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Marty Backe

My 84-volt Nikola Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree my test is not fully realistic

If you do it in real life, it is realistic.

Fully agree with the rest. Wheels must survive 99.99% percentile extreme cases, not the average rider or what some low-weight Chinese falsely believe that is.

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2 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Didn’t you take the 18XL on that hill and it kicked you off? That’s the behavior I’m talking about. I don’t know about older kingsongs, my comment was not about brands. 

And you are right about the extremes. I’m one of those people also who like to go to extremes and want to know that my wheel will perform well. That’s why I like that you do these tests. :thumbup:

I don’t have any hills like that over here but I often ride on very difficult trails that can be demanding on the wheel. I think my point is that I’d like to go anywhere without having to think about whether the wheel can manage. One way to know is having seen you do it first but it’s also really nice to know that the wheel won’t let me ever go so far that it will fail and I have to carry it out of the woods while dripping blood from my face :wacko:

I know you weren't talking about brands. I was just pointing out that any wheel can still cause a faceplant in similar conditions to my hill but you were implying that should never happen. Either the wheel will just quit (Z10), blow MOSFETs (Gotway), or blow fuses (Kingsong and I believe Inmotion). In all case you are going down.

Otherwise we are basically in agreement.

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I expect any circa 2019 performance wheel to fully survive something like my tests. If it doesn't it's an inferior wheel.

Damn straight Marty.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I know you weren't talking about brands. I was just pointing out that any wheel can still cause a faceplant in similar conditions to my hill but you were implying that should never happen. Either the wheel will just quit (Z10), blow MOSFETs (Gotway), or blow fuses (Kingsong and I believe Inmotion). In all case you are going down.

Otherwise we are basically in agreement.

I’m pretty sure that @UniVehje’s point was that despite the fuses being used in the 18XL, you didn’t go down when it overheated at overheat hill.

I haven’t read very meticulously about 18XL experiences, but has anyone actually blown a fuse during a ride?

Edited by mrelwood

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A+ what a wild ride.

So glad I bought MSX instead having to wait for these newer wheels.

 

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7 minutes ago, Phil McLaughlin said:

The thanks goes to you for potentially sparing me and others a trip down the road on our faces! Yes I have been keeping Jason in the loop on my rebuild. In truth it is sooo hard to get a product right until a few thousand units get out the door. I am more disappointed then angry. I guess I am a fellow Stoic.

:thumbup:

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This type of problem should be of no surprise as its from a first batch. Every first batch run of every model has problems. The glue was simply used because they were in a hurry to rush their new 16 incher to market before KingSong, many elements of the Nicola seem rushed. The glue is not really the issue anyways, the small MOSFETs are the issue. The glue can simply be skipped for future batches, but those small MOSFETs are there in the design of the 84V.

Future buyers may not be able to see if glue was used, but they can see the small MOSFETs. Who will trust them now...will it blow after 100 miles, 500miles, 1000 miles?!!! Small MOSFETs are a KNOWN problem and again right out of the gate we see a faceplant captured on camera. Marty's hill test only accelerated the burning up of the small MOSFETs before they would have blown later anyways, glue or no glue.

Small MOSFETs should be reserved for casual riding only, and with glue as a new possible risk, who would buy/ride a first batch 84V Nicola? Gotway Daredevils of course!!!

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1 hour ago, Michael Tucker said:

This type of problem should be of no surprise as its from a first batch. Every first batch run of every model has problems. The glue was simply used because they were in a hurry to rush their new 16 incher to market before KingSong, many elements of the Nicola seem rushed. The glue is not really the issue anyways, the small MOSFETs are the issue. The glue can simply be skipped for future batches, but those small MOSFETs are there in the design of the 84V.

Future buyers may not be able to see if glue was used, but they can see the small MOSFETs. Who will trust them now...will it blow after 100 miles, 500miles, 1000 miles?!!! Small MOSFETs are a KNOWN problem and again right out of the gate we see a faceplant captured on camera. Marty's hill test only accelerated the burning up of the small MOSFETs before they would have blown later anyways, glue or no glue.

Small MOSFETs should be reserved for casual riding only, and with glue as a new possible risk, who would buy/ride a first batch 84V Nicola? Gotway Daredevils of course!!!

So Is there a chance they will come out with a replacement board with better design and the larger MOSFETS ?  soon ???  I just got my nikola back tonight    rode it for about an hour. I didn't get off work until midnight.. but it felt great... way  better than before. I think my board was wonky from the getgo. but it feels even better now.  so I'm gonna ride it. but ill use it for my commuting for now   now HARD riding till i hear more about how safe it is.  Im terrified of a cutout in traffic at thirty mph   that would suck.. for a second or two..... 

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6 hours ago, Phil McLaughlin said:

As the guy who placed the first order for an 84V Nikola from @Jason McNeil and was riding one from the first batch, I was concerned when @Marty Backe reported the burnout of his control board. After seeing the pictures I parked the wheel until I could find the time to tear it down and inspect the control board (good to have other wheels to ride :)). A long career in electronics design and manufacturing made me suspect that this was an assembly "innovation" not a one-off quality slip. Before disassembly my Nikola was riding flawlessly showing no signs of a problem. (By the way this wheel is WONDERFUL!) I had only put about 90 miles on the wheel before parking it. My rides were local rides on paved roads with rolling hills and max speeds of about 26 mph (42 kph). So... not much stress on this wheel. I have attached a picture of my control board that shows glue residue on the MOSFETs but no apparent thermal damage to the board or MOSFETs. As previously commented in this thread the presence of a substance that is a very efficient thermal INSULATOR on the MOSFET heat transfer surface is a big problem. I will be rebuilding the wheel on Monday after correcting the defect and bringing the thermal management up to what I consider an acceptable level. I will post a video of the rebuild for anyone interested in a DIY solution.

So far when anyone has looked they found glue. Just another data point...

IMG_0474.jpg

Cant wait for the video.. doubt i"d have the Tech knowledge to pull it off but ... maybe :)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Michael Tucker said:

This type of problem should be of no surprise as its from a first batch. Every first batch run of every model has problems. The glue was simply used because they were in a hurry to rush their new 16 incher to market before KingSong, many elements of the Nicola seem rushed. The glue is not really the issue anyways, the small MOSFETs are the issue. The glue can simply be skipped for future batches, but those small MOSFETs are there in the design of the 84V.

Future buyers may not be able to see if glue was used, but they can see the small MOSFETs. Who will trust them now...will it blow after 100 miles, 500miles, 1000 miles?!!! Small MOSFETs are a KNOWN problem and again right out of the gate we see a faceplant captured on camera. Marty's hill test only accelerated the burning up of the small MOSFETs before they would have blown later anyways, glue or no glue.

Small MOSFETs should be reserved for casual riding only, and with glue as a new possible risk, who would buy/ride a first batch 84V Nicola? Gotway Daredevils of course!!!

I just have to say.. the ONLY reason i was okay with buying a first run GOTWAY was because their last two wheels (mcm5 and MsuperX) had NO failures reported .. so i figured it was safe  .  maybe i heard wrong but   thats what i thought  so yeah,   A little disappointed.

Edited by Lucas Alexander Oliver
spelling

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3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

This level of professionalism and customer service should be a norm for all EUC manufacturers.  Unfortunately that not the case. 

I sincerely hope that Jason does not end up bearing the burden and expense repairing the Nikola because of GW’s maladroit technicians failure to assemble the main board properly. 

I do agree that manufacturers should look a bit further ahead and nurse their brand and products more. Especially since these are not around the corner shop or services. 

As for Jason I think it depends on 2 things, under what agreement products are traded, and how goor or tens the relationship is.

You saw what happened with 9B, some could easily happen with GW too for a period at least. 

Or it could go like Ian from speedy feet, not buy 1st batch products. 

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8 hours ago, Phil McLaughlin said:

As the guy who placed the first order for an 84V Nikola from @Jason McNeil and was riding one from the first batch, I was concerned when @Marty Backe reported the burnout of his control board. After seeing the pictures I parked the wheel until I could find the time to tear it down and inspect the control board (good to have other wheels to ride :)). A long career in electronics design and manufacturing made me suspect that this was an assembly "innovation" not a one-off quality slip. Before disassembly my Nikola was riding flawlessly showing no signs of a problem. (By the way this wheel is WONDERFUL!) I had only put about 90 miles on the wheel before parking it. My rides were local rides on paved roads with rolling hills and max speeds of about 26 mph (42 kph). So... not much stress on this wheel. I have attached a picture of my control board that shows glue residue on the MOSFETs but no apparent thermal damage to the board or MOSFETs. As previously commented in this thread the presence of a substance that is a very efficient thermal INSULATOR on the MOSFET heat transfer surface is a big problem. I will be rebuilding the wheel on Monday after correcting the defect and bringing the thermal management up to what I consider an acceptable level. I will post a video of the rebuild for anyone interested in a DIY solution.

So far when anyone has looked they found glue. Just another data point...

IMG_0474.jpg

I assume you know about the potential time bomb of correcting this and riding it with this board?  Those 6 mosfets have likely been stressed by operating hot and could fail easier than normal. 

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3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Or it could go like Ian from speedy feet, not buy 1st batch products

Speedyfeet already has the nikola in stock ,i don't think he'll like this for his sales

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29 minutes ago, stephen said:

Speedyfeet already has the nikola in stock ,i don't think he'll like this for his sales

I sent him a quick warning yesterday. Not sure if he got it, I didn't get the usual auto-reply email.

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