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Gotway Monster 2019

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2 hours ago, fbhb said:

This is a quote from EcoDrift's comments after visiting the GotWay factory : "Even on the new Gotway Monster and Nikola monowheels there will be new big pedals, but without rubber cover, but with classic sandpaper. Rubber coating caused a lot of complaints." Both of these points should be music to most people's ears!

The pedals on the Nikola are very slippery IMO. Just a little dirt on them or the bottom of your shoe and slip slide and away. I’ve been meaning to ask you guys here about that and if there are any ideas as to fixing it. 

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7 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

The pedals on the Nikola are very slippery IMO. Just a little dirt on them or the bottom of your shoe and slip slide and away. I’ve been meaning to ask you guys here about that and if there are any ideas as to fixing it. 

yea just peel it off and put some grip tape on.. going to be one of the first things i do.. i know all too well with a ninebot in the rain not to trust rubber haha... if you can try not to tear it when you peel it off though that way you can just trace the shape on to the back of the grip tape sticker and cut it out

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18 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Lift button

Does that lift button come with a CrossFit subscription as to be able to actually lift it for some time? :popcorn:

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3 hours ago, Sketch said:

You going with the 84v or the 100v?  Been considering a Monster since it came out. Always put it off to purchase another wheel.  Wondering if this is the time to pull the trigger. 

I really like super long ride, so will go with 84v 2400wh, I riding speed: 40-45 km/h, hoping can ride 60+ miles with my 220lbs riding weight.  My 84v 1600wh ACM2 got me 40 miles.

PQ 

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22 minutes ago, Peter Q said:

I really like super long ride, so will go with 84v 2400wh, I riding speed: 40-45 km/h, hoping can ride 60+ miles with my 220lbs riding weight.  My 84v 1600wh ACM2 got me 40 miles.

PQ 

I think for sure you can get that range at those speeds at your weight, with the Monster. That's where it's truly king.

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I have a strong gut feeling that i will not see my Monster from Green Fashion til September. They’ve been delaying shipment on the Nikola Plus by a month at minimum and there’s nothing indicating the Monster would be any different. 

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Fun update from Green Fashion:

The package has already arrived in US customs and it is "in the final stage of customs clearance".  I find it odd because I purchased numerous scooters from China and you received the Fedex tracking before it even arrives in the USA, and I have yet to receive any tracking.  I don't know if he's BSing me (a lot of Chinese sellers do) or if I can expect a Monster on my doorstep in a few weeks, but it keeps a guy's hopes up.  :)

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55 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

Fun update from Green Fashion:

The package has already arrived in US customs and it is "in the final stage of customs clearance".  I find it odd because I purchased numerous scooters from China and you received the Fedex tracking before it even arrives in the USA, and I have yet to receive any tracking.  I don't know if he's BSing me (a lot of Chinese sellers do) or if I can expect a Monster on my doorstep in a few weeks, but it keeps a guy's hopes up.  :)

I'm hearing basically the same from them regarding my Nikola Plus. When I ordered last from them (MTen3), it was similar: Long delay, followed by a non-functional tracking number, and then finally a real FedEx tracking number and an arrival a few days later.

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28 minutes ago, who_the said:

I'm hearing basically the same from them regarding my Nikola Plus. When I ordered last from them (MTen3), it was similar: Long delay, followed by a non-functional tracking number, and then finally a real FedEx tracking number and an arrival a few days later.

Heard you Nikola Plus guys have been waiting over a month already with nothing.  @houseofjob is also patiently waiting.

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3 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

Heard you Nikola Plus guys have been waiting over a month already with nothing.  @houseofjob is also patiently waiting.

I got my order in a bit later than others but I suspect we're all in the same queue. I've seen a build date of June 9 on the 100v Nikola boards/wheels we've seen pictured recently, so I suspect we're in logistics limbo rather than a manufacturing delay. 

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1 hour ago, who_the said:

I got my order in a bit later than others but I suspect we're all in the same queue. I've seen a build date of June 9 on the 100v Nikola boards/wheels we've seen pictured recently, so I suspect we're in logistics limbo rather than a manufacturing delay. 

General rule of thumb for Green Fashion orders (at least when I look at their reviews on Aliexpress) is 35-40 days from the date of order to the USA.  Anything less is a bonus.

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On 7/10/2019 at 2:47 AM, Rywokast said:

yea just peel it off and put some grip tape on.. going to be one of the first things i do.. i know all too well with a ninebot in the rain not to trust rubber haha... if you can try not to tear it when you peel it off though that way you can just trace the shape on to the back of the grip tape sticker and cut it out

Once you remove the tape, there are screws to easily remove the bottom plate, which serves perfectly as a template for marking then trimming your replacement tape.

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7 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

General rule of thumb for Green Fashion orders (at least when I look at their reviews on Aliexpress) is 35-40 days from the date of order to the USA.  Anything less is a bonus.

They may have a monthly spot on a container ship to the US.

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3 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Cool! I understand there are some things you just have to try to understand. There have been plenty of times where I read the specs on something, tried it, and they just didn't capture the essence of the thing. Anyway, I'm going for it. I've got a Monster 100V on order!  :laughbounce2:

I hope you ordered the V3 monster though! 

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On 7/14/2019 at 7:22 PM, erk1024 said:

Question for the group... Why get a Monster? You get lower acceleration, greater weight, and greater cost. But also more speed (which I don't really want) and lots of range with huge batteries. I want to figure this out, as I'm considering ordering one.

Comfort

What determines comfort level? Is it the volume of air in the tire? The more air volume means the more the tire can deform when it hits an obstacle. If that's the case, then the MSX has more actual air volume, because it's a wider wheel. The volume of a torus is: (pi * r^2) * (2 * pi * R) where "R" is the large radius radius of the wheel (to the center of the inner tube) and "r" is the radius of the inner tube. In the case of the MSX, the wheel is 19.5". Divide that by two to get the outer radius, then subtract half the inner tube diameter and you get an R = 8.25", and an r = 1.5"

  • MSX: R = 8.25, r = 1.5, V = 366 cu in
  • 18XL: R = 8, r = 1.25, V = 246 cu in
  • Monster: R = 9.625, r = 1.375, V = 359 cu in
  • Nikola: R = 7.375, r = 1.5, V = 327 cu in

My 18XL has the smallest air volume of the bunch. Actually the MSX could have MORE air volume in the tire than the Monster. It's hard to say because the shape of the tire could have a big effect on this, and also if you look at this photo from earlier in the thread, it appears that some riders have put 3" tires on the Monster and it still clears the shell. Look at the red Monster, it has less clearance to the body. Of course, doing that would further reduce the available torque.

MonsterSeats.jpg.bbb9bb0532b41dfec6539fc76c5080f9.jpg

 

Roadworthiness 

Bigger tires are better at navigating bumps and holes. This seems intuitively obvious. If you want to think of this in terms of vectors, if you're riding a skateboard with a 3" diameter wheel and you hit a 2" cement curb (like when you have a section of sidewalk that's been lifted up by a tree's root), then the center of the wheel is below the height of the obstacle and the wheel will be pushed straight back horizontally! The wheel won't go up and over the lip, so skateboard comes to a dead stop, and the rider sails off the front. In practice, on a skateboard, if you get a chock-stone shaped rock that can slide along the cement, a very small rock can stall the wheel enough to unseat the rider. With a larger, 8.5" scooter wheel, the center of the wheel is above the obstacle so the vector of force has a backwards component and an upwards component. You'd think the scooter could make it over, but being that the rider is standing, the whole system is very top-heavy, and so it might still be enough to topple the rider. Suspension and deformation of the wheel greatly help in this situation, as they can allow the wheel to move up and over the obstacle without transferring all the force in that instant.

WheelGoingOverObstacle.thumb.png.5ff3cb3edfa7c1479aaf8c3fe96cbc8f.png

Our wheels don't have suspensions, but we do have big air filled tires. In any case, a bigger wheel means that for any obstacle, the vector of force is mostly UP instead of back. So this is another reason to get the bigger wheel of the monster. And bigger tires can be filled to a lower PSI which means they can deform a bit more which also helps. So that's a point in favor of getting a Monster.

Torque

The problem is that larger diameter tires are that much harder to accelerate. I won't go into the torque equations, but smaller wheels are much easier to spin up, and that's why wheels like the MCM5 feel so torqeu'y compared to the larger wheels. So this is a downside for the Monster. This could be overcome by a much more powerful motor, and the Monster V3's are supposed to have 2500 watt continuous motors, with some unknown peak wattage. But 500 extra watts is just a little more powerful.

Stability

Larger wheels are said to be more "stable". I'm not sure exactly what that means. Just the extra rotating mass means they want to stay upright more than other wheels or they are not as twitchy? A wider wheel means you have more of a contact patch on the ground, so they are easier to balance, but also resist turning? Also the amount of weight compared to the size of the wheel plays into the speed wobble equation, so maybe they are more stable in that respect?

Why am I considering one?

I've got an 18xl, and it's really fun. It's super nimble in terms of going around pedestrians, steering past road hazards, going up and down sidewalk ramps. With my weight (120kg), it probably doesn't make sense to go with a smaller wheel. I run the tire pressure at 50psi, and that means the bumps I do hit can give pretty substantial jolts. I'm used to it, and it's not a big problem, but a smoother ride would be welcome. I was cruising uphill at 25mph the other night on a section of road that didn't have a shoulder and I wanted to get back to a section of road that had a bike lane at least. The persistent whine of the motor was getting quite loud. I assume the wheel would tilt me back if I was getting close to the limit of its power. And I don't push my luck in situations like that. So all in all, the 18XL is a fine, useful, fun wheel with lots of range. 

@Marty Backe said a Monster was the best wheel for big guys, and I believe him. I already have an 18" wheel, so it would be cool to try something different, a larger wheel, and a Gotway instead of a Kingsong to see how they ride differently. But it would be a drag if the Monster feels sluggish to accelerate, or if I overleaned it, or ...

Very nice write up! I have been doing similar calculations today (it's raining here in Stockholm, Sweden).
With my volume difference calculation between the 18XL and the MSuper X you could be riding at 35 PSI instead of 45 PSI.

I have recently been doing quite a bit of riding on a V10 and on a V10f. They are both very comfortable to ride on and nicely sized for me as I am 163cm and weigh 64kg.
The shape of the tyre matters. The compound as well. In the case of the V10 it is a bit more square. The MSuper X and 18XL are more balloonish and at higher PSI you will end up riding the edge of the tyre making it wobbly and hard.

As others have answered tyre diameter is a factor when overcoming obstacles and so is tyre deformation. Stability comes from the contact patch as well as the way the wheel is balanced. The 18L wants to flop over, the 18XL doesn't. The MSX has the pads positioned lower than the 18XL/L and the V10. This combined with high pedals can make it unforgiving in some scenarios like high speed turns. Ergonomically I would say the V10 is more comfortable than the 18XL and the MSX. The most forgiving ride when it comes to potholes goes to the MSX. The MSX also tramlines the most though and likes to follow side to side undulations wandering left to right. Easy to catch but still something to think about.

The Monster definitely sounds like the perfect wheel for you! You weigh almost twice as much as me and i'm sure it will fit you quite nicely. Heck even I have considered a Monster.

The 100v is out with an extra 615WH pack on it bringing it to 2400wh+! Green Fashion sells it and I imagine that's the one you ordered as the only other alternative supplier I know of is a supplier in Poland (keep forgetting their name).

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20 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

With my volume difference calculation between the 18XL and the MSuper X you could be riding at 35 PSI instead of 45 PSI.

That's the idea. 35 psi seems like a more forgiving ride. 

As far as the acceleration goes, I think the consensus is that larger wheels are like being in a higher gear, so peak acceleration happens at a higher speed and is sustained for a longer period. Smaller wheels have a lot of low end torque but acceleration decreases as the speed increases. Marty made a good point that if you don't do really aggressive starts, then the Monster will feel pretty normal. People who've ridden the V2 said acceleration was better than the V1. Maybe the V3 will be better still? We'll see I guess. 

I ordered the 100V Monster V3 with 1845wh batteries. It will be around 60ish pounds, so lighter than the super heavy 2400wh or 2460wh versions. I'd be happy if I got similar range to the 18XL.

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56 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

I ordered the 100V Monster V3 with 1845wh batteries. It will be around 60ish pounds, so lighter than the super heavy 2400wh or 2460wh versions. I'd be happy if I got similar range to the 18XL.

May I ask how much and where you ordered the 100v Monster V3- 1845wh? I'm still waiting to order a V3 84v 2400wh from Ewheels.

PQ

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