Already an 2nd version of the Nikola ?!?

[Lucas Alexander Oliver]

On 5/30/2019 at 8:54 AM, Nils said:

That's the case with current 84v Nikolas as well, the voltmeter is on the side. Looks good though, and the display is small enough that trying to read it while riding is probably not a good idea..

@Nils   You own the 84 v nikola!  Are you happy with it.  Do you feel it’s sluggish.  Do you wish you’d waited or it is an awesome wheel you are happy to have. ?? I am irritated cause I was sooo excited but now I feel like Marty. I bought last years edition and am behind. Lol.   I am very interested in your opinion because you actually own the nikola 84v

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, Lucas Alexander Oliver said:

So. On Ali express I could get the nikola plus for 2700 and they say they have a 15 day shipping guarantee..  it’s from the wheel tech store    I would be willing to pay the xtra 700$ if people think it’s worth it. And if the wheel tech store is legit in their 15 day shipping and whatnot   

I wouldn't believe the 15-day shipping. Is that 15-days to your front door? I think often it means 15-days to ship and then another 2 to 4 weeks for it to get to you. When I ordered my Mten3 from China it took a bit more than 30-days before I saw it.

[AtlasP]

31 minutes ago, Lucas Alexander Oliver said:

Definitely agreed.  Why they would want to bum out their loyal and excited buyers. I cannot figure out.  I agree. I will never get excited and buy the first edition again !

Gotway exhibits the typical asian oem blitzkrieg strategy as seen with no-name Android phones--there's no sense of having a cohesive product lineup or release cadence, nor any post-sale consumer relationship or responsibility. It's just a race for specs and releasing as quickly/often as possible to try to get your money as a one-off transaction, after which you're dead to them until the next time they have a new one to sell you (a cycle they're trying to repeat as quickly as possible).

Edited June 3, 2019 by AtlasP

[Hatchet]

I'd say a pattern is established by Gotway now that we can safely say waiting on a new wheel is a good idea because they have the next version ready to ship before the first one is out the door, and I still think there are early adopter issues with QA that have to be solved usually with the next gen version, like strengthening handles, or adding/improving features. Though AFAIK they have redeemed themselves so far with the MSX release, hopefully that is the end of the cut outs etc from a component/heat view.

Remember KS also is guilty of this with the 18L. People thought the battery is too small, but were willing to overlook that because they liked the wheel and no sooner did they buy it and bam! The 18XL. I seem to remember some kind of upgrade program, not sure if that panned out. Companies should just announce all versions in the works.

I think the lesson is wait 6 months after a new wheel comes out and keep an eye on it. Chances are you'll be glad you did. Though that attitude may hurt the business.

[mrelwood]

 

23 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

To get these new 3" fatties zipping around, lots more power (low-end torque) is needed.

I suppose you are familiar with a torque wrench. Once a certain torque is applied, the ratchet slips and applies no added torque. Up to that point it has zero difference to a solid wrench that could deliver 50 times the torque until it breaks.

As we all know, surpassing the torque limit of an EUC is called an overlean.

Maybe this helps: A rider takes a 20 degree forward lean on the MCM5. Let’s say the wheel accelerates at 2 m/s^2, and uses 800 W of power. Now the same rider hops on a Monster and takes the same 20 degree forward lean. How fast does it accelerate, and how much power will it use?

23 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

they still require more power to match the same zippiness as a thin-tire Tesla.

The motor power tells only how much power can be put in the motor before it overheats at some point. It doesn’t even tell us how much power the control board is able to give out. A 1KW control board doesn’t give any more power to a 8KW motor than to a 1KW motor.

Maybe that’s what tricks peoples minds. On a car the engine is the source of power, but on an electric motor it’s what drives the motor, not the motor itself.

23 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Bigger capacitors/MOSFETs, battery, motor wattage, firmware all play a factor in real world performance.

Zippyness is not performance. It is a behaviour. And as you wrote, a 500W S2 matches a 1500W MCM5 at slower speeds on smooth ground, despite the MCM5 having triple the power and double the battery. How much more power is required to beat the S2?

[Nils]

3 hours ago, Lucas Alexander Oliver said:

@Nils   You own the 84 v nikola!  Are you happy with it.  Do you feel it’s sluggish.  Do you wish you’d waited or it is an awesome wheel you are happy to have. ?? I am irritated cause I was sooo excited but now I feel like Marty. I bought last years edition and am behind. Lol.   I am very interested in your opinion because you actually own the nikola 84v

No, I'm happy with it and I don't have any buyer's regret. Now, I got mine in the end of April, so I've already been enjoying it for some time now, perhaps I'd feel a bit differently if I was still waiting for it. Still, you have to remember that these wheels don't come with the same price tag, so it's not like I just as well could have gotten the 2100wh Nikola Plus at the same price. Even if money wasn't an object I could have bought it now and gotten it at what - end of July, August? Well there's that summer.. As for sluggishness, I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask. The Nikola is big and heavy wheel - it will never be zippy in the same way a smaller one is and I don't expect it to be either. It has power though and will climb stuff my V10F would overload just looking at. For my type of riding it's not an issue, I don't do a lot of aggressive starts for example, but it responds well if I need the acceleration for a quick pass by.

In short, bigger battery is always nice, but it does cost more as well. I don't care much about the voltage, we'll see what people say, but for the MSX the riding experience seems to be pretty much the same between 84V and 100V from what I've read. All in all, I'm a happy camper.

[Mike Sacristan]

That is quite a choice of Nikolas we have now.
Prices are from Ali. 

Nikola 84v 1600Wh - 24.4kg / 53.7 lbs - $1737 50km/h
Nikola 100v 1230Wh - 25.4kg / 56 lbs - $1872 60km/h
Nikola 84v 2100Wh - 26.4kg? / 58.2 lbs? - $2287 50km/h
Nikola+ 100v 1845Wh - 26.4kg? / 58.2 lbs? - $2368 60km/h

For reference: Gotway Monster 1600Wh = 25kg / 55.1 lbs

Weight is getting crazy. That is a lot of mass rolling forward and with a thick tyre.
The good thing about having a high top speed is that you hopefully will never reach it.

Smaller diameter of wheel = more torque / acceleration as long as power isn't a limiting factor as in a small underpowered wheel.
Larger diameter of wheel = less torque / acceleration but higher top speed and  a little bit less range.
Wider tyre and heavier wheel = wheel will want to stay upright.

So now with a 2100Wh Nikola does this open a new world of range? Not really as the KS18XL is dipping into 3.0V and giving us almost all that extra range already albeit throttled from 3.3V to 3.0V.
Will the 16x go down to 3.0V as well? In that case it will be competing with the 84v 2100Wh and not the 1600Wh imo.
Unless the Nikola dips to 3.0V. That would be something.

I only see the Nikola 84v 1600Wh and the Nikola Plus as viable options. Sacrificing range for speed on 16" that does 50km/h is more dangerous and less practical. The plus is on it's own level though with less range sacrifice being done and also a new design which to me is more attractive. But that price... that weight. Nothing is free.

I paid $1500 for my 1600wh MSuper X 2018-11-11.

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, Lucas Alexander Oliver said:

I’m getting the sense that these other editions aren’t going to change anything but top end speed and range.

I'm speculating here:

The regular old Nikola has a new board with slightly smaller mosfet packages than the MSX (TO-247) before it. The 100V Nikola* reportedly has bigger TO-247s again. I'd be very surprised if Gotway produced two different boards instead of just using the nicer TO-247 board on all future Nikolas. So there is the possibility the newer 84V Nikolas have a stronger board (mostly theoretically, you'd have to look for fringe cases where it makes a difference, I guess).

*To prevent confusion, I'm not using "Nikola Plus":

• The old 84V Nikola as initially shown has the weaker board.
• The 100V Nikola is called "Nikola Plus" and has a stronger board and a new look (all black).
• Maybe the newer produced 84V Nikolas will have the stonger board, too? Then those would be "84V Nikola Plus".

Maybe the "old" Nikola with the white accents is a thing of the past because they decided to do another iteration right after release, and from now on there's the new look, all black "Nikola Plus" (TO-247 board) in 100V or 84V variants.

Or maybe they'll stay with their old 84V board for the 84V and only the 100V gets the stronger board. But Gotway tend to use parts between wheels as much as possible, so I'm wondering.

So in short, I'm hoping we get a 84V (or 100V) huge battery Nikola with the TO-247 board.

[Lucas Alexander Oliver]

7 hours ago, Nils said:

No, I'm happy with it and I don't have any buyer's regret. Now, I got mine in the end of April, so I've already been enjoying it for some time now, perhaps I'd feel a bit differently if I was still waiting for it. Still, you have to remember that these wheels don't come with the same price tag, so it's not like I just as well could have gotten the 2100wh Nikola Plus at the same price. Even if money wasn't an object I could have bought it now and gotten it at what - end of July, August? Well there's that summer.. As for sluggishness, I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask. The Nikola is big and heavy wheel - it will never be zippy in the same way a smaller one is and I don't expect it to be either. It has power though and will climb stuff my V10F would overload just looking at. For my type of riding it's not an issue, I don't do a lot of aggressive starts for example, but it responds well if I need the acceleration for a quick pass by.

In short, bigger battery is always nice, but it does cost more as well. I don't care much about the voltage, we'll see what people say, but for the MSX the riding experience seems to be pretty much the same between 84V and 100V from what I've read. All in all, I'm a happy camper.

That sounds good. I’m glad to hear it.. I was talking with my wife, going over the different editions trying to decide what to do. And she made a good point.  The only real difference is maybe six mph top speed and perhaps an extra ten miles in range. That is not worth extra money or extra time to wait for it..    I’ll paint the white parts eventually and ill have my nikola by wed or Thursday this week, and I’ll be happy as can be.  I love my 16s and it only goes 22 mph so I think 31 will be more than enough for a long time 🤩😆. 

[AtlasP]

Quick side question: the original image that started this thread lists the voltage as 100.8v. Is this the same for the MSX 100v and Monster V2 100v? (i.e. are they both technically 100.8v as well?)

Edited June 3, 2019 by AtlasP

[AtlasP]

4 hours ago, Lucas Alexander Oliver said:

I’ll paint the white parts eventually...

How easy/plausible would it be to get a hold of the new black pieces from the Nikola Pro and to swap them in for the white parts of the original Nikola? If one could get them from Gotway and they would fit I would assume this would be preferable to painting?

[meepmeepmayer]

7 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Quick side question: the original image that started this thread lists the voltage as 100.8v. Is this the same for the MSX 100v and Monster V2 100v? (i.e. are they both technically 100.8v as well?)

Yes, all the same voltage. 4.2V x 24 cells in series = 100.8V.

Other voltages used are 4.2V x 20 = 84V and 4.2V x 16 = 67.2V. There's no other voltages around (ok the Ninebot On Z has 4.2V * 14 = 58.8V), so nothing to be confused about. There can't be any subtle differences or so

[Lucas Alexander Oliver]

3 hours ago, AtlasP said:

How easy/plausible would it be to get a hold of the new black pieces from the Nikola Pro and to swap them in for the white parts of the original Nikola? If one could get them from Gotway and they would fit I would assume this would be preferable to painting?

That’s a very interesting idea..  I like it.    I freaking love the carbon fiber look on the plus.  It’s the coolest designed euc to date imo..  so yeah if they make those panels replacements.  Bam. There we go.  Lol 

[Lucas Alexander Oliver]

Ahhhh. The anticipation for the next three days is going to be torture.   But nikola is finally making its way to me !!!!! 🤯🎉😎🤩🤩🤩🤩😍🥰🥰🥰🤯♥️😁😁😁😆😆😄

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

The 100 volt version (1230 wh) is pretty sweet. Only rode it less then an hour; however my first impression is that it’s pick-up is fairly quick. 😉 

Let’s see !

https://youtu.be/NhigGYIjOvI

Totally concur! There's a new wheel in town folks 

[Mrd777]

The 100 volt version ( 1230 wh) is pretty sweet. Only rode it less then an hour, however my first impression is that it’s pick-up is fairly quick.😉

Lets see!

 

[maltocs]

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

56 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

The 100 volt version ( 1230 wh) is pretty sweet. Only rode it less then an hour, however my first impression is that it’s pick-up is fairly quick.😉

Lets see!

 

Awesome and good to know. I see you own an MCM5 also. So which one do you think is faster off the line. If I'm not mistaken, you are closer to my 200lb weight, correct?

[Mrd777]

Hmmm .. I actually weigh 165lbs. The wheel certainly reminds me of the mcm5, which at the moment seems to be my favorite wheel for most of my city rides., however the Nikola doesn’t stop as quickly, probably due to the weight momentum. The trolley handle is surprisingly useful and controllable. I’ve noticed the fan goes on at idle pretty easily, and is quite loud. . 

[Smoother]

32 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

I’ve noticed the fan goes on at idle pretty easily, and is quite loud. . 

So much for the new era of Gotway silence.  2 steps forward 1 step back, It's another example of the manufacturers not listening.  People praise the new silent Gotway, Gotway makes a noisy wheel . That always seems to be the way with these wheel manufacturers.  Something gets better but something that was good now gets worse (king Song sorts out their glass axles, but gives us trolley shake and russian roulette apps and wheels locking and getting dangerously hot, Inmotion seemed ok, but now they have glass pedals and wet batteries, Gotway cooked wires, fixed that, useless axle shims, still in use, got silent-nice, got noisy again.)  why can't we seem to keep the current good stuff and have the new good stuff ADDED to it rather than REPLACE it?

Surely by now ALL the issues from the past should be gone for all manufacturers,  but Noooooo! What happened to the concept of continuous improvement?

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

So much for the new era of Gotway silence.  2 steps forward 1 step back, It's another example of the manufacturers not listening.  People praise the new silent Gotway, Gotway makes a noisy wheel . That always seems to be the way with these wheel manufacturers.  Something gets better but something that was good now gets worse (king Song sorts out their glass axles, but gives us trolley shake and russian roulette apps and wheels locking and getting dangerously hot, Inmotion seemed ok, but now they have glass pedals and wet batteries, Gotway cooked wires, fixed that, useless axle shims, still in use, got silent-nice, got noisy again.)  why can't we seem to keep the current good stuff and have the new good stuff ADDED to it rather than REPLACE it?

Surely by now ALL the issues from the past should be gone for all manufacturers,  but Noooooo! What happened to the concept of continuous improvement?

The fan isn't that loud. At least on my wheel, I only hear it when the wheel is standing still and there's not much noise around me.

[Mrd777]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

he fan isn't that loud. At least on my wheel, I only hear it when the wheel is standing still and there's not much noise around me.

Marty is correct here, i don't want to give you the wrong impression. Im comparing it to my other wheels when I'm in a packed elevator in the morning off to work. The wheel starts to breath heavily. You can't hear it when riding of coarse.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

5 hours ago, Smoother said:

So much for the new era of Gotway silence.  2 steps forward 1 step back, It's another example of the manufacturers not listening...

So true! Though I have to make that more precise:

Two steps forward, but then we get one step back, at least one step sideways into unexpected crazyland, and an outright provocative non-step in a direction that is obvious to everyone but the manufacturers

I mean, one must have brain damage to think this extra Bluetooth sound every time you switch the wheel on is ok Will anyone ever add real lights? You know, front and back, so bright others can actually see you like a car or motorbike or bicycle and you don't need extra ones in traffic? I could go on...

[maltocs]

6 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Hmmm .. I actually weigh 165lbs. The wheel certainly reminds me of the mcm5, which at the moment seems to be my favorite wheel for most of my city rides., however the Nikola doesn’t stop as quickly, probably due to the weight momentum. The trolley handle is surprisingly useful and controllable. I’ve noticed the fan goes on at idle pretty easily, and is quite loud. . 

 A buck sixty five?? man, i need to lose weight. I actually LIKE the trolly handle design. Probably because when I use a trolly handle, I raise it ALL the way up (I'm 6'1" ft tall), never part way. I have the same design with the V10F which I like a lot. I just sometimes feel it would break with a bad fall as it is on the outside plus they put the charging port UNDER the handle, which is totally lame. The nikola handle design is integrated which I assume is better PLUS it allows the use of PADS on the side if need be. Thanks for the response.

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, maltocs said:

 A buck sixty five?? man, i need to lose weight. I actually LIKE the trolly handle design. Probably because when I use a trolly handle, I raise it ALL the way up (I'm 6'1" ft tall), never part way. I have the same design with the V10F which I like a lot. I just sometimes feel it would break with a bad fall as it is on the outside plus they put the charging port UNDER the handle, which is totally lame. The nikola handle design is integrated which I assume is better PLUS it allows the use of PADS on the side if need be. Thanks for the response.

One downside to Gotway's implementation is I don't think it's as tall as Inmotion's design. It's perfect for my 5'11" height.

[Mono]

1 hour ago, maltocs said:

plus they put the charging port UNDER the handle, which is totally lame

I still cannot get my head around THAT one