pedals, so it would make sense that a back tilt would be more likely to bounce me off on a bump as id be kinda unbalanced on my heels. Easier to fall backwards. Tilted forward would keep me pressed against the wheel, allowing me to tackle more...severe terrain a bit better, maybe, haha. so i went with a small 1.5 degree forward tilt, and boy did it make a difference. Going over bumps it felt like i wasnt gonna bounce off the wheel, and speed bumps felt a little less intimidating. Still cant get any air, but thats on me. Im not sure if its a placebo effect and i just want to think this way. But i felt like i was more on my toes/ball of my foot and a lot of the strain and stress on the rest of my foot went away. Ive yet to try a long ride with this tilt tho, so thats the next step. And i'd like to experiment with maybe even a 3 degree forward tilt soon. What i do know is that wheel log gave me an overcurrent warning on my acceleration for the first time, lol... getting up to speed was way too easy. It tilted me briefly at 45. I need to push to like 40, chill out and gradually speed up before I superman off the front of my wheel. 

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7 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Let me clarify somewhat on this, to prevent confusion.

On the foot pain tip, you don't ever want to be in a situation where you are stressing both forefoot/toes & heels, on the same foot, because those together tense the arches, which is the definition of EUC foot pain. instead, always think of being on forefoot/toes or heels on a given foot, not both.

Thus, in order to balance things out standing on the wheel / riding, you need to think of have opposing forefoot/toes on one foot, heels on another, then constantly swapping/switching.

Hold the phone. So you mean to tell me you're constantly riding heel and toe, and shifting? And that doesnt tire you out in any capacity? I mean it makes sense, but still, damn. I know before with the back tilt i was mainly always on my heels, or totally flat footed on the pedals. The forward tilt has me moving a bit more. Still feels super comfy after a while, but i did move a lot to kinda adjust my feet around the pedals since i was searching for the "sweet spot". I may have accidentally alleviated the stress off my feet during that ride because of all the constant shifting the entire time. I thought i was messing up by doing that, but was happy to find i wasnt in crippling pain when i got home, lol... geez. 

Every day I learn something new. But mainly, how little I actually understand about riding, lmao. Thanks man.

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19 hours ago, seage said:

Hold the phone. So you mean to tell me you're constantly riding heel and toe, and shifting? And that doesnt tire you out in any capacity? I mean it makes sense, but still, damn. I know before with the back tilt i was mainly always on my heels, or totally flat footed on the pedals. The forward tilt has me moving a bit more. Still feels super comfy after a while, but i did move a lot to kinda adjust my feet around the pedals since i was searching for the "sweet spot". I may have accidentally alleviated the stress off my feet during that ride because of all the constant shifting the entire time. I thought i was messing up by doing that, but was happy to find i wasnt in crippling pain when i got home, lol... geez. 

Every day I learn something new. But mainly, how little I actually understand about riding, lmao. Thanks man.

Yes. And no, it's not tiring, because I'm angling my bodyweight over that hip as the force, not muscling it. 

Ability to move the feet is key, so you'll get it I think, just keep playing with it.

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