Jump to content

Airless tires


Steef Klonoa

Recommended Posts

Has anyone looked into airless tires for EUC's? Would be great not having to worry about flat tires. I have seen airless tires on bicycles before, so if they have them in the right size, they could fit on an EUC. I have heard the ride is a bit bumpier though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Smoother said:

No. A pneumatic tyre uses the pressure of the air in the whole wheel to cushion shocks.  An airless tyre can only use the air replacement substance in immediate proximity to the ground.  Not a good idea.

Airless tyres are a new technology along with TUBELESS tyres ...airless tyres are hollow inside or "honeycomb" or foam sponge filled inside ...solid airless tyres are a pain in the arse because every bump vibrates the PEV & it falls to pieces all over the roads/footpaths, like the emicro ONE X1 & X2, ggrrr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed! I was searching for airless tire topics on this forum recently but only found people saying "Yeah that would be cool".

I would imagine that the benefits of less frequent tire changes and zero risk of being stranded with a flat would outweigh the heavier tire and potentially less smooth ride. Plus there's just a cool factor associated with airless tires. 

Not sure if I like the idea of an airless tire with all the exposed holes like this: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/16inch-bike-airless-tire_60775150938.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.16.17d6476du2fYIr - small rocks could get lodged in there and make for an uneven ride, but maybe something more along the lines of this: https://tannusamerica.com/collections/mountain/products/tannus-armour - basically a piece of rubber that sits between the tire and tube to protect against punctures.

Would be great to hear what others think!

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These kinds of tires have been around for a while, they're extremely common in the shared bikes in China and you even sort of have then in the form of runflats on cars.

The harsh ride isn't worth it in my opinion.  It really doesn't take that much time to keep your tires inflated and flats have been extremely rare for me.  The harsh ride is very noticeable and it's something that your knees will feel every day.  I switched out the runflats on my car first chance I had and despite the fact that it seems like a good idea on paper, I've yet to meet anyone who likes their runflats.  They always just end up being expensive with a harsh ride and never used.

Edited by mythe00
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I have solid airless tires on my e-scooter, and can understand the rough ride, however, I'm very interested in the type of tire shown in the Michelin Tire's video that @Jon Stern shared. That looks promising for bringing something to the table that might not be a solution to the harshness. That pattern looks to be pretty shock absorbent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried airless tyres on a solowheel a few years ago.  Tried a few options with varying hardness, all gave a terrible ride - one was ok for travelling in a straight line but as soon as I tried cornering, nearly came off.  They way they deflect is very different than on pneumatic tyres and not ideal for an EUC.  Also quite heavy!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Why pneumatic tires dominate the world of tires is an old question. Given how large the tire market is, we can safely assume that large amounts of money have been dedicated in attempts to develop more reliable tires over the past hundred-or-so years. The answer seems to be consistent: airless tires are worse under most circumstances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mono said:

Why pneumatic tires dominate the world of tires is an old question. Given how large the tire market is, we can safely assume that large amounts of money have been dedicated in attempts to develop more reliable tires over the past hundred-or-so years. The answer seems to be consistent: airless tires are worse under most circumstances.

That assumes no progress on materials science, no improvements in computer-aided design and simulation, and no disruptive manufacturing technology (like 3D printing).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

That assumes no progress on materials science, no improvements in computer-aided design and simulation, and no disruptive manufacturing technology (like 3D printing).

This rather assumes that all possible technological progress we could think of has been taken into account also by major tire research and development. Given the amount of money spent in tire development this is IMHO not a very bold assumption. Thinking one can compete in understanding and innovating a product dealt with by thousands of professional researchers in a billion dollar market means most likely to have become a victim of the celebrated Dunning-Kruger effect.

Edited by Mono
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Mono said:

This rather assumes that all possible technological progress we could think of has been taken into account also by major tire research and development. Given the amount of money spent in tire development this is IMHO not a very bold assumption. Thinking one can compete in understanding and innovating a product dealt with by thousands of professional researchers in a billion dollar market means most likely to have become a victim of the celebrated Dunning-Kruger effect.

Did you notice that much of the research on airless tires is being carried out by Michelin, the world's largest tire company?

They've been working on this for years, and presumably have been spending millions of Euros doing so. They clearly see this as worthwhile investment, and I would assume they see it as being either disruptive or additive to their business.

Maybe they're wrong, but I would tend to assume that one of the world's greatest authorities on tires sees potential benefits of the technology.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jon SternI assume Michelin is right, by default. Research means keep on trying and keep on failing most of the time. Research on airless tires has not been done for years but for decades, I am sure. As a market leader it can make perfectly sense to explore possibilities that are not likely to succeed even for a very long time. The interesting question is how much of their total research budget goes into this particular topic. If it is more than 25%, I would indeed become cautiously more optimistic about a possible future of airless tires :P

I don't oppose research on airless tires at all. I am just saying that (i) it seems to be very difficult to come up with a competitive airless tire and (ii) at this point in time airless tires are the inferior choice in most applications.

From a practical perspective, I think pneumatic tires can be extremely puncture-proof (I am sure Michelin has done a lot of research on that too). If a state-of-the-art puncture-proof tire would be available in the desired dimensions and tread for EUCs, I really wouldn't worry about airless tires at all. Bicycle state-of-the-art technology has moved to tubeless tires already some time ago and this move would be even simpler to do for EUCs. The main obstacle for us to get the most reliable tire is IMHO market size of the tire dimension we need.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've tried airless throughout the years and they were all awful, but there is one airless tire that stands head above all the rest. My local bike shop had these and I really liked them, that is, they are about as harsh and grippy as the Continental (?) Gatorskins I used to have. While all the rest are awful, these are very good, and are transparent in use. I didn't buy them, but I was tempted to. I get a lot of flats, mostly from nails and screws left on the road.

https://tannusamerica.com

They are $70 each, and from what I've read do require care and muscle to get onto your bicycle. In contrast, I can buy a two pack of Continentals for $25 and 2 innertubes for $10, and can get them on my bike pretty quickly.

For an EUC, for sure I would buy these airless tires. However, Slime is also a semi-viable option; with Slime you get a puncture, lose a lot of air, but the tire does seal up although now it requires a pump.

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/6/2019 at 1:17 AM, Jon Stern said:

That assumes no progress on materials science, no improvements in computer-aided design and simulation, and no disruptive manufacturing technology (like 3D printing).

There are success stories ...the Emicro CONDOR 3 electric scooter uses an 8 inch EVO foam filled core inside its front wheel only ...and it is very efficient & robust ...swiss design ...won't save anyone from flying through the air like a giant meat-filled balloon after hitting anything 3/4 of an inch high though, SPLAT !! owwww

micro are now producing a 2 seater electric car "microlino" ...BUT the company has the usual history of omitting to publish actual specifications for their electric products ...apparently the vast herds of the public don't need to know ...obviously this innovative measure cuts down on the amount of complaints.

 

l recently saw a new stolid rubber front wheel drive e-scooter boasting an air-filled back tyre for a smoother ride ...the logic of trailing around a cushioned puncture-magnet behind the e-scooter escapes me :ph34r:

Edited by stephenbadger
2 cents worth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...