UK EUC law... careful what we wish for...?

[Planemo]

Since getting my first wheel I have been torn between what I would like to see and what I wouldn't like to see regarding the legality. On the one hand, the fact that they are illegal in the UK does have the side effect of there not being many wheels around. Due to this, most police (beat/response officers) probably wouldn't know what one is, let alone the law surrounding them. Further, us EUC riders have the side benefit in the UK in that the police are so over-run with work that they will nearly always have more important things to do than deal with an EUC rider.

The downside of them being illegal does however cause the obvious problems ranging from possible seizure (a traffic officer most likely) to, God forbid, a fatality involving an EUC. With no insurance or licence, I would certainly be gripping the rail in a Crown Court. Not to mention the personal liability claim which would inevitably be coming my way. The claim alone could ruin me financially, let alone imprisonment for death by careless/dangerous. Despite the chances of it happening, It's a harrowing thought.

On the other side, having read some comments on other threads regarding those countries/cities which have made them legal, the laws usually come with somewhat stringent rules on power/speed.

If the UK was to legalise EUC's, at the very best it would be to a max of 25kmh (15.5mph) as I cannot see them being allowed to travel faster than our e-bikes. Further, e-bikes are limited to 250w, so where does that leave the EUC? If they were to limit EUC's to the same power, what could one realistically call a 'safe' speed? 7mph? It would hardly seem worth it. If we argued that EUC's need more power as much of it is used to self-balance, would the UK government roll over? Would they risk it, given that they know the wheels would be modded by some people? It's different to our moped/125cc motorcycle situation as they are pretty much built to give X power and it's not easy to get (significantly) more out. The local hoodies would no doubt however find a way of extracting every single watt possible if it meant they could prove to 'da boyz' that their wheel is the fastest. I accept that FW could be made pretty secure, but would the big players do this for specific markets? Unlikely.

Running alongside the above, and now having put more and more miles on my wheel (nearly always in company with my daughter) I am becoming increasingly aware that we are getting noticed in my fairly small town. Virtually every time we go out we end up having a chat with someone who is interested in our wheels. Yesterday it was the land keeper of the common ground we were riding through, but we have been accosted by intrigued Mums, joggers, dog walkers and even the local Cub Scout group who were on the common a few days previous. Up until now everyone has been extremely nice and their interest has only been due to amazement and interest, not anger. Hence why I have spent time to explain how they work, what they do and how much fun we have on them. Most have commented that it's so nice to see a father and daughter having fun outdoors together. The number of people that have said this brought it home to me that maybe us fathers don't usually do enough with our daughters....I digress.

As a result of the above, I am wondering how long it will take word to get around that a father and daughter are also running around the town on illegal electrical devices that are also being used in parks/common areas/pavements where very small children are running and playing. Of course, when we are near to anyone (including dogs) we drop our speed to no more than jogging speed and always thank those that step aside for us, but it remains that we are riding around illegally. Not to mention that some jobsworth would no doubt put forward that it would be irresponsible of a father to entice his daughter into an illegal activity.

So this leaves me in a bit of a dilemma. Do I just carry on as I am, being nice, polite and talkative to everyone that I come across (which my nature almost forces me to do) or do I try to avoid people wherever possible, thereby not drawing as much attention to myself and, perversely, not get anyone interested in them for fear of more EUC's running around town thereby increasing the chance of local plod getting wind of them. It would only take a mention of it during one of their local briefings for them to be very aware that people are riding around on one-wheeled illegal death traps, including children no less!

On the one hand I would dearly love some EUC buddies nearby. On the other....it could be a downfall. As I say....be careful what I wish for?

[LanghamP]

This is silly; the only reason an EUC would be confiscated is because someone didn't want it around. EUC aren't dangerous to anyone except their users.

Take your EUC to the local playground, then try to roll your unmanned/runaway EUC over as many children as you can. Do you possibly think an EUC is anywhere as dangerous as the smallest car?

Has anyone on an EUC ever killed another person?

[Planemo]

7 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

This is silly; the only reason an EUC would be confiscated is because someone didn't want it around. EUC aren't dangerous to anyone except their users.

Take your EUC to the local playground, then try to roll your unmanned/runaway EUC over as many children as you can. Do you possibly think an EUC is anywhere as dangerous as the smallest car?

Has anyone on an EUC ever killed another person?

It is all a bit silly, yes. But still a valid discussion IMO because rules are rules. I didn't make the topic to discuss the chances of anything happening, but to raise a viewpoint.

Confiscation of both my wheels would cause me a loss of around £1000. So there is at least that.

I would have to disagree that EUC's are not dangerous to anyone except the user. You have a different view which is fine.

Clearly, an EUC isn't as dangerous as a small car. And I wasn't necessarily talking about a runaway one (although still possible, so has to be included - thanks for that addition), I was more talking about a collision between a moving rider and a child. Whilst I try my best, as does my daughter, to avoid people at all costs, children are unpredictable by nature. As are adults to be frank.

If you feel the whole issue is a non-starter with you that's fine

[LanghamP]

24 minutes ago, Planemo said:

But still a valid discussion IMO because rules are rules. I didn't make the topic to discuss the chances of anything happening, but to raise a viewpoint.

A wheel hitting an object tips backwards then immediately and powerfully starts moving in the opposite direction. Getting hit by a wheel at speed feels like getting hit by a wet noodle.

In contrast, getting hit by a non-balancing vehicle actually feels like a collision, because the vehicle doesn't try to go in the opposite direction of the collision.

Therefore you shouldn't be concerned with a runaway wheel. However, if you're on the wheel, then we can assume you're on a slightly slow bicycle. 

Fortunately, 100% of fatalities of NYC (as an example) were caused by drivers, so again hitting someone with an EUC or bicycle is unlikely to kill them.

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/12/31/in-memoriam-the-lives-we-lost-to-road-violence-in-2018/

[Coffee guy]

@Planemo
 you sound like a fairly experienced and responsible rider. If perchance "you" ever get hit by a car in all those pedestrian paths, cycleways and parks, I couldn't imagine that "you'd" be the object of fingerpointing.  The idiot-driver shouldn't be in the place(s) you seem to go through. My opinion is that your transgression, being the lesser of the evils, would be overlooked, and the 'euc' part left out of the report. (speaking from experience, but unrelated to euc's). 

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Therefore you shouldn't be concerned with a runaway wheel.

Personally I wouldnt deem the mass of the runaway wheel in Rober Ace's video to be totally irrelevant:

Admittedly I wouldnt be doing those speeds next to pedestrians either but at some point all of us (including me) will be poking the bear. I dont think too much about legalities when I am riding my bicycle at 17mph on the road because I am allowed to be there, not riding on an unlicensed, uninsured vehicle. If a child ran out into the road without looking whilst I was cycling normally on a well maintained bike it is highly unlikely I would suffer any criminal action even if, God fordid, a fatality occured. On an euc I wouldnt be afforded the same grace. It would be death by careless given that I was careless in choosing to ride an illegal vehicle.

Dont get me wrong, when we talk about the chances of a runaway wheel, a wheel and rider or even just a falling rider having a collision with a pedestrian which might result in serious or life changing injuries, the odds are somewhat slim. It doesnt mean the odds arent there. We all make our choices and we can all ride to how we see fit for our surroundings.

Despite the above, the real crux of my original post was...do I want to see eucs become mainstream before they are legalised...? I'm still on the fence, despite my wish that everyone had one at some point in their lives