pollytronman Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) I might prepare the charger this weekend. Would the thin wires of the original charger by segway work with higher amps than original? I bought an aftermarket cable in order to not cut the original one but I found out that the aftermarket is even slighty thinner than original (not by much but thinner) Probably will interchange and use original cable for fast charger (6A) and aftermarket one for original charger (2A). What do you think @Rotciv Edited September 7, 2019 by pollytronman spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 hour ago, pollytronman said: I might prepare the charger this weekend. Would the thin wires of the original charger by segway work with higher amps than original? I bought an aftermarket cable in order to not cut the original one but I found out that the aftermarket is even slighty thinner than original (not by much but thinner) Probably will interchange and use original cable for fast charger (6A) and aftermarket one for original charger (2A). What do you think @Rotciv The Z10 BMS has an internal charge current limit. 8.5A afair do not work - the limit was somewhere around 6-7A?! Don't know who posted this - maybe @palachzzz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotciv Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 8 hours ago, pollytronman said: I might prepare the charger this weekend. Would the thin wires of the original charger by segway work with higher amps than original? I bought an aftermarket cable in order to not cut the original one but I found out that the aftermarket is even slighty thinner than original (not by much but thinner) Probably will interchange and use original cable for fast charger (6A) and aftermarket one for original charger (2A). What do you think @Rotciv Hard to tell from the picture but it looks like the conductors are about the same. It should work without issues, smaller conductors has higher resistance and at higher current will start to heat up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallexis Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 8/24/2019 at 9:12 PM, Evgeniy Filippov said: Cool. )) Can you give more details on how this is done? I don't take any picture for that. It's just 2 wires linked to XT60 connectors (for both batteries) inside the shell. And to drill a hole at the top for the external plug (I have choose a GX12-4p in my case, because of a lake of space to put a bigger one). Due to Pin diameter, I have linked 2 pin to + and 2 min to -. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 I know its a pain but it would be really good to see a pic if you ever get round to it. I am interested to see where you put the external plug and I will see if I can find a fully waterproof one. Theres not much room around the stock battery connectors, did you just splice into them rather than add additional connectors etc? I fully understand the risks with bypassing the bms, but this could be a really nice solution to add a bit of power whilst out and about. Even just an hour at 5a would give around 25% back if my quick calcs are right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollytronman Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) On 8/14/2019 at 4:50 AM, Rotciv said: 7.5A is borderline dangerous, it will need constant monitoring. When charging at that current, I would suggest removing the battery pack and charge it outside in case you get a thermal runaway and the battery pack starts a fire. You don’t want to lose your Z10 to a fire. I’ve been charging at 6A regularly without any issues. At 6A, there is minimal heating on the internal wires. Find a charger that allows you to trim the output voltage. The BMS will cutoff charging when the battery pack goes above 58.7v, probably causing some cells to have less charge than others. My daily charger is the 5A version of this one, adjusted to output 6A and the voltage output trimmed to 58.67v. Order the charger with GX16-3 connector and get the male connector from ElecBee. The display meter I used above is DROK 200139US from Amazon. The meter is useful to monitor the charging voltage and current. It will also show you power and total Wh. Following your instructions I managed to get my Wate 6A charger working fine. Trimmed voltage at about 58.65V (the potentiometer is very sensitive). So far charge speeds are about 3x faster than with original charger. I used a Peacefair digital multimeter instead of the DROK 200139US (couldnt find the drok in Amazon Spain) but I suppose it will do ok for monitoring. The most "dificult" part was soldering the GX16-3 connectors because I am not good at soldering but in the end I did it ok. Trimming to exact 58.67V was a pain in the ass, I ended up setting it at 58.65V. I will attach some pictures later in case anybody find them useful. Thanks for your help, this charger will be very useful with long extended rides ;-) Edited September 8, 2019 by pollytronman spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, pollytronman said: I can upload some pictures too if somebody needs them. Any you have would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotciv Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, pollytronman said: Following your instructions I managed to get my Wate 6A charger working fine. Trimmed voltage at about 58.65V (the potentiometer is very sensitive). So far charge speeds are about 3x faster than with original charger. I used a Peacefair digital multimeter instead of the DROK 200139US (couldnt find the drok in Amazon Spain) but I suppose it will do ok for monitoring. The most "dificult" part was soldering the GX16-3 connectors because I am not good at soldering but in the end I did it ok. Trimming to exact 58.67V was a pain in the ass, I ended up setting it at 58.65V. I will attach some pictures later in case anybody find them useful. Thanks for your help, this charger will be very useful with long extended rides ;-) Glad you’ve completed your fast charger, it really helps on those extended ride 👍👍 Soldering the wires to the connector is challenging but with patience, it can be done. 0.02V difference is within the margin of error when manufacturing stock chargers, nothing to worry about. My other gripe is when I ride the Z10 hard and fast for long period and the battery pack gets hot and the BMS will not allow it to charge. I have to wait until battery pack temperature falls below 70C. Not something I do all the time, but had a few occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 9/7/2019 at 1:08 PM, Chriull said: The Z10 BMS has an internal charge current limit. 8.5A afair do not work - the limit was somewhere around 6-7A?! Don't know who posted this - maybe @palachzzz? 9A limit in BMS. But be carefull with 9A charging. Because the battery get hot with 9A, when the temperature of one of batteries will exceed 40 degrees - BMS will block charging. In this case, if one battery will block, but another one will continue the charging with 9A (not 4.5A per battery but 9a into one) it may cause burnout of the BMS like it was in my case I use to charge 6a (350W) every day (and would say that it is safe, because it works during 6.5k+ km, and about 9 month). During this time I charged about 10 times with 9A and it was OK. But now I would say - that 9A not so safe) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollytronman Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 9 hours ago, palachzzz said: 9A limit in BMS. But be carefull with 9A charging. Because the battery get hot with 9A, when the temperature of one of batteries will exceed 40 degrees - BMS will block charging. In this case, if one battery will block, but another one will continue the charging with 9A (not 4.5A per battery but 9a into one) it may cause burnout of the BMS like it was in my case I use to charge 6a (350W) every day (and would say that it is safe, because it works during 6.5k+ km, and about 9 month). During this time I charged about 10 times with 9A and it was OK. But now I would say - that 9A not so safe) Omg... that's a roasted bms... Will you repair it ? It's better to stick to 6A charges I suppose :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollytronman Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 @Rotciv The charger is working very good I attach some pictures od the charging process from 10% battery at 30min, 1h and 2h charge times. Max battery temps were 36º iirc may I ask you a question guys? Why do you think the Z bms cuts off at 58,67V instead of 58,8V (4,2V x 14 cells) At 58,67V the cells are not at 100% nominal capacity, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, pollytronman said: may I ask you a question guys? Why do you think the Z bms cuts off at 58,67V instead of 58,8V (4,2V x 14 cells) At 58,67V the cells are not at 100% nominal capacity, isn't it? What accuracy has your voltage meter? (58,8-58,67)/58,8 ~ 0,2%. To get such a measurement accuracy one normally has to invest some money. Beside the percentage one has some +/- last digits .. So with "normal" multimeters/EUC build in measurement such deviations are well within range. Ps.: Which does not mean that beeing on the "wrong" side of the measurement deviations can show such "nice" values but still everything is quite off...:( Edited September 9, 2019 by Chriull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 42 minutes ago, pollytronman said: Why do you think the Z bms cuts off at 58,67V instead of 58,8V I don't know why, but I can confirm this threashold. Moreover, I didn't see more then 58.4v on batteries when charge is finished, most probably the reason - diode in BMS (basicaly, FET in reverse-diode mode). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollytronman Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) On 9/9/2019 at 10:29 PM, Chriull said: What accuracy has your voltage meter? (58,8-58,67)/58,8 ~ 0,2%. To get such a measurement accuracy one normally has to invest some money. Beside the percentage one has some +/- last digits .. Probably an order of magnitude higher. It's a cheap one. It was just curiosity. I upload a picture of how I managed cable conection. This way you can just put out the polimeter once you have tested all charging values or keep it as you like. I was testing 7A charging, transistors get hooot at 7.5A. I'll keep 7A as default since I live in a rather mild/cold region. My batteries never reached more than 36-37ºC. Edited September 11, 2019 by pollytronman add text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Just to confirm, is the stock charging port/plug able to cope with 6A? I think I want to go with a 6A Wate charger. Also I need to find a stock charging plug as I dont want to cut the one off my stock charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollytronman Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Planemo said: Just to confirm, is the stock charging port/plug able to cope with 6A? I think I want to go with a 6A Wate charger. Also I need to find a stock charging plug as I dont want to cut the one off my stock charger. I think so. The cable gets mildly warm and connector is just cold. I bought the Z10 cable plus connector here (It's a bit on the expensive side though): https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32983145164.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.9a0d63c0uCEISj Edited September 13, 2019 by pollytronman rephrasing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 OK, and cheers for the link. It is a bit pricey I must admit. I am actually thinking of cutting off the stock plug, fitting a Deans then I can use the stock or fast chargers just by switching over the plug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) Got my Wate 6A charger today. Cut the plug off the stock charger, fitted Deans connectors to both so I can swop between chargers easily, adjusted the Wate voltage to 58.6 (it was 58.8) and job done Havent used it in anger yet but having this will give me a new lease of life for longer rides. Big thanks to @Rotciv for this one Edit: Pic removed - having a cull of my uploads to retrieve space. Edited March 4, 2022 by Planemo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Hi! I think I'll buy this one 5A 58.8V It's already setted to 5A (2,5 times faster than original, and eventually trimmable to 7,5A as @Rotciv showed us), so don't need other stuff like monitor and wiring. It's lighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Konrad said: It's already setted to 5A (2,5 times faster than original, and eventually trimmable to 7,5A Do this experiment sliwly and closely watchb the charger. Although this is "just" 50% increase of current this means more tgan double the power dissipation (2.25 times) for the switch (mosfet). ...and aliexpress stuff is not really known to be overengeneered... ...or order 2-3 of these and try if one makes it or not 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 11 hours ago, Chriull said: Do this experiment sliwly and closely watchb the charger. Although this is "just" 50% increase of current this means more tgan double the power dissipation (2.25 times) for the switch (mosfet). ...and aliexpress stuff is not really known to be overengeneered... ...or order 2-3 of these and try if one makes it or not Ahaha LOL I don't think I'll increase it to 7,5A 5A it's quite good: in 1 hour I can get aprox 3o% of charge; in 2 hours (lunch ) 6o%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 @Rotciv do you know how to make the fan always running? My Wate 5A turns on and off the fan every second. One second on. One second off. It's annoying and most of all is not good for the fan life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigiValliConservigi Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Hello guys, About the toasted BMS, have you had any chance to replace it? If yes, how did you find the BMS replacement? Can you help me find one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noseDiveDave Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Hi Anyone live near San Diego that can help me charge up my Z10? I ordered a charger from Aliexpress but won't be here for another 3 weeks... Thx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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