Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 27, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Kens said: Don't worry Igotchubro!!! Hide contents That's so funny. You literally have his whole ride. I think what I would have done is ride the 16S and trolley the Nikola - probably less bending over. Or better yet, why not practice your KingSong Guy skills and ride both wheels at the same time 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 19 hours ago, Unventor said: @US69 I know what we discuss here is about GW but the mechanic behind it would be similar for KS. absolutly! 17 hours ago, Nils said: To begin with I can only concur with your wishes that we had a EU Jason - but as far as I'm aware we don't. If you're in the US, then either buy from this very good proven dealer or choose the price cut and deal with any fall-out, perhaps pretty much on yourself. For us others, it seems to be a choice of buying from some hopefully-not-to-bad dealer or choosing the price cut and dealing with any fall-out, perhaps pretty much yourself. We dont have a EU Jason...but we have quit some very good Dealers and even better repairshops…..for european i can Always recommend 1Radwerkstatt.de 17 hours ago, Unventor said: @US69 for that that task, as it is anything but easy to bridge culture and customer / company relationship. "not easy" is a real Understatement 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzlchef Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Marty Backe said: That's so funny. You literally have his whole ride. I think what I would have done is ride the 16S and trolley the Nikola - probably less bending over. Or better yet, why not practice your KingSong Guy skills and ride both wheels at the same time I keep forgetting that every moment of these group rides is documented. I need to be a little more careful how I act. I thought about riding both down the hill but didn’t want to trigger another paramedic! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Kens said: Don't worry Igotchubro!!! Hide contents What we really see here, how to practice riding with knees bend. So that you do better once you start to go off-road later. And the great part is recharging the KS in the process 👍😏 (news can always be twisted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 28, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2019 New Board On The Way Jason (EWheels) has just received the new control board(s). It's heading my way today and I'll be installing it on Tuesday. Really looking forward to it. Look at those beautiful new MOSFETs 9 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasP Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) "beautiful new MOSFETs" Beautiful by spec, maybe, but that assembly still looks like a mess. It's shocking to me how slapped together these things always look in EUCs. Edited June 28, 2019 by AtlasP 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: New Board On The Way Jason (EWheels) has just received the new control board(s). It's heading my way today and I'll be installing it on Tuesday. Really looking forward to it. Look at those beautiful new MOSFETs Are they the bigger mosfets ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, stephen said: Are they the bigger mosfets ? Of course. That's what I just wrote, and can't you see them in the pictures? It's a beautiful looking board 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, AtlasP said: "beautiful new MOSFETs" Beautiful by spec, maybe, but that assembly still looks like a mess. It's shocking to me how slapped together these things always look in EUCs. Some people never want to be satisfied 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: New Board On The Way Jason (EWheels) has just received the new control board(s). It's heading my way today and I'll be installing it on Tuesday. Really looking forward to it. Look at those beautiful new MOSFETs But where is the kindle? An how on earth are you to light the bbq now for your hotdogs? you know we discussed the use of free space in the wheel, so you had lunch ready at the trail sumit. waiting for a new video.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Of course. That's what I just wrote, and can't you see them in the pictures? It's a beautiful looking board the other once was burned, these have scilicone/locktight on them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stephen Posted June 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Of course. That's what I just wrote, and can't you see them in the pictures? It's a beautiful looking board I've only just learnt what a mosfet islol 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AtlasP Posted June 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, stephen said: I've only just learnt what a mosfet islol That's ok, apparently so has Gotway/their assemblers. ;-> 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Vo Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Is @Jason McNeil sending out to all of us that got the first batch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Q Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: New Board On The Way Jason (EWheels) has just received the new control board(s). It's heading my way today and I'll be installing it on Tuesday. Really looking forward to it. Look at those beautiful new MOSFETs Awesome!!!! That is Super fast shipping from China That Big MOSFETs look GOOOOD!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Stern Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 So when will this board be standard for all new 84V Nikolas? (Just in case I need to switch my deposit from the 16x.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post esaj Posted June 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Good luck with the new board! Hope they got it "right" this time... What has always caught my eye very first seeing the boards, the KS boards are packed with components, and in comparison, the Gotway boards seem relatively "empty". I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing (either way), simple can be beautiful and completely working, and conservative approach makes less trouble over the product lifetime (there's a lot of outside factors the designers cannot affect, so "playing it safe" is not necessarily a bad idea). Gotway seems to be pushing the components much closer to their limits, whereas KS is more conservative (probably a lot of those "extra" components have to do with ensuring staying in normal operating ranges and monitoring the "health" of the entire system, they don't have that many extra features or such, of course there's the BT-audio and whatnot requiring more low voltage power supplies and whatnot). Maybe it's like KS trips over their own cleverness (like the strain gauge -issues with the KS18L lift sensor), whereas GW tries to push the limits too far (at times) and ends up with actually boards frying (well, at least in the past, not so much nowadays, this may very well be just an assembly issue and the TO-220 -board would work just fine if it weren't for those)... GW has a lot of boards with dual mosfets (12 x TO-220's), whereas KS went with 6 x TO-247 even for the KS16S (which is "only" 1200W nominal), but is nowadays considered a "lower powered" wheel. Haven't seen any more recent numbers, but at least the S used to hold the highest reliability record ("only" around 1% and change warranty issues, whereas some models from other manufacturers could have >10%). No idea on the newer models though, KS stepped into the high-power region a lot later vs. Gotway, who have pushed the envelope pretty much from the get-go. Also, the mention of not having an "EU Jason" reminded me... Jason started out in the UK, before moving to Florida. I'm pretty sure the company name was different back then, don't remember what it was though. Not a bad move, there's a much larger customer base in the US, and with the brexit looming, things are about to get hairy for UK dealers. There are big differences between the western and eastern (Chinese) culture, it's much more common for the people in China to expect some product to last much shorter time than what we've accustomed to here. They just buy a new one when the old one breaks. Taking short cuts in design and production to save relatively small amounts of money has been somewhat common practice... I've "advertised" it before, but I suggest people should read "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler, it does give an insightful view into how things work there (or used to, it was published 10 years ago) in an entertaining way. Edited June 28, 2019 by esaj 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelr Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Look at those beautiful new MOSFETs Good seeing GotWay switch to those BBMs. Bigger is definitely better 👏🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasD Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Gotway thinks silicone is oil paints and have a style of a 3 year old 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Phil McLaughlin Posted June 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: New Board On The Way Jason (EWheels) has just received the new control board(s). It's heading my way today and I'll be installing it on Tuesday. Really looking forward to it. Look at those beautiful new MOSFETs Wow! Just walked off a plane to see this. Looks Great! Aside from larger MOSFET packages, we are seeing a different thermal coupling solution. The long strip of thermal silicone that was shared by all six MOSFETs in a given row has been replaced by some type of thermal air gap solution that is individual to each MOSFET. I think that I see an edge of double sided Scotch Tape peeking out from under one of the MOSFET edges... it’s a joke... IT’S JUST A JOKE! Actually, I am guessing that they have used individual self adhesive thermal silicone pads and it looks like from this picture that the gap between the MOSFETs and the heat sink seem to be smaller. If thermal grease was being used I think that we would be able to see the mica insulators since they are always oversized to account for imperfect alignment. As shown in the tests in my videos the self-adhesive thermal pads can work quite well. Larger surface area packages coupled with a better thermal air gap solution coupled with the absence of adhesive should make a substantial improvement in temperature control. However, what goes between the MOSFET and the heatsink is at least as important as the size of the MOSFET package so I will hold off on cracking open the first celebratory beer until I see the board; there is more to this than just TO-247=GOOD. That being said this is so far looking VERY promising. can’t wait to get a closer look! I am so happy to see Gotway stepping up and taking a sledgehammer to this thermal problem. They make unique products and I really want them to be successful. Marty I am thinking that this new board may have your Nikola laughing at you all the way up Overheat Hill. 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Jon Stern said: So when will this board be standard for all new 84V Nikolas? (Just in case I need to switch my deposit from the 16x.) That's a question for @Jason McNeil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 28, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Phil McLaughlin said: Wow! Just walked off a plane to see this. Looks Great! Aside from larger MOSFET packages, we are seeing a different thermal coupling solution. The long strip of thermal silicone that was shared by all six MOSFETs in a given row has been replaced by some type of thermal air gap solution that is individual to each MOSFET. I think that I see an edge of double sided Scotch Tape peeking out from under one of the MOSFET edges... it’s a joke... IT’S JUST A JOKE! Actually, I am guessing that they have used individual self adhesive thermal silicone pads and it looks like from this picture that the gap between the MOSFETs and the heat sink seem to be smaller. If thermal grease was being used I think that we would be able to see the mica insulators since they are always oversized to account for imperfect alignment. As shown in the tests in my videos the self-adhesive thermal pads can work quite well. Larger surface area packages coupled with a better thermal air gap solution coupled with the absence of adhesive should make a substantial improvement in temperature control. However, what goes between the MOSFET and the heatsink is at least as important as the size of the MOSFET package so I will hold off on cracking open the first celebratory beer until I see the board; there is more to this than just TO-247=GOOD. That being said this is so far looking VERY promising. can’t wait to get a closer look! I am so happy to see Gotway stepping up and taking a sledgehammer to this thermal problem. They make unique products and I really want them to be successful. Marty I am thinking that this new board may have your Nikola laughing at you all the way up Overheat Hill. I won't be disassembling mine, but I'll get some close-up pictures of what they're doing with the MOSFETs. I am optimistic that my wheel is now going to be a tank that I won't have to worry about. I'm not working next week so I'll be able to repeat Overheat Hill early next week. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Phil McLaughlin said: Wow! Just walked off a plane to see this. Looks Great! Aside from larger MOSFET packages, we are seeing a different thermal coupling solution. The long strip of thermal silicone that was shared by all six MOSFETs in a given row has been replaced by some type of thermal air gap solution that is individual to each MOSFET. I think that I see an edge of double sided Scotch Tape peeking out from under one of the MOSFET edges... it’s a joke... IT’S JUST A JOKE! Actually, I am guessing that they have used individual self adhesive thermal silicone pads and it looks like from this picture that the gap between the MOSFETs and the heat sink seem to be smaller. If thermal grease was being used I think that we would be able to see the mica insulators since they are always oversized to account for imperfect alignment. As shown in the tests in my videos the self-adhesive thermal pads can work quite well. Larger surface area packages coupled with a better thermal air gap solution coupled with the absence of adhesive should make a substantial improvement in temperature control. However, what goes between the MOSFET and the heatsink is at least as important as the size of the MOSFET package so I will hold off on cracking open the first celebratory beer until I see the board; there is more to this than just TO-247=GOOD. That being said this is so far looking VERY promising. can’t wait to get a closer look! I am so happy to see Gotway stepping up and taking a sledgehammer to this thermal problem. They make unique products and I really want them to be successful. Marty I am thinking that this new board may have your Nikola laughing at you all the way up Overheat Hill. Now that you mention it (it's not a hi-res photo), I can see that the thermal sheet now looks to be much bigger than needed by the MOSFETs. So Gotway is sticking this large sheet directly to the heat-sink, thus eliminating the need for any glue/adhesive. Cool 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Marty Backe said: Now that you mention it (it's not a hi-res photo), I can see that the thermal sheet now looks to be much bigger than needed by the MOSFETs. So Gotway is sticking this large sheet directly to the heat-sink, thus eliminating the need for any glue/adhesive. Cool My 2 cents is that there shouldn't have been any need for glue/adhesive in the first place... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelr Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Now that you mention it (it's not a hi-res photo), I can see that the thermal sheet now looks to be much bigger than needed by the MOSFETs. So Gotway is sticking this large sheet directly to the heat-sink, thus eliminating the need for any glue/adhesive. Cool So what is that substance coming out from around the screws? Some sort of screw insulator, thread locker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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