Gotway Monster 2019

[Ben Kim]

9 hours ago, erk1024 said:

No. Jason said that the V3's had arrived but that mine had to be re-shelled by a tech. I'm assuming that means that one of the V3's had a defect in the shell and so they are going to replace it. They won't even ship it out until next week.  

@Ben Kim Did you get yours?

nope but i received tracking a few days ago.

[Hsiang]

13 hours ago, erk1024 said:

No. Jason said that the V3's had arrived but that mine had to be re-shelled by a tech. I'm assuming that means that one of the V3's had a defect in the shell and so they are going to replace it. They won't even ship it out until next week.  

@Ben Kim Did you get yours?

I am in the same shipping black hole as @Ben Kim and nope, zip movement on our delivery status.

[erk1024]

1 minute ago, Hsiang said:

I am in the same shipping black hole as @Ben Kim and nope, zip movement on our delivery status.

Sorry to hear it. Hopefully it will get resolved soon. I'll let you know if my status changes. 

Alien Rides seemed kind of lukewarm on the Monster V3. But I definitely have my reasons for wanting that model which I'll describe at some point. 

Jason did send me a picture of it. Black pedals!

 

[erk1024]

p.s.

I really don't mind them taking it apart and putting another shell on it. That probably means they'll take a good look at it and give it a quick test before sending it my way. That could prevent some issues up-front. The latest releases from Gotway and Kingsong have had teething issues (to put it mildly). 

In the meantime, I'm having a lot of fun on my 18XL which has worked perfectly from day one. 

[Hsiang]

4 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Sorry to hear it. Hopefully it will get resolved soon. I'll let you know if my status changes. 

Alien Rides seemed kind of lukewarm on the Monster V3. But I definitely have my reasons for wanting that model which I'll describe at some point. 

Jason did send me a picture of it. Black pedals!

 

For the most part I think the v3 basically rides just like the v2 so no changes and that why people are too excited about it?

Btw I had a chance to ride a monster around the block today, and it was certainly an interesting experience. The weight and size of this wheel make it feel like you"re driving an old school Cadillac. Super stable and wanting to just go in a straight line, I'll be very curious to know how it feels  pressed in a high speed corner .

[fbhb]

12 hours ago, Hsiang said:

I am in the same shipping black hole as @Ben Kim and nope, zip movement on our delivery status.

@Hsiang So are you awaiting a Monster V3 too???  If so, did you go for the 100v 2460wh like @Ben Kim ???

[Daniel Clopton]

I'm really curious about the 100V 2460Wh version. This seems like the ideal specs for the Monster. Someone please post a review when that comes in. Jason said he contacted Gotway about making some of this version for him to sell, but Gotway is insisting that they cannot fit that battery arrangement in the Monster V3. Obviously someone is wrong here. 

[fbhb]

7 minutes ago, Daniel Clopton said:

I'm really curious about the 100V 2460Wh version. This seems like the ideal specs for the Monster. Someone please post a review when that comes in.

@Ben Kim will be our best bet for an early report on this battery configuration.  I'm also really looking forward to hearing feedback from him when it arrives, hopefully sometime soon!!!

Edited August 9, 2019 by fbhb

[Daniel Clopton]

52 minutes ago, fbhb said:

@Ben Kim will be our best bet for an early report on this battery configuration.  I'm also really looking forward to hearing feedback from him when it arrives, hopefully sometime soon!!!

My main concern is buying from Aliexpress and lack of customer support. 

[Arbolest]

1 hour ago, Daniel Clopton said:

I'm really curious about the 100V 2460Wh version. This seems like the ideal specs for the Monster. Someone please post a review when that comes in. Jason said he contacted Gotway about making some of this version for him to sell, but Gotway is insisting that they cannot fit that battery arrangement in the Monster V3. Obviously someone is wrong here. 

Honestly, if the 126v battery packs that @Marty Backe says Gotway may be developing for the Nikola turn out to be a real thing, then I think that would really be the ideal specs for the Monster. The battery packs would already be standard sized and would fit with no issues, it would be 2400wh so total capacity wouldn't be an issue, and the top speed would be absolutely outstanding!

And even better, if it turns out that they can use the same 2000W motor as well, then all someone with a V2 or V3 Monster would need to do in order to upgrade is swap out the control board and batteries! I can't tell you how excited I am about that possibility!

Edited August 9, 2019 by Arbolest

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, Daniel Clopton said:

I'm really curious about the 100V 2460Wh version. This seems like the ideal specs for the Monster. Someone please post a review when that comes in. Jason said he contacted Gotway about making some of this version for him to sell, but Gotway is insisting that they cannot fit that battery arrangement in the Monster V3. Obviously someone is wrong here. 

Looks like you've come around to the monster eh?

[erk1024]

6 hours ago, Arbolest said:

I'm really curious about the 100V 2460Wh version.

The Monster shell has 4 long compartments that are the shape of a long battery pack. But in the 1845wh version, one of those compartments is used for the control board and the bluetooth speaker module. In order to get a 4th battery pack in there, they must be moving the control board somewhere else? But keep in mind it IS a modification, just just adding another battery pack.

[Hsiang]

45 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

The Monster shell has 4 long compartments that are the shape of a long battery pack. But in the 1845wh version, one of those compartments is used for the control board and the bluetooth speaker module. In order to get a 4th battery pack in there, they must be moving the control board somewhere else? But keep in mind it IS a modification, just just adding another battery pack.

Its a mystery, I had asked GF this question and they had claimed that for their mod they did not move the control board but "Found a better way" we'll see what that means when we do receive the wheel. I hope they did not carve away at the shell to get the extra pack to fit..

[erk1024]

@Hsiang So I'm curious why you are getting a Monster instead of one of the other options?

[Andy Huang]

18650：

（3.7V×24S×3.45mA）X 2P = 612.72WH，約615WH

615 WHX 3 = 1845WH

更換

21700：

（3.7VX 24S X 4.95mA）X2P = 879.12WH about 880W

880WH X 3 = 2640W

這是不改變其他部分的最佳解決方案嗎？

你怎麼看 ？

Edited August 9, 2019 by Andy Huang

[erk1024]

1 hour ago, Andy Huang said:

21700：

（3.7VX 24S X 4.95mA）X2P = 879.12WH about 880W

What Andy is saying is: would the best way to get 2640wh be to switch from 18650 cells to 21700 cells with more capacity?

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by erk1024

[fbhb]

2 hours ago, erk1024 said:

What Andy is saying is: would the best way to get 2640wh be to switch from 18650 cells to 21700 cells with more capacity?

GF's Ali Express details states the following configuration as to how they achieved 2460wh: "2460WH is the upgrade version of the seller, the original 1845WH is modified. The battery used is NCR18650GA, adding 615WH battery" so, it looks like they are still using 18650!!!

Edited August 9, 2019 by fbhb

[Ben Kim]

5 hours ago, Hsiang said:

Its a mystery, I had asked GF this question and they had claimed that for their mod they did not move the control board but "Found a better way" we'll see what that means when we do receive the wheel. I hope they did not carve away at the shell to get the extra pack to fit..

they split that 4th pack into 3 parts 1 set of 24 cells, and 2 sets of 12 cells each, with the bms/power lines being run outside the packs. 

 

Thats how their custom MSX 100V 1845 looked. 

[meepmeepmayer]

7 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

they split that 4th pack into 3 parts 1 set of 24 cells, and 2 sets of 12 cells each, with the bms/power lines being run outside the packs.

Do you know where the extra BMS is? Isn't it quite big? I wonder where they put it.

[Andy Huang]

4 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Andy所說的是：獲得2640wh的最佳方法是將18650單元從具有更大容量的18600單元切換到21700單元？

 

Yes, that is my original intention.  Because a friend got a 84V 2200WH customized MSX a few weeks ago,is to use the 21700 size battery

[Ben Kim]

16 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do you know where the extra BMS is? Isn't it quite big? I wonder where they put it.

It’s going to be configured something similar to this. i do hope they put these extra cells on the board/speaker side though for balancing  

Edited August 10, 2019 by Ben Kim

[erk1024]

Going from the 18XL to the Monster V3

 

The first EUC I bought was a Kingsong 18XL. It's a good all around wheel. While it's not the best at any one thing, it's fairly good at everything: speed, maneuverability, comfort, acceleration, range, torque, portability. With an 18.5 inch wheel diameter, this is by no means small. However its tire is 2.5 inches wide while the MSX and all the new wheels coming from both Kingsong and Gotway use 3 inches wide tires. 

 

I don't really NEED another wheel, but why have just one?

 

Florida has bike (mixed-use) trails that are safer than being in the bike lane next to the cars, and more fun and scenic in any case. But the problem is that the asphalt surface is not great. Cracks, bumps, divots and snaking tree roots under the surface make it a bumpy ride. With my 265 pound weight, I have to run the 18XL's tire pressure at 50psi, which means there is not much give in the tire. I was riding on bike paths near the beach at twenty mph, all the bumps and jolts meant my feet were bouncing and shifting around on the pedals. I had to slow down and scoot them back into position to continue.

 

My motivation for trying a Gotway 100V Monster V3 is to see if the bigger and wider tire will do a better job of handling this kind of surface. I should be able to run it at a lower pressure for a more compliant ride. The tradeoff is that generally, larger wheels have less torque, acceleration and maneuverability. I'm actually not too worried about the last one, in videos, the riders make sharp turns and weave around pedestrians with no problem.

 

Torque is another issue to think about. For a motor with a given amount of power, the increase of radius reduces the effective torque in a linear fashion. So going from the MSX's 19.5" tire to the Monster's 23" tire should reduce the torque by about 15% (assuming the same motor and similar control board). A 15% drop doesn't doesn't sound like a deal breaker. But then the MSX isn't supposed to have amazing torque either (not like the MCM5, for example). The new "16" inch wheels will no doubt be the choice of off-road hill climbers, or just hill climbers in general.

 

My biggest worry is that if the Monster acceleration is too weak, it won't be fun to ride. I'm assuming that the acceleration will be about 15% less as well (torque gets translated into acceleration). I'm getting a little over my head here, but electric motors can maintain about the same amount of torque as RPM increases, they just need more and more current until you get to the max power output of the system. The larger wheel of the Monster is a little harder to spin up (moment of inertia). But that seems minor compared to the force needed to accelerate the much heavier rider. The MSX has great acceleration--a bit faster than the 18XL--so 15%-ish less acceleration also doesn't seem like the end of the world. @Marty Backe said "It's not going to accelerate like your 18XL, but it's not exactly a snail. If you're not into super hard starts, the Monster will feel just fine to you."

 

With the 18XL it's not that it doesn't have enough speed or acceleration, it's that the speed is often not usable because I get pounded by the poor quality of the pavement. So... the Monster seems like a good solution?

 

Hopefully I'll get the answer to this question next week when the Monster arrives, and I can post a review.

Edited August 10, 2019 by erk1024
clarification

[Hsiang]

On 8/9/2019 at 12:15 PM, erk1024 said:

@Hsiang So I'm curious why you are getting a Monster instead of one of the other options?

Good question; I made a whole video to explain it!! =D Saw this after I posted it so let me not double post..

[Hsiang]

8 hours ago, erk1024 said:

 

My biggest worry is that if the Monster acceleration is too weak, it won't be fun to ride. I'm assuming that the acceleration will be about 15% less as well (torque gets translated into acceleration). I'm getting a little over my head here, but electric motors can maintain about the same amount of torque as RPM increases, they just need more and more current until you get to the max power output of the system. The larger wheel of the Monster is a little harder to spin up (moment of inertia). But that seems minor compared to the force needed to accelerate the much heavier rider. The MSX has great acceleration--a bit faster than the 18XL--so 15%-ish less acceleration also doesn't seem like the end of the world. @Marty Backe said "It's not going to accelerate like your 18XL, but it's not exactly a snail. If you're not into super hard starts, the Monster will feel just fine to you."

 

With the 18XL it's not that it doesn't have enough speed or acceleration, it's that the speed is often not usable because I get pounded by the poor quality of the pavement. So... the Monster seems like a good solution?

 

Hopefully I'll get the answer to this question next week when the Monster arrives, and I can post a review.

My biggest worry actually isn’t acceleration but braking. I imagine that 15% reduction in torque also translate directly to a 15% weaker braking power, not to mention the additional 20lbs of weight it needs to stop. 

Effective braking translate to higher speed since for me I never ride fast unless I have the clearance to bring myself to a stop, and in a busy city where there isn’t a lot of room, its more on your vehicle then anything else..

[Ben Kim]

40 minutes ago, Hsiang said:

My biggest worry actually isn’t acceleration but braking. I imagine that 15% reduction in torque also translate directly to a 15% weaker braking power, not to mention the additional 20lbs of weight it needs to stop. 

Effective braking translate to higher speed since for me I never ride fast unless I have the clearance to bring myself to a stop, and in a busy city where there isn’t a lot of room, its more on your vehicle then anything else..

@houseofjob seems to handle riding a monster around the city just fine. On the emptier roads of NJ and the outer boroughs it shouldn’t be an issue.