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DanCar

V8 vs KingSong 18L and foot placement

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Recently acquired a KS 18L used.  Really nice machine.  Compared to V8 I was surprised that it is not silent, but the high pitch whine may make it more safe as I come up from people from behind they may have an inkling that I'm there.  Enjoy the extra speed of the 18L, hopefully I won't pay for it with a hospital visit.  I don't regularly use safety gear because my daily commute is only 1.3 miles.  When not on my regular commute I do put on more safety gear.  So far I'm only doing a max of about 22 mph.  V8 max was 19 mph with uncomfortable tilt back and alarm.

Changing subjects: foot placement on pedals: I notice that my feet hurt less if I ride with my feet forward on the pedals.  Line up the back of my feet with pedal, and front feet are over the pedals by 3 to 4 inches.  I suspect this causes less foot strain because less is required to lean forward and go faster.

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If you stand back at the pedals, you are doing a calf workout all the time while riding. Same as standing on the balls of your feet. Finding a relaxed center position is indeed crucial in avoiding leg and foot pain.

If you stand too much forward, accelerating may be really easy, but emergency braking gets quite a bit slower. When starting a ride, I used to make a few very short acceleration-braking pendulums at around 10km/h to get a feel of my center position. I no longer need to do that on my main wheel as I know my optimal position pretty well.

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How has the transition from a 16' to 18' tire been going?

Also, you should at least wear a helmet regardless of the distance! 1.3 miles is plenty for something in the unicycle to go wrong or for an irresponsible driver to run you over, and it only takes one accident to mess you up for life!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

1.3 miles is plenty for something in the unicycle to go wrong or for an irresponsible driver to run you over, and it only takes one accident to mess you up for life!

That's why pedestrians for sure should wear a helmet as well :popcorn:

Edited by Mono

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On 4/30/2019 at 12:42 PM, mikemarz88 said:

How has the transition from a 16' to 18' tire been going?

Also, you should at least wear a helmet regardless of the distance! 1.3 miles is plenty for something in the unicycle to go wrong or for an irresponsible driver to run you over, and it only takes one accident to mess you up for life!

Transition from 16 to 18 was like zero.  I notice the 18 has a smoother ride.  I was surprised that my telephone gps speed meter says my top speed is now 30 mph.  Everytime I look at it I'm never going faster than 25.  Having fun zipping around faster than my v8, although I'm leery of the day it is going to bite me.

I'm not much of a helmet person.  Before unicycle I rode my bike everyday to work and never used one.  When I was learning to ride a unicycle, I would often gear up heavily except for helmet.  Never had an accident where helmet would have helped, including lots of skateboarding as a teenager.  I did wear a helmet when trying to ride backwards on my EUC.  Haven't gotten the hang of that one yet.

I'm worried about irresponsible driver.  Might wear a helmet one day just so I can strap a gopro to it.  Have been a few instances of aggressive drivers coming closer than I'd like.  Wondering if getting a small paint gun will help. :)

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Nice! I'm in the process of looking for a nicer 16'-18' wheel to upgrade from my V5F. I'm attracted to the smooth ride of an 18', but as a city rider I'm thinking a 16' might be a better choice while still being an upgrade from the 14' V5F. Probably going to pick up a Tesla - new or used is the question!

10 hours ago, DanCar said:

Have been a few instances of aggressive drivers coming closer than I'd like.  Wondering if getting a small paint gun will help. :)

Great idea! I'm sure a few well-placed paintballs will calm down even the most aggressive drivers :P

On 4/30/2019 at 7:02 PM, Mono said:

That's why pedestrians for sure should wear a helmet as well :popcorn:

@Mono My only argument here is that helmets reduce the risk of death or serious brain injury in an accident. If there's evidence to disprove that, please let me know so I can stop wearing a helmet too! I hate having to fix my helmet hair every morning when I get to work! 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mikemarz88 said:

 

@Mono My only argument here is that helmets reduce the risk of death or serious brain injury in an accident. If there's evidence to disprove that, please let me know so I can stop wearing a helmet too! I hate having to fix my helmet hair every morning when I get to work! 

 

I think it depends on the person.  Some people have experience in falling and others don't.  Some are in more risky environment than others.

 

According to the video at the 6:30 mark, greater chance of injury while wearing a helmet.  I don't believe it, but it is interesting.  Video recommends to rage a war on cars instead of bicycles.

Edited by DanCar

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2 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

My only argument here is that helmets reduce the risk of death or serious brain injury in an accident.

My point was that the same may very well be true for pedestrians (as also commented in the above vid). And the same is true for driving around in a car: wearing a helmet reduces the risk of death or serious brain injury in an accident. My point is that we most of the time don't go by the data but by the prejudices established in society: we never seriously consider wearing a helmet as a pedestrian, while we do as a cyclist.

Getting back to the rational case for EUCs: you may want to not only consider the case when an accident happens but also whether it happens. If not wearing a helmet incentivises you to go just a tid bid slower and less risky, or the car driver next to you for that matter, you may be even better off without.

 

2 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

If there's evidence to disprove that, please let me know so I can stop wearing a helmet too! I hate having to fix my helmet hair every morning when I get to work! 

It may depend on where you live whether it is rational to wear a helmet riding an EUC or bicycle. What is pretty clear to me though is that the positive effect of wearing a helmet on a bicycle is generally exaggerated (if it exists).

@DanCar, nice find!

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@DanCar @Mono Definitely all fair points. I watched the videos, I have heard these arguments before, and they definitely makes sense when it comes to bicycles. Regardless of what you're riding, in most cases, wearing a plastic helmet won't save your life if you get hit by a vehicle. 

In other non-vehicle-related situations, I do feel that eUnicycles and eSkateboards are completely different from bikes in that you are standing on a rapidly moving platform, rather than sitting. There's farther to fall in the event of an unexpected stoppage, and when you fall your head goes right to the pavement. For that reason, I think looking at injury data for skateboarders makes more sense than for cyclists. Here's a 2010 study of 2,270 skateboarding injuries, the study pretty conclusively states that "helmet utilization and designated skateboard areas significantly reduce the incidence of serious head injuries."

I also found a short documentary on a kid who injured himself riding a boosted board on a running track. Obviously I have no way of knowing, but if he was wearing a helmet, chances are he would've gotten right back up and continued riding. I also included the 'I Love Helmets' video because it's awesome.

Ultimately, it doesn't hurt anyone else if you don't wear a helmet, so I don't care if people wear helmets or not, but I'm definitely going to keep wearing mine. The last thing I would want to do is discourage someone from enjoying bikes, EUCs, esk8. I won't ever lecture someone for not wearing a helmet, but if I can convince a few other people to start I consider it a good deed. 

Also, thanks for the great convo!

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

Here's a 2010 study of 2,270 skateboarding injuries, the study pretty conclusively states that "helmet utilization and designated skateboard areas significantly reduce the incidence of serious head injuries."

Have you read the study? I wasn't able to access it. I don't doubt much that a helmet is protective when you bang with your head on the ground and there are similar hospital admission studies for cyclers. Hospital admission studies can not conclusively answer the question though whether one should wear a helmet for safety reasons.

6 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

I also found a short documentary on a kid who injured himself riding a boosted board on a running track.

Has been posted already several times in this forum, unsurprisingly. No idea how a speed test on a running track going bad could make a point for wearing a helmet outside of this setting, even if it were not only a single documented case. We can all agree that you cannot bang your head at 30km/h into the ground and expect that everything will be fine. If you do a speed stunt at the limit of your skill set, by all means, wear a helmet!

6 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

Ultimately, it doesn't hurt anyone else if you don't wear a helmet

I am not sure about that, but funnily enough it might hurt people if you do wear a helmet, which is easy to understand if you watched the TEDx video carefully. Promoting helmet use can (and most likely does) hurt society, meaning it hurts individuals in the society which adapt their behavior to the (wrongly) perceived danger of the activity. If you were invisible to others, you wouldn't hurt anyone, but when people see you wearing a helmet you might actually hurt them and others. I don't think that should influence your decision though.

Of course your typical speed is a quite relevant factor for this decision (which you have already taken anyway :P)

6 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

The last thing I would want to do is discourage someone from enjoying bikes, EUCs, esk8.

Well, then the decision should be crystal clear to not wear a helmet. It definitely discourages a considerable percentage of people with an additional gender bias effect. The message from wearing a helmet is pretty clear: this is a life threatening activity. How could you think that this is not a discouragement for a relevant fraction of the population?

Edited by Mono

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11 hours ago, mikemarz88 said:

My only argument here is that helmets reduce the risk of death or serious brain injury in an accident.

No no, it’s not about that. It’s about wether you are ”a helmet person”, as @DanCar said. That’s how we shop head gear after all, we are either helmet persons, stetson persons, etc.

Do you really think that since @DanCar has never had an accident where a helmet would’ve helped, somehow he could have one in the future?

We all have our ”reasons”.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Mono said:

The message from wearing a helmet is pretty clear: this is a life threatening activity.

Yep, like with seat belts. Airplane personnel really should stop asking to wear seat belts. That’s why air traffic is doing so badly nowadays, the seat belts are a dead giveaway that the plane is expected to crash. The first company to remove the seat belts is going to rule the markets, since everyone will surely choose them as a safer alternative.

Edited by mrelwood

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Posted (edited)

True, seat belts are an admission of potentially life threatening events as well and many people have fear of flying, though probably not due to seat belts. The bloodshed due to driving cars however is silently accepted as unavoidable. Driving or walking is not perceived as a dangerous activity. There is really nothing wrong with mandatory seat belts in cars and airplanes, while the same cannot be said for helmets on bicycles, not even close. When it comes to cycling or EUCing, in contrast to walking or driving, people wonder all the time whether this isn't too dangerous to do. The perception of risk is not necessarily rational.

I found it interesting to hear that the automobile industry is a main lobbyist for wearing bicycle helmets, most likely not because they are good people (I am sure they are :whistling:) but because they know that helmets will prevent people to start cycling instead of driving a car. Likewise, the disappointing consequences from the bicycle helmet promotion campaigns in Denmark. It's not rocket science to understand this mechanism.

Edited by Mono

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I have luckily been able to stop myself from faceplanting or hitting my head in a crash and I’ve crashed at top speed three times now.  But that didn’t stop me from ordering a bell super dh helmet.   I don’t like worrying about breaking my jaw or loosing my teeth. I like my face... hey if you don’t care about that possibility then go for it.  I hope you never need a helmet.    But I prefer to be safe.  I also feel that it lets people know you are on a serious vehicle and they notice you more .  Just my honest opinion. 

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On 4/28/2019 at 7:42 AM, DanCar said:

Recently acquired a KS 18L used.  Really nice machine.  Compared to V8 I was surprised that it is not silent, but the high pitch whine may make it more safe as I come up from people from behind they may have an inkling that I'm there.  Enjoy the extra speed of the 18L, hopefully I won't pay for it with a hospital visit.  I don't regularly use safety gear because my daily commute is only 1.3 miles.  When not on my regular commute I do put on more safety gear.  So far I'm only doing a max of about 22 mph.  V8 max was 19 mph with uncomfortable tilt back and alarm.

Changing subjects: foot placement on pedals: I notice that my feet hurt less if I ride with my feet forward on the pedals.  Line up the back of my feet with pedal, and front feet are over the pedals by 3 to 4 inches.  I suspect this causes less foot strain because less is required to lean forward and go faster.

Adjust your wheel with a slightly forward tilt and buy the larger pedals available at Ewheels.com (from the 18XL). Makes a gigantic difference in comfort. Only downside is you can no longer ride the wheel either way, but if you have the balls installed (rain flap) it doesn't matter anyway.

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On 5/2/2019 at 10:57 PM, mrelwood said:

Yep, like with seat belts. Airplane personnel really should stop asking to wear seat belts. That’s why air traffic is doing so badly nowadays, the seat belts are a dead giveaway that the plane is expected to crash. The first company to remove the seat belts is going to rule the markets, since everyone will surely choose them as a safer alternative.

You can’t do comparisons to bicycles like airplanes. Air travel is essential, you can’t make it to destinations in due time or even at all without air travel. 

Traveling by bicycle is purely optional. You can get a taxi or drive your car  or take a bus. Any risk that the public perceives an activity to have they weigh it against other options. There is no weighing the risks of air travel as there is no other option that can get you someplace fast enough or across the sea. 

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3 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Air travel is essential

A large part of air travel in general is for leasure. Personally I don’t use air travel at all, and I do most of my essential travels with an EUC.

Anyway, this argument turned pointless several turns ago.

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6 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

You can’t do comparisons to bicycles like airplanes. Air travel is essential, you can’t make it to destinations in due time or even at all without air travel. 

@Darrell Wesh the comment of @mrelwood was hyperbolic to ridicule my comment, it was not meant to be serious.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/3/2019 at 8:16 AM, Mono said:

True, seat belts are an admission of potentially life threatening events as well and many people have fear of flying, though probably not due to seat belts. The bloodshed due to driving cars however is silently accepted as unavoidable. Driving or walking is not perceived as a dangerous activity. There is really nothing wrong with mandatory seat belts in cars and airplanes, while the same cannot be said for helmets on bicycles, not even close. When it comes to cycling or EUCing, in contrast to walking or driving, people wonder all the time whether this isn't too dangerous to do. The perception of risk is not necessarily rational.

 

3 hours ago, Mono said:

@Darrell Wesh the comment of @mrelwood was hyperbolic to ridicule my comment, it was not meant to be serious.

LOL! You ridicule me for replying to @mrelwood airplane jab but yet you yourself reply to it like he’s being serious. 

Ok. 

Edited by Darrell Wesh

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9 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

 

LOL! You ridicule me for replying to @mrelwood airplane jab but yet you yourself reply to it like he’s being serious. 

Ok. 

Sorry, I didn't mean at all to ridicule you. Just wanted to let you know, in case you didn't.

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On 4/30/2019 at 9:42 PM, mikemarz88 said:

How has the transition from a 16' to 18' tire been going?

Also, you should at least wear a helmet regardless of the distance! 1.3 miles is plenty for something in the unicycle to go wrong or for an irresponsible driver to run you over, and it only takes one accident to mess you up for life!

True true. It only takes 10meters to gain enough speed and faceplant for life. Take care of yourself. 

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On 4/28/2019 at 9:42 PM, DanCar said:

Changing subjects: foot placement on pedals: I notice that my feet hurt less if I ride with my feet forward on the pedals.  Line up the back of my feet with pedal, and front feet are over the pedals by 3 to 4 inches.  I suspect this causes less foot strain because less is required to lean forward and go faster.

I ride both my own 18L and (under duress or when the 18L is being maintained) my partner's V8, and I do notice that 'centre' on the V8 is, of course, not 'centre' on the 18L.

I tend to stand a little further forward on the 18L than the V8, but would still consider it quite far 'back' on the pedal (only the very tips of my toes over the front of the pedal) for easier braking and less toe cramping.

I had the dickens of a time riding the V8 recently and took no small amount of happiness in bugging him about upgrading to a real wheel until I adjusted my feet to where the balls of my feet were on the front edge of the pedal. :D

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