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5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I can see other projects that will more value to more people than spending 1 developers time to add this relative niche product. You might have seen this from the post @Seba@seba made yesterday about the future of EUC.WORLD. 

You're 100 % right, but I finally decided to give this device a try. While it may be a niche product, it's like an insurance. In very race case of theft, it may significantly improve chances of getting wheel back. I promised Ryszard to make some tests and I had to create a software stack for these tests. This stack could serve other users as well, so I decided to release it after next EUC World release.

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Posted (edited)

Cool, now I just have to wait that they start selling data plans as cheap as in Poland here in Japan :D

Maybe a 10 years wait :(

Edited by Coco66

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5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I can see other projects that will more value to more people than spending 1 developers time to add this relative niche product. You might have seen this from the post @Seba@seba made yesterday about the future of EUC.WORLD.

I agree that supporting niche products is not a good use of time if there are more important things to focus on, on the other hand I was asking because @Seba had already spent some time adding support on EUC World for the GPS and testing it on several ways, and I believe that everything would have been a waste of time if all that effort would have been discarded at the end

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Just now, Coco66 said:

Cool, now I just have to wait that they start selling data plans as cheap as in Poland here in Japan :D

Maybe a 10 years wait :(

Actually you can adjust position reporting rate to fit in much smaller data plan :) I'm using 15 seconds interval, but one minute is enough for this purpose and means four times less data usage.

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11 minutes ago, Seba said:

You're 100 % right, but I finally decided to give this device a try. While it may be a niche product, it's like an insurance. In very race case of theft, it may significantly improve chances of getting wheel back. I promised Ryszard to make some tests and I had to create a software stack for these tests. This stack could serve other users as well, so I decided to release it after next EUC World release.

This just show there are benefits for 1 person development crew. Decision can be made fast and you not need to make a huge business analysis to change a decision.  

Thanks for correcting me @Seba 😁🙏. Now I look forward to hear if it fits into the V11 too. That could be where I jump to buy this. @EUniCycles.eu.

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2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

This just show there are benefits for 1 person development crew. Decision can be made fast and you not need to make a huge business analysis to change a decision.  

You are right :D For sure I wouldn't go into this not having such a device built into my own wheel.

3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Thanks for correcting me @Seba 😁🙏. Now I look forward to hear if it fits into the V11 too. That could be where I jump to buy this. @EUniCycles.eu.

Ryszard said that he will add improved devices that will be using 3G instead of 2G that may get phased-out in some areas soon. I have to ask him for IM wheels compatibility.

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6 hours ago, Struck said:

When you see Seba doing 90km straight you wonder what wheel is he driving? It'd be cool that this is also shown on the euc.world tour. 

And where's the fun in knowing instead of having to guess? 😜

There might be legal considerations to take into account there...25+km/h wheels aren't allowed in certain countries. Then again, doesn't matter what the wheel is if the graph is showing 40 or 50 km/h speeds. 😅 And yet again, no police reports have been filed based on EUC.W logs to my knowledge 😂

Certain features involve disclosing more information, and careful information disclosure involves limiting/carefully implementing certain features. Privacy, legality, anonymity, etc. is an ongoing discussion that's been present since the very start of the euc.world service. Luckily, @Seba has always listened to users' concerns and taken them into account, striking a nice balance.

Your suggestion would be a cool feature but it probably merits a discussion

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15 minutes ago, travsformation said:

And where's the fun in knowing instead of having to guess? 😜

That's right - it's fun trying to guess what wheel was used by this particular rider. Interestingly, it's not that hard as every wheel has it's distnict characteristics that is expressed in charts:

  1. Looking at the voltage and battery level charts it's easy to determine if it's a 58 V, 67V, 84V or 100 V wheel. For exampe 58V wheels are always Ninebots, while 100 V may be only Gotway at the moment (but soon this will also apply to Sherman).
  2. Looking at the speed and battery level over distance one can determine possible battery size.
  3. If there is no green "regenerative" area on current chart, we can assume that it's Gotway. Only this wheel doesn't report regenerative currents. Gotways also reports motor phase current instead of battery current, so seeing a current values above 40 A almost always means for Gotway.
  4. If you've determined a 67 V or 84 V wheel and additionally see that brown (EUC) speed curve is slightly shifted above color (GPS) speed curve, this means King Song :)

It can be really fun, and it also allows you to learn the specifics of different unicycles.

24 minutes ago, travsformation said:

And yet again, no police reports have been filed based on EUC.W logs to my knowledge 😂

That's right. According to Polish law (as euc.world is operating in Poland, it falls under Polish jurisdiction), all "illegal" things that reckless EUCists do are only contraventions and are not classified as crime. I can only be forced to disclose data in a case that is classified as a crime in Polish law. So as long as one won't kills anybody in an accident, won't cause someone's health disorder lasting more than seven days or cause a massive land traffic accident, there is no need to worry. Which doesn't mean I encourage traffic offences. Hell, no!

36 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Your suggestion would be a cool feature but it probably merits a discussion

Maybe another privacy option would be good, so every user could determine if he want to disclose wheel model or not. Just in the way now there's an option to show or hide speed or heart rate data.

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I still missing feature hide last 1 or 3 km from place where i finish tour.

This is why i keep my rides link only because i always forgot turn eucworld off (or tour) before i go home.

And i no feel good share place where is my bed on internet. 

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1 minute ago, DjPanJan said:

I still missing feature hide last 1 or 3 km from place where i finish tour.

This is why i keep my rides link only because i always forgot turn eucworld off (or tour) before i go home.

And i no feel good share place where is my bed on internet. 

Just a little bit of patience :) It's planned just after I finish and release next EUC World version. As this will be a major update, I will then focus on improving website features. Tours trimming and privacy masking is on the list.

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2 hours ago, Seba said:

That's right - it's fun trying to guess what wheel was used by this particular rider. Interestingly, it's not that hard as every wheel has it's distnict characteristics that is expressed in charts:

  1. Looking at the voltage and battery level charts it's easy to determine if it's a 58 V, 67V, 84V or 100 V wheel. For exampe 58V wheels are always Ninebots, while 100 V may be only Gotway at the moment (but soon this will also apply to Sherman).
  2. Looking at the speed and battery level over distance one can determine possible battery size.
  3. If there is no green "regenerative" area on current chart, we can assume that it's Gotway. Only this wheel doesn't report regenerative currents. Gotways also reports motor phase current instead of battery current, so seeing a current values above 40 A almost always means for Gotway.
  4. If you've determined a 67 V or 84 V wheel and additionally see that brown (EUC) speed curve is slightly shifted above color (GPS) speed curve, this means King Song :)

It can be really fun, and it also allows you to learn the specifics of different unicycles.

Yeah, I enjoy it too! Voltage, battery drain over time and regenerative current are big giveaways, and GPS speed < EUC speed too :roflmao:

Then again, battery drain can be deceiving, one never knows if the rider is using the standard or optimized algorithm :P :efee612b4b:

2 hours ago, Seba said:

That's right. According to Polish law (as euc.world is operating in Poland, it falls under Polish jurisdiction), all "illegal" things that reckless EUCists do are only contraventions and are not classified as crime. I can only be forced to disclose data in a case that is classified as a crime in Polish law. So as long as one won't kills anybody in an accident, won't cause someone's health disorder lasting more than seven days or cause a massive land traffic accident, there is no need to worry. Which doesn't mean I encourage traffic offences. Hell, no!

It's such a ridiculously unlikely situation in the first place for someone to request EUC World data for a criminal case...but still, glad we're under Polish law! (I guess Poland is to EUCs what Switzerland is to bankers) :roflmao:

2 hours ago, Seba said:

Maybe another privacy option would be good, so every user could determine if he want to disclose wheel model or not. Just in the way now there's an option to show or hide speed or heart rate data.

Yeah, that would be cool! Yet another item for your ever-growing to-do list! :whistling:

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1 hour ago, DjPanJan said:

I still missing feature hide last 1 or 3 km from place where i finish tour.

This is why i keep my rides link only because i always forgot turn eucworld off (or tour) before i go home.

And i no feel good share place where is my bed on internet. 

Are you worried that your EUC World profile picture will attract predators? :P :efefa6edcf:

On a serious note, a possible workaround while we wait for the next upgrade to the site is to always start and end your tours from the same place, a few blocks from your house, ideally somewhere that you forcibly have to pass by every time, on your way home. You'll probably forget the first few times (or 10 times, if you're like me), but after you do it enough times, it eventually ends up sticking in your mind as a habit. 

Another trick I use: I don't put on my right wrist guard (which has my Pebble and Flic on it) when I leave home. I always put it on, open EUC World, connect to Pebble, turn on in-helmet headset, etc., at the same bench, a few blocks from my house. It's my "start/end of tour bench". It helps that it's in front of some outdoor fitness machines for abs and glutes, so now that the weather is good, there are often some nice views so I don't even have to try to remember to stop there :whistling:

Either way, I'm not too worried about any harm coming my way from my EUC World data, I think the youngsters in the neighbourhood are more likely to cause me trouble...

But I understand and respect your privacy/safety concerns, they're perfectly valid and understandable :) 

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I don't know if this is the right place to post.
My question is about Euc World and Pebble.
I've bought a Pebble Time. To make long story short (I've just posted in past) when I connect Euc to my wheel (MSX, MCM5) sometimes the connection is lost.
On my Pebble the app freezes and on my phone (Oneplus 3T) when I open Euc World the connection is automatically restored (resetting all data).
I've tried connecting my gf phone (Samsun S8) to Pebble and my wheel and everything works properly.

Yesterday I was trying to find a solution online and I've found this site

https://dontkillmyapp.com/

Sounds like my phone is one of the worst for the background optimization and this could be the cause of all the issues.
Anyway it seems that in order to solve you should do as shown in this picture.

ss_oneplus6_setting_sleepstandby.jpg

Have you experienced issues with Oneplus? Have you solved the problem?
Thanks :)

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Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2020 at 5:53 PM, Seba said:

That's right - it's fun trying to guess what wheel was used by this particular rider. Interestingly, it's not that hard as every wheel has it's distnict characteristics that is expressed in charts:

  1. Looking at the voltage and battery level charts it's easy to determine if it's a 58 V, 67V, 84V or 100 V wheel. For exampe 58V wheels are always Ninebots, while 100 V may be only Gotway at the moment (but soon this will also apply to Sherman).
  2. Looking at the speed and battery level over distance one can determine possible battery size.
  3. If there is no green "regenerative" area on current chart, we can assume that it's Gotway. Only this wheel doesn't report regenerative currents. Gotways also reports motor phase current instead of battery current, so seeing a current values above 40 A almost always means for Gotway.
  4. If you've determined a 67 V or 84 V wheel and additionally see that brown (EUC) speed curve is slightly shifted above color (GPS) speed curve, this means King Song :)

It can be really fun, and it also allows you to learn the specifics of different unicycles.

[...]

Maybe another privacy option would be good, so every user could determine if he want to disclose wheel model or not. Just in the way now there's an option to show or hide speed or heart rate data.

That was quite an explanation for a game of detectives!! :laughbounce2:
Still, I do not know all the wheels out there.

I understand that sharing such information is of a privacy concern, but at the same time we are talking about an app that basically shares GPS coordinates.

Today we are doing a demonstration in Barcelona in favor of PMVs and AVAS is going to be there!!

Cheers!

Edited by Struck

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What are the proper alarm settings for the current and peak currents for a Segway Ninebot one E+?   I am not exactly sure how these numbers fluctuate during use.  I went out this morning for the first time using the app with the NB and almost immediately  got a current warning.  It was obviously set to low but I don't know where to set it for proper operation of the alarm.  Thanks!  Even with no speakers on the EUC my phone was playing the Harley sounds through the phone!  Great job!

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21 minutes ago, Paradoxedgewater said:

What are the proper alarm settings for the current and peak currents for a Segway Ninebot one E+?   I am not exactly sure how these numbers fluctuate during use.  I went out this morning for the first time using the app with the NB and almost immediately  got a current warning.  It was obviously set to low but I don't know where to set it for proper operation of the alarm.  Thanks!  Even with no speakers on the EUC my phone was playing the Harley sounds through the phone!  Great job!

I asked @Seba if he could make some suggestions setting from data for different wheels. But apparently this is a bigger job than I imagined. 

It is not of the table for it to happen. But it isn't sort of speak in next batch of improvement. 

Now @Seba aim to get a huge release ready for the end of the month. As of what makes the cut to this rather important and huge release I will let @Seba inform you about. 

I expect yo get my V11 within 2 weeks now. And hopefully I can help @Sebaenough to get basic V11 functions to work with EUC.WORLD. 

When @Seba gets hit own V11 (like to take some extra weeks) he plans to rebuild for better Inmotion support, just like he did for KS and GW. 

But more details from the king himself King @Seba as we get closer and ready for public release. 

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Hi @Seba! Such an incredible job on the app and online service from what I've seen, congrats.

I'll be learning to ride on a V10F soon and am equipped with a Garmin Forerunner 645 Music watch.
Quick into: I'm a solution engineer with 10+ years of experience as Android system and app development, usually hired to work on proof of concepts and prototyping.

I think I could build Garmin watch support, I'm confident about the feasibility for at least some of the features.

The project would have to respect its original license however or get a fresh new start without GPL ties, maybe in a cross-platform manner to support both Android and iOS simultaneously (like using Flutter).

I'd be curious to talk to you about all this, either in this forum or another venue.

In all cases I plan to find or build something to get heart rate + telemetry recordings for EUC riding as I'm very interested in the exercise and fitness aspect of it.

Looking forward to get in touch :efef62fc70:

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8 minutes ago, supercurio said:

In all cases I plan to find or build something to get heart rate + telemetry recordings for EUC riding as I'm very interested in the exercise and fitness aspect of it.

That's available with EUC World and Wear OS and Samsung Watches:

Darknessbot (ios) supports the apple watch. But i've no idea if it supports heart rate logging.

12 minutes ago, supercurio said:

I think I could build Garmin watch support, I'm confident about the feasibility for at least some of the features.

Here https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/14908-wheellog-android-app-with-garmin-connectiq-support/ is a wheelog version supporting garmin connectiq.

 

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Thanks @Chriull for all the good pointers!

Looking at the source code of the Wheellog Connect IQ app, I learned a few things about connecting the watch app to another app running on the paired phone through Connect IQ, I was thinking about another method relying on BLE instead (thus working only on fairly recent Garmin watches).
It looks super good, I'll read more hoping that WheelLog can post recordings to euc.world online service.

Since you mention Apple Watch, there's good chance it gives valid HR data. The Samsung wearable is data notoriously lacks in accuracy however, I wonder for the 2 last gens of the Garmin HR sensor.
In terms of usability, I imagine the touch screens are really good for ringing the bell and other actions.

I can't wait to try all this :)

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1 minute ago, supercurio said:

It looks super good, I'll read more hoping that WheelLog can post recordings to euc.world online service.

No - it can't. EUC World (seba) split off and wheellog is "distinct".

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3 minutes ago, Chriull said:

No - it can't. EUC World (seba) split off and wheellog is "distinct".

Thanks. So EUC World is not providing yet a web API to post activities like Strava does.

Maybe later @Seba - or the future hopes of monetisation are getting in the way of openness? (Understandable although unfortunate) 

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Posted (edited)

I have noticed if I try and text the link to my tour it does not get sent.  It shows on my phone as sent but the recipient does not get it.  I have tried sending to different people and nobody  gets the text.  This is the only link that does not get sent.  I have sent many links by texts and all but this one is sent.  Any ideas?

https://euc.world/tour/588484628253365

 

Edited by Paradoxedgewater

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10 hours ago, Seba said:

While EUC World was initially a WheelLog fork (and used this name for some time), it has been since rewritten and now doesn't contain GPLed code. Regardless, Kevin Cooper (original creator of WheelLog and copyright owner) granted me a separate license to use his code parts in non-GPL EUC World project. The last GPL version of EUC World is available on GitHub.

Ah it's super good to hear that there's no license issue regarding the project, even quite the contrary with the blessing from WheelLog's author.
Maybe the issue linked can be closed on Github with the same information. It's what tends to show up first when looking for EUC World app license or source and it is not an existing issue.

10 hours ago, Seba said:

Ask yourself a question and try to make a honest answer  Why DarknessBot and EUC World are now the most popular and valued EUC apps by the worldwide community, both being a closed-source apps? And why WheelLog, a GPL project, lags behind two of these in terms of support and features, even if it was one of first and most recognized EUC apps?

You used the words "monetisation" and "unfortunate". Well... I think it's "unfortunate" to expect someone to spend a lot of expertise, time and money to maintain and develop something that others will use for free, without any support for developer. This is a niche project, just as niche our EUCs are. They are not open platforms and all EUC manufacturers tries to protect their intelectual properties. We all know their OEM apps... King Song would never disclose some technical details of their communication stack and firmware server access to add KS support to open-source app. 

And now about "monetisation". EUC World is already a "monetised" project, as it's financed from money donated by its users. Let's make it clear - without this "monetisation" EUC World would be already dead. Welcome to real world - there is no such thing as a free lunch. I have to pay for everything that allows me to maintain and develop EUC World project. Fiber optic, server hardware, storage, maintenance costs, domain, certificates, development machine, various tools, phones and smartwatches for app testing & developing. Sometimes I have to buy EUC just to add support for this wheel for other users. No one will lend me a wheel at the same time accepting that it may get bricked during my work. I have to bear this risk and take the cost on me in case of such situation.

Ah sorry I think there has been a misunderstanding on my use of word monetisation here, it was probably unclear.

As an indy developer of apps I've been in a situation multiple times where it was difficult to strike the right balance between:

  • openness within an ecosystem - as making an effort to make an app or service usable via APIs, either apps or online where third party might use them in unanticipated ways
  • free features versus paid features
  • open source or closed - but then which license, or only opening APIs, or making some libraries open source only
  • lastly, how much effort to protect against reverse-engineering and piracy, either to avoid copies or protect a business model.

Then when working on commercial projects it's the same but at a different scale.

That's why I started my message with congratulations because both the effort to make then run EUC World.
To reach broad compatibility, reliability and wide adoption (from what I gather - still waiting for my wheel to arrive) is an impressive success.

Then yeah monetisation (or funding) is a crucial part of making a project grow and last, I didn't mean it as a dirty word.
I'm glad you can operate it from donations for now despite the significant costs you mention. Compatibility with all wheels, as they're rising in price and across firmware version must be super hard.
Do you think that so far, all OEMs try to keep users on their own app to increase brand loyalty?
Hopefully it'll be possible to bring multiple revenue streams to reduce risk.

10 hours ago, Seba said:

I plan to add open APIs to both EUC World app (this will include HTTP API that could be used in your Garmin watch app project) and EUC World online service.

Excellent news! Have you started prototyping something or had requests to see what an API would look like?

I mentioned a Garmin watch app but I'm especially interested by exploring the fitness aspect of EUC riding.
Also: health and safety: Like are overlean crashes often linked to poor sleep? What about stress, excitement or fatigue? - This could be analysed with heart rate data and heart rate variability.
Using all wheel + health data wisely could lead to timely "careful" reminders, lower speed limits when fatigued. There's a lot to do.

As Strava user for running & cycling I'd like to also sync EUC rides to Strava and Garmin Connect since the later shows additional fields.

Despite being experienced with a bunch of the techs involved I'm just starting in the field of EUC and would be happy to receive some guidance on what would be most useful to explore from you @Seba and the community.
Or maybe I can get involved and help in another way.

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