Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 I went through some articles regarding proper battery charge to care about its life,and well being ... Could you please advice what Charge Doctor to buy,and how properly should I use it please? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 You don't really need one all i can say is if used daily just charge it to full if your going on a long ride ,,that's the only way the cells will balance,,, especially with the z10 because if going down hill it regenerates into one battery more than another so they will become unbalanced, only charge to full if your going to ride it straight away next one or 2 days, otherwise i wouldn't worry about it , if your using it for work you'll only need to charge it every 2 or 3 days anyway , the charge doctor is good for monitoring voltage if you see a problem and making sure everything's ok, I'm sure the guy who makes them is uncontactable atm , Another thing is charge doctor doesn't come with a Z10 charge lead so you would have to buy another lead or take yours off the charger and add a 3 pin at the other end to fit the charge doctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: I went through some articles regarding proper battery charge to care about its life,and well being ... Could you please advice what Charge Doctor to buy,and how properly should I use it please? Thanks in advance Charge Doctor's are not available by now: My "normal" recommendation for battery care would be to, if possible never leave the wheel fully charged (too long, and especially not at high temperatures). So full charge before riding and inbetween leave it at some ~40%. But you have an Z10? Which is "dangerous" to leave for some time at lower charges because of Discharging the batteries too low is the other bad thing one can do to batteries... If you are experienced enough for this and dare, the following link could help against the vampire drain: With this mod and a nice (~5A) charger (Z10 BMS takes something up to 7A?) would enable one to establish nice charge cycles. Leave the wheel more or less as it is after riding - just maybe top a bit up to ~40% after the batteries cooled down (immediate charging after batteries got stressed is not recommended). Then before riding the final charge can be established. And the Z10 shows the single cell voltages?! So one can keep track of them to leave the batteries inbetween long enough on the charger, so they get (hopefully) nicely balanced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, stephen said: You don't really need one all i can say is if used daily just charge it to full if your going on a long ride ,,that's the only way the cells will balance,,, especially with the z10 because if going down hill it regenerates into one battery more than another so they will become unbalanced, only charge to full if your going to ride it straight away next one or 2 days, otherwise i wouldn't worry about it , if your using it for work you'll only need to charge it every 2 or 3 days anyway , the charge doctor is good for monitoring voltage if you see a problem and making sure everything's ok, I'm sure the guy who makes them is uncontactable atm , Another thing is charge doctor doesn't come with a Z10 charge lead so you would have to buy another lead or take yours off the charger and add a 3 pin at the other end to fit the charge doctor Thanks for advice... So if I charge it to 100% every third day or so, for my commute needs, than I'll be okay @stephen ? Is it right ? I just should avoid daily charging to full 100%, instead I should use it down until around 40% juice left, then charge it full 100% - and so on..? I've read I shouldn't let the batteries drain below 40% - is that right? Edited May 28, 2019 by PogArt Artur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 32 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: Thanks for advice... So if I charge it to 100% every third day or so, for my commute needs, than I'll be okay @stephen ? Is it right ? I just should avoid daily charging to full 100%, instead I should use it down until around 40% juice left, then charge it full 100% - and so on..? I've read I shouldn't let the batteries drying below 40% - is that right? If you're using it for just work no speeding no rough terain let it drain to 40% , if your going on long ride charge 100% and you can drain it down to 15% to be safe as the last 10% has nothing there hardly but charge it back up same day , i charge mine to 100% if I'm going out I'd rather have full power all the time ,, but if your concerned and try to reserve battery do it every 2/3 days if just safe cummute to work👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: I've read I shouldn't let the batteries drying below 40% - is that right? You can let it go right down its just you've limited power after that , depends what your wanting to do with the last 40% , running the battery right down is ok as long as you know it's limits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 Thanks for full explanation... I went through the post regarding the electric modification, but I wouldn't dare to do it on my own unfortunately. So following your advice, I should be okay to charge it fully 100% every second day or so, if I'm going to ride it next day... As @stephen has advised earlier... I should not let the battery drain below 40% to avoid cells damage as well. Is there a reason I could know - WHY 40% ? Could it go down below 30% or 20% as well? I'm just curious, because I'd like to look after the well being of my Z10, so I wish I could learn how to look after the battery's health properly... CHEERS @Chriull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, stephen said: If you're using it for just work no speeding no rough terain let it drain to 40% , if your going on long ride charge 100% and you can drain it down to 15% to be safe as the last 10% has nothing there hardly but charge it back up same day , i charge mine to 100% if I'm going out I'd rather have full power all the time ,, but if your concerned and try to reserve battery do it every 2/3 days if just safe cummute to work👍 AWESOME - that's will be easy to remember the rule... So regarding to juice leftover of 40% - it isn't crucial/principal, but just advisable to keep it at bottom 40% level to be safe, is it right? THANK YOU Edited May 28, 2019 by PogArt Artur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: Thanks for full explanation... I went through the post regarding the electric modification, but I wouldn't dare to do it on my own unfortunately. So following your advice, I should be okay to charge it fully 100% every second day or so, if I'm going to ride it next day... Its just all about minimizing the time, the battery is at 100%. 2 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: As @stephen has advised earlier... I should not let the battery drain below 40% to avoid cells damage as well. Is there a reason I could know - WHY 40% ? 40% is the recomended storage chatge for lowest "ading/deteoriation" effects for li ion cells. In case of the Z10 with its high off dischathe rate its to prevent getting the pack shutting off completely. 2 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: Could it go down below 30% or 20% as well? Yes. Details to be found at: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Just again be carefull with the self discharge of the Z10! ... And the charge % shown in the app are not the real state of charge of the li ion cells! So it's better to go with the voltages mentioned at batteryuniversity com. 2 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: I'm just curious, because I'd like to look after the well being of my Z10, so I wish I could learn how to look after the battery's health properly... CHEERS @Chriull You're welcome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: So following your advice, I should be okay to charge it fully 100% every second day or so, if I'm going to ride it next day... No, I wouldn't do that. Storing the batteries at 100% is not good for them, but charging them to 100% right before any ride would be ok because you are going to ride off the top 10% within a few minutes of riding, It's storing at 100% that causes the damage not charging to 100% unless that leads to storage and not a ride. There's also no need to balance your batteries every other day; that's just overkill. Once every two weeks should be plenty. Now, if you charge to 100% in order to get the range you need, go ahead, but don't do it the night before; do it right before the next ride. When I had a small battery I would charge to 80-90% after a ride, them add the last 10% right before the next ride, if i remembered, or had time, otherwise I'd just ride with the 80-90% and be done with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 Thank you again, I'm at work and trying to catch up those advices... I think I'll write down at home the crucial points to remember and follow, and I plan to print some sheets as well - to look into them at any time,if I forget your lessons after while... Cheers !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunner Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 I have a little book where i write down my charge cycles, very german. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Smoother said: No, I wouldn't do that. Storing the batteries at 100% is not good for them, but charging them to 100% right before any ride would be ok because you are going to ride off the top 10% within a few minutes of riding, It's storing at 100% that causes the damage not charging to 100% unless that leads to storage and not a ride. There's also no need to balance your batteries every other day; that's just overkill. Once every two weeks should be plenty. Now, if you charge to 100% in order to get the range you need, go ahead, but don't do it the night before; do it right before the next ride. When I had a small battery I would charge to 80-90% after a ride, them add the last 10% right before the next ride, if i remembered, or had time, otherwise I'd just ride with the 80-90% and be done with it. AWESOME !!! It's much more clearer now, thank you @Smoother It wasn't so obvious to me before, and actually I wouldn't be able to fulfill those advices above, because on my Dalmatian I were struggling for juice, and it had to be charged full the night before, because if not I would't will manage to come home,due the lack of juice... And if I were waking up 4am, or such, there's no way to wake up an hour earlier, just to charge the battery right before I ride... But now, having much more capacity, I can look after the battery life the proper way Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 1 hour ago, RoadRunner said: I have a little book where i write down my charge cycles, very german. Amazing idea, to keep diary ! I may do Thanks a lot !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: But now, having much more capacity, I can look after the battery life the proper way Wow, when did you get a Z10? It seems like only last week you were practicing around your wheelie bins on the dalmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Smoother said: Wow, when did you get a Z10? No, I have not Z10 just yet @Smoother , I'm just getting prepared, trying to learn how to use it, what to be aware off, proper charging battery... All that sort of things, before I receive packet I'll be ready to place the order probably THIS FRIDAY !!! So far at "Fat Llama" online shop was the best deal including 1 year warranty, if I shall believe it When last time I was checking it was for £1290, but two days ago it went up to £1310. The difference isn't devastating, so I'm just waiting till Friday to pay - whatever the price is - lol, hahahaaa ..."It seems like only last week you were practicing around your wheelie bins on the dalmatian." That's funny isn't it? The (Dalmatian) E+ started limiting my needs... It's good for commuting for beginners, but after fewer weeks I found I were willing go faster, due to being more confident riding, and at that point E+ was tilting me back, slowered me down just where I could go faster... Lol... At that point I've started looking around for upgrade Thanks for keen words @Smoother Edited May 28, 2019 by PogArt Artur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 2 hours ago, RoadRunner said: I have a little book where i write down my charge cycles, very german. Just a little tipp - if you do this record the voltages at begin of charge and after the charge, too. That's much more "meaningfull" than the reported charge %. With the state before the charge you'd have the chance to see sometimes how many full charge cycles you had. For Kingsong (67,2V) everything above 66,8V is 100% and everything below 50V is 0%. By this you have the additional benefit of getting some kind of "battery state" monitor - the max voltage after a full charge drops over time as cells age... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunner Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 59 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said: When last time I was checking it was for £1290, but two days ago it went up to £1310. I would really consider this offer, even if you want to get the Z10 so badly. Great price, more range, more speed more everything. 180km (kingsong app km) Comes with unused original pedals (not those pictured), standard charger. Original box. Lots of features like quad speakers, light sensor, dual charge inputs etc. Selling because have another wheel coming. £1200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) In the earlier days of Lipos, an engineer at Kokham stated a SIMPLE way to remember how to store those batteries (applies to lithium-ion also): Treat them as a baby: You don't want them to go to sleep with a full stomach as they will burp, and you don't want them to have an empty stomach either... Edited May 28, 2019 by pico c 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 5 hours ago, RoadRunner said: Selling because have another wheel coming. £1200 I saw your offer before, lol And it's true ! ... - I was considering that EUC some time ago as well! Unfortunately love is love, you can't beat it up It's like with "your" dog's breed , the Rottie I love all the working, protecting dogs, but the Rottweiler is the only one! This is how I feel for Z10 @RoadRunner All those EUCs are awesome, but I feel for Z10 Thank you anyway You will sell yours easily, because it is GREAT wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 5 hours ago, pico said: In the earlier days of Lipos, an engineer at Kokham stated an SIMPLE way to remember how to store those batteries (applies to lithium-ion also): Treat them as a baby: You don't want them to go to sleep with a full stomach as they will burp, and you don't want them to have an empty stomach either... What a simply but thoughtful advice! Lol Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunner Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 5 hours ago, PogArt Artur said: You will sell yours easily Are you crazy, i would never sell my XL. They guy that sells it is from London, iam from Germany. So iam not trying to sell you the wheel, i just want to tell you how great this wheel is. Especially for that price. I mean it costs less money than you want to pay for the Z10, its got much more range, rides like a champ on every terrain, it is in the UK maybe you can even test ride it. What more do you want. i just want you to think about it. So just don’t forget my words because in a few months, when you ride like a pro you will want that extra range that you could get with the XL. Was the same with me, when i got my KS16, i thought ahhh 40-50km range is plenty for me. After a few months it wasn’t enough anymore. @stephen say something 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PogArt Artur Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 4 hours ago, RoadRunner said: Are you crazy, i would never sell my XL. They guy that sells it is from London, iam from Germany. So iam not trying to sell you the wheel, i just want to tell you how great this wheel is. Especially for that price. I mean it costs less money than you want to pay for the Z10, its got much more range, rides like a champ on every terrain, it is in the UK maybe you can even test ride it. What more do you want. i just want you to think about it. So just don’t forget my words because in a few months, when you ride like a pro you will want that extra range that you could get with the XL. Was the same with me, when i got my KS16, i thought ahhh 40-50km range is plenty for me. After a few months it wasn’t enough anymore. @stephen say something Sh*t on me ! I'm sorry!, you right! ... Sometimes I'm just replying, and not focusing on the details Now, after reading your reply it's obvious I remember this post, and it's London's offer... I were replying to you, and totally forgotten the above Forgive pls Regarding your keen advice - I think I can not appreciate your efforts at the moment @RoadRunner ... I can compare it to falling in love to the bad girl? Everybody around will would tell you it's bad idea, think about it, it's not too late ... You won't listen, would you? This is what I am at the moment I just fell in love to Z10 , you know, these days you can get married even *mannequin :), so why not Z10? Hahhaaaa (*the other day I've been watching some tv news, where Japanese man fell in love to the mannequin and got married it...?!) The trouble with me is, I could have a ride, I could touch it, try it, feel it... It's not "empty feeling" that I like the look and YouTube videos only, if you know I mean? I could test it... So even though out there are other awesome wheels @RoadRunner, I'm sold to Z10. It's simply ticked all boxes for my needs. The range - I do agree, I'd wish it had 18XL range, but I have really not time for riding long miles. All I need is daily commute my friend, 8miles per day. Some days I need go to local shop (on the way back home), this is where E+ failed... I was always worry go local shopping, because once I ended up on E+ struggling to come back, due to lack of juice, this is where I started thinking of upgrade... Z10 will cover my needs regarding the range flawlessly - do you know I mean I do hobby photography occasionally ... If I charge it fully, I can go even other districts around my place... I'm scared off riding on roads not to provoke the cops, that passing me by frequently, everywhere I go... So mainly I keep rolling on pavements - no fast wheel needed. You might be right, you've been there, you know things better than I, because you've experienced that already... It's going to be my second wheel, I have no experience, and I'm basing on my best guess and feelings We will be in touch, let's get back to this subject after some time please? I might be able to see the things different, and I will have more experience too Best regards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, RoadRunner said: i just want you to think about it. So just don’t forget my words because in a few months, when you ride like a pro you will want that extra range that you could get with the XL. Was the same with me, when i got my KS16, i thought ahhh 40-50km range is plenty for me. After a few months it wasn’t enough anymore. @stephen say something I have pointed out to R2 that he will probably want more range when he rides a more comfortable wheel ,i did also tell him that when he bought the E+😁 He tried my msx which i think is super comfy , he then tried my Z10 he loved it his little polish face lit up😁😁 he was in love, he was lost for words, then when he did speak he said "that's the wheel for me" I can't blame him the Z10 is a lovely wheel ,, probably the heaviest but feels the lightest ""and Wow does it feel nice😊" As for the ksxl for sale i was looking to buy that, but was wanting the ks16x ,,im still thinking if i could buy both 😬 i think r2 likes new otherwise the 18xl would of been great, my ks16s cost me £1200 and outgrown that after a month 😁 I don't think there's no changing his mind you've got more chance of me buying it 😄🤔 What miles do you get from your xl? Edited May 29, 2019 by stephen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.