Popular Post Jason McNeil Posted May 6, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 6, 2019 Effective from tomorrow, Paypal has updated their terms of service, where they will no longer be crediting back the 2.9% fee when orders are refunded. For small transactions, it's inconsequential, but when your selling Scooters & Wheels, on a $3850 transaction, this equates to $111 that Paypal feels entitled to. No other merchant service anywhere in the world has this daft measure, guess it's time to say goodbye to Paypal from this point forward. https://www.techspot.com/news/79545-paypal-new-refund-policy-has-sellers-up-arms.html 8 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 PayPal could have been very gentle with you, instead of hauling you out of the parking garage and bending you over the radio car hood. Time have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Love Louis, watched all of it.. and i agree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Now we may want to go with Stripe and/or other payment gateways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tessa25 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I'm surprised Paypal doesn't allow Voids before the transaction settles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I closed my PayPal account the day they pulled the carpet on ASMR, so I'm on all the boats since then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arbolest Posted May 6, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said: Effective from tomorrow, Paypal has updated their terms of service, where they will no longer be crediting back the 2.9% fee when orders are refunded. For small transactions, it's inconsequential, but when your selling Scooters & Wheels, on a $3850 transaction, this equates to $111 that Paypal feels entitled to. No other merchant service anywhere in the world has this daft measure, guess it's time to say goodbye to Paypal from this point forward. https://www.techspot.com/news/79545-paypal-new-refund-policy-has-sellers-up-arms.html Holy cow... I've been a loyal PayPal user for like.... 12?... 13 years? I've never had an issue using their services. In fact, I've often enjoyed the simplicity and security and use it whenever possible in the face of other payment methods. I trust Paypal. But geez... this feels slimy! This is going to make it very hard for merchants to want to use it, and so will give people like me little to no opportunity to use it in turn... I can hardly believe this! If their decision isn't met with huge backlash and rescinded/reversed almost immediately, they may have just lost me... Crap man, I'm sorry this had to happen, on many different fronts, and I'm sure it must come as a really low blow to good people like you, @Jason McNeil. As much as it sucks though, you're certainly not going to lose me as a customer over this! Edited May 6, 2019 by Arbolest 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I use Paypal because of the convenience factor (I don't have to provide a merchant my credit card or all the shipping details, etc.). But originally Paypal was a great service that allowed people to transfer funds for things like EBay, and was not used in commercial transactions (to the best of my memory). Surely the vast majority of people that use Paypal have a credit card that they can use directly with the merchant. So it's really no loss if the merchants stop offering Paypal. I suppose why people like Jason see Paypal as a benefit is that its use offers the potential customer a low-friction means of making a purchase. Low-friction probably equates to more sales. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steef Klonoa Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Hmm. Glad I saw this. Thank you for keeping us in the loop Jason. I work as a buyer so fortunately on my end I won't be impacted by refunds, but I do buy thousands of dollars of unwanted inventory using paypal on a regular basis. Will be interesting to see what effect it might have on my vendors, if they send me a bunch of junk and I need a refund, might not go down well if they are unaware of the new policy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I've see the numbers, it's not that the company doesn't earn much, they earn more than enough for a continent! but still, they want MOAAAR.. Since i saw the video the other day i'm searching for alternatives, Stripe / N26 (transfer funds first then use), .. I'm open to suggestions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetricUSA Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Topic in Wrong Forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Not quite wrong, cause for example in Europe, there are many stores that accept paypal, some of these store are owned by people here and a small number of them i can consider friends. They haven't seen that things changed with charges and it's good to discuss about it cause wheels tend to cost more than enough to break a store's profit margin. If you think it should be moved, ok no problem, but it is a serious matter that should be discussed, people must be informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel-Son Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 What about Apple Pay? I don’t see it as an option. Apple Pay is my preferred payment option, if it was an option. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esper Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Daniel-Son said: What about Apple Pay? I don’t see it as an option. Apple Pay is my preferred payment option, if it was an option. If there was one company in the world I could get rid of, it would be Apple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel-Son Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Esper said: If there was one company in the world I could get rid of, it would be Apple. So I take it that you will not be using Apple Pay if were an option. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esper Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daniel-Son said: So I take it that you will not be using Apple Pay if were an option. That is correct. But don't let my feelings for Apple stop you from doing what you want. I just wanted to express my hatred for a company that makes defective products that self destruct when you try to fix it. Imagine if Gotway did that. Buy a new battery, plug it in, and then the control board explodes because it isn't a Gotway Brand battery installed by certified Gotway Technicians. Or if you sent it in to fix/replace a broken Mosfet, they said, "ah bummer, it's gonna cost you $2600 for us to fix it, so it would be cheaper to just buy a new one. Take a look at this new version." Edited May 7, 2019 by Esper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Daniel-Son said: What about Apple Pay? I don’t see it as an option. Apple Pay is my preferred payment option, if it was an option. + 6 hours ago, Esper said: If there was one company in the world I could get rid of, it would be Apple. Guys... Apple pay, Samsung Pay, etc, they only work in the US and specific countries in EU, not in all, and that is a huge problem, like for example Greece you can't use any of the ones i mentioned. Also we need to be sure that when we buy something we don't ask for a refund, surely after the news that PayPal did that Google will remove the refund from it's payment gateway for apps/music/books/etc.. heck they even added Paysafe as a measure of payment (!!! epic feature). But there are ways to go by, like Revolut, N26, Skrill, and many others, that give you a card (like MasterCard) that you can load money in it and use it everywhere, so you may not need to go thru PayPal and also have control over your physical or virtual card on the spot! With logical/proper fee's and means to secure transactions! Load the amount you need to spend this week and use it!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rama Douglas Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) On 5/6/2019 at 12:07 PM, Jason McNeil said: Effective from tomorrow, Paypal has updated their terms of service, where they will no longer be crediting back the 2.9% fee when orders are refunded. For small transactions, it's inconsequential, but when your selling Scooters & Wheels, on a $3850 transaction, this equates to $111 that Paypal feels entitled to. No other merchant service anywhere in the world has this daft measure, guess it's time to say goodbye to Paypal from this point forward. https://www.techspot.com/news/79545-paypal-new-refund-policy-has-sellers-up-arms.html PayPal is Satan incarnate. I used to sell (a lot) with perfect feedback score as a seller on eBay. I used to have my funds held by PayPal, until after shipping. Well, that never worked for me, because usually if I was selling on eBay, it meant that I was hard up for ca$h. I would have to call up PayPal after each sale, and literally beg and plead with them for hours, asking for supervisors, and their bosses to please release the funds, as I didn't have money to ship the items, until the sale funds (including shipping costs) were released to me. Seems like simple logic, but they loved making it difficult on me. Later, I was the victim of fraud from selling a video mixer. Couple weeks went by after the sale, and I noticed that the funds from that sale were taken out of my bank account. I later called PayPal and asked them what's up. They said the buyer claimed to have never rcvd the item. I said, ok, no worries, I've got delivery confirmation. So I sent that in to PayPal to indeed prove that it was delivered. They told me they only had a two week policy for me to appeal the claim. Since I didn't notice within 2 weeks, and after pleading with bosses, and their bosses, they still sided with the buyer, even after sending in the proof that he was lying. 😡 It later went to collections, and I still have been unable to sell on eBay. Sorry, not Sorry, but F#@k PayPal!!!! Edited May 7, 2019 by Rama Douglas 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tessa25 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 What's wrong with using a plain old online credit card account? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 It's not secure, as much as we don't like paypal for what its doing, it's gd secure. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esper Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Nah, we should use Facebook Pay! /s What about transaction apps, like Venmo or Cash App? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunwheel Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 On 5/6/2019 at 12:07 PM, Jason McNeil said: Effective from tomorrow, Paypal has updated their terms of service, where they will no longer be crediting back the 2.9% fee when orders are refunded. For small transactions, it's inconsequential, but when your selling Scooters & Wheels, on a $3850 transaction, this equates to $111 that Paypal feels entitled to. No other merchant service anywhere in the world has this daft measure, guess it's time to say goodbye to Paypal from this point forward. https://www.techspot.com/news/79545-paypal-new-refund-policy-has-sellers-up-arms.html Wow, this is going to piss off a huge segment of the merchant population! I was notified a about six months ago that Paypal was considering this move, I just didn't believe they would actually do it. Well, we'll see how this effects the overall sentiment of the business owners that use Paypal. Thanks Jason for posting:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted May 8, 2019 Author Share Posted May 8, 2019 (edited) On 5/6/2019 at 4:48 PM, Lefteris said: Now we may want to go with Stripe and/or other payment gateways. Yeah, we use Stripe already as well. Stripe is excellent for general payments, they also accept Apple & Google Pay. Paypal was so easy to make payment adjustments on orders, send referral credits, or request payments for parts orders. There's many other invoicing solutions out there, but it's something else to maintain, more time doing the same things... On 5/6/2019 at 5:46 PM, Arbolest said: l PayPal user for like.... 12?... 13 years? I've never had an issue using their services. In fact, I've often enjoyed the simplicity and security and use it whenever possible in the face of other payment methods. I trust Paypal. But geez... this feels slimy! Rossman's point was the incremental computing effort to process refunds is negligible, these settlement systems have existed for decades, are well-established. There doesn't seem to be any justification for this unprecedented move; the fear is that if there is not a substantial reaction, then other merchant services will feel they can get away with this measure as well. 18 hours ago, Rama Douglas said: Seems like simple logic, but they loved making it difficult on me. Later, I was the victim of fraud from selling a video mixer. Couple weeks went by after the sale, and I noticed that the funds from that sale were taken out of my bank account. The whole Consumer legal protection system could be codified to: 1) try to act in the interests of your Customers, 2) Don't be Evil! Using these two yardsticks, does Paypal pass the test? Merchant services is already incredibly lucrative, what does it actual entail, a couple servers in a data-center? It was Paypal that launched Elon Musk, as well as endowing Jack Dorsey with his other couple billion. Edited May 8, 2019 by Jason McNeil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasP Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I run a completely different/unrelated business (a service actually) that also happens to accept online transactions through PayPal which are in the similar price range ($500-2000 transactions). Thoughts on a proper replacement? Must support both domestic US and international payments so things like venmo (us only) and transferwise (international only/can't pay US-to-US) are out. Are there any services with fixed transaction fees instead of percentage based? (Even if the fixed fee was high it could be cheaper for those of us dealing in primarily large transfers.) Every couple years I do a bunch of research into alternatives but there was never any clearly better alternative. (Although I guess now with this latest change over refunds, even some of the less-than-perfect replacements might become better.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I don't like that PayPal, Patreon, Amazon, AirBNB, YouTube, and many if not most other merchant/financial exchangers exclude people who haven't been convicted of a crime. Agnostic services that purposefully don't care what their customers are, except perhaps those that are known financial felons; otherwise provide service to all at a reasonable profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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