Gotway Nikola EUC.NYC Post-Demo Impressions

[Nils]

5 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Seems like the masses like the 16X 10:1 vs the Nikola at least that are the sales numbers I'm hearing from the grapevine.

You're referring to 16X pre-orders assumedly then?

5 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

 It's all a matter of appealing to the masses.  As a manufacture I would try to make something that is appealing to most.  Then I would get the most sales.  Otherwise I won't be in business long.  At this point it seems like the Nikola is a total failure as only a few folks are buying it.  

At the meet up I couldn't help but noticed most of the folks that showed up had a KS18L/XL.  I think I counted 8 of them. 

Well the Nikola is just now shipping, so I would be surprised to see a lot of these. The wheel in comparison here would be the MSX I think, but a low number for MSX in comparison to the KS18* would not necessarily say much about the impact of Nikola's design.

[Nils]

Just now, meepmeepmayer said:

I'd say it's not so much the looks but the sheer (unnecessary over)size of it. The proportions are just strange. What sense does that ultra wide top handle (not the scorpion one) make?

Well I won't argue against those concerns, seems weird to me as well. I'm not that concerned about the size itself (I'm a somewhat taller guy), but yes, why have the wheel be bigger than it need to be? The handle width seems like a miss, no-one wants to use both hands to lift their wheels. I've big hands, so I'm holding out hope that I'll still be able to lift it one handled (I'll report back later on this..).

[Marty Backe]

Just now, Nils said:

Well I won't argue against those concerns, seems weird to me as well. I'm not that concerned about the size itself (I'm a somewhat taller guy), but yes, why have the wheel be bigger than it need to be? The handle width seems like a miss, no-one wants to use both hands to lift their wheels. I've big hands, so I'm holding out hope that I'll still be able to lift it one handled (I'll report back later on this..).

I suspect/hope that lifting the Nikola will be like lifting the MCM5. The MCM5 handle is only open on one side, so you can't wrap your fingers around the handle. Yet it's easy to lift the MCM5.

[Darrell Wesh]

13 minutes ago, Nils said:

Well I won't argue against those concerns, seems weird to me as well. I'm not that concerned about the size itself (I'm a somewhat taller guy), but yes, why have the wheel be bigger than it need to be? The handle width seems like a miss, no-one wants to use both hands to lift their wheels. I've big hands, so I'm holding out hope that I'll still be able to lift it one handled (I'll report back later on this..).

@meepmeepmayer I believe the wide top is so you can sit on it. You can’t sit on the v10. Good design element by Gotway

[eddiemoy]

17 minutes ago, Nils said:

Well I won't argue against those concerns, seems weird to me as well. I'm not that concerned about the size itself (I'm a somewhat taller guy), but yes, why have the wheel be bigger than it need to be? The handle width seems like a miss, no-one wants to use both hands to lift their wheels. I've big hands, so I'm holding out hope that I'll still be able to lift it one handled (I'll report back later on this..).

plenty of folks mention it was lighter than it looks and they were lifting it one handed to the side.  thought it is a little bit awkward.  

23 minutes ago, Nils said:

You're referring to 16X pre-orders assumedly then?

Well the Nikola is just now shipping, so I would be surprised to see a lot of these. The wheel in comparison here would be the MSX I think, but a low number for MSX in comparison to the KS18* would not necessarily say much about the impact of Nikola's design.

Yes, I'm referring to the preorders, no one is really preodering the Nikola.  

Yes, I agree it is just a sample data i'm looking at, but usually it is correct.  Doesn't mean that it can't be selling like gangbusters elsewhere.  gangbusters is relative.  some think selling 10 is gangbusters.  LOL.  I can't imagine KS or GW selling more than 2000 wheels a year.  

[Nils]

7 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

@meepmeepmayer I believe the wide top is so you can sit on it. You can’t sit on the v10. Good design element by Gotway

If so, I guess that could explain the extra height as well.

[meepmeepmayer]

I don't believe any manufacturer specifically designs wheels for sitting. A foam seat as an afterthought, at best.

I think they just needed the width for the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge heatsink for the board on top and the related board space cavern.

The design process must have gone like this:

1. Tire size
2. Board on top
3. "Hey, let's be really sure our new board can't overheat." "Sure, just give it a lot of space and a big heatsink!"
4. "It would look strange if the top is so much thinner than the rest of the wheel..."

That explains 99% why the wheels looks as it does in my eyes. No seat theory needed

(Pictures by EcoDrift)

Edited April 21, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't believe any manufacturer specifically designs wheels for sitting. A foam seat as an afterthought, at best.

I think they just needed the width for the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge heatsink for the board on top and the related board space cavern.

The design process must have gone like this:

1. Tire size
2. Board on top
3. "Hey, let's be really sure our new board can't overheat." "Sure, just give it a lot of space and a big heatsink!"
4. "It would look strange if the top is so much thinner than the rest of the wheel..."

That explains 99% why the wheels looks as it does in my eyes. No seat theory needed

(Pictures by EcoDrift)

I'm still saddened by the lost opportunity to make a 2400wh version. All that wasted empty space 

[meepmeepmayer]

50 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm still saddened by the lost opportunity to make a 2400wh version. All that wasted empty space 

You misspelled 3200 Two 800Wh battery packs each side. That would be a dream wheel.

[erk1024]

The exposed wires in the handle seems like poor engineering to me. Very easy to put stress on those wires while trying to pick up the wheel. And if you are designing the shells from scratch, why not put the wires INSIDE the shell? Weird.

Edited April 21, 2019 by erk1024
added photo

[houseofjob]

From this weekend's EUC.NYC demo:

 

21 hours ago, erk1024 said:

The exposed wires in the handle seems like poor engineering to me. Very easy to put stress on those wires while trying to pick up the wheel. And if you are designing the shells from scratch, why not put the wires INSIDE the shell? Weird.

AFAIK, that's an early ecodrift.ru demo Nikola unit, not production FWIW.

Didn't look on the underside of the handle on the production EUC.NYC demo unit, unfortunately 

 

22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't believe any manufacturer specifically designs wheels for sitting. A foam seat as an afterthought, at best.

OG SBU v1-3 and KS18 tall series! 

 

22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I think they just needed the width for the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge heatsink for the board on top and the related board space cavern.

The design process must have gone like this:

1. Tire size
2. Board on top
3. "Hey, let's be really sure our new board can't overheat." "Sure, just give it a lot of space and a big heatsink!"
4. "It would look strange if the top is so much thinner than the rest of the wheel..."

That explains 99% why the wheels looks as it does in my eyes. No seat theory needed

Good point, didn't think of that.

Also, this design let them recycle the 84V "800"Wh packs from the 84V MSV3/Monster/MSX/ACM, so they don't have to go making another custom BMS.

 

23 hours ago, Nils said:

The handle width seems like a miss, no-one wants to use both hands to lift their wheels. I've big hands, so I'm holding out hope that I'll still be able to lift it one handled (I'll report back later on this..).

23 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I suspect/hope that lifting the Nikola will be like lifting the MCM5. The MCM5 handle is only open on one side, so you can't wrap your fingers around the handle. Yet it's easy to lift the MCM5.

I'm used to lifting my former MCM5, so lifting the Nikola just felt like a version of that with more weight, and the thickness orients it a further away from the body.

Because there is a slight ridge to the Nikola handle, as seen in the ecodrift pic @erk1024 posted, I don't really feel it all that inadequate to lift with one hand, combined with the fact that the Nikola felt lighter in-hand than previously assumed pre-demo. FWIW, in general, Gotway seems to be making their current wheel line lighter than their competitor's counterparts, ala how the MSuperX is probably the lightest 1600Wh wheel on the market.

 

[houseofjob]

On 4/21/2019 at 11:50 AM, Nils said:

In general there seems to be a lot of negativity regarding the Nikola's appearance, the amount of which surprised me a bit . While tastes certainly differ, I consider it a good thing that Gotway now seems to focus more on the aesthetics, starting with this wheel. They've had the performance/range thing going for them for some time, but other manufacturers are now catching up in that department, while having a history of offering (IMO) better looking wheels with better build quality. I hope that Gotway also as a part of this apparent shift also up their build quality and attention to details as well.

Yes, I forgot to note, that, while I probably won't be purchasing a Nikola, I'm excited that Gotway is finally able to deliver a sleeker, more streamlined wheel design package here finally!

Very exciting for future Gotway models ahead IMHO!

Edited April 22, 2019 by houseofjob

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

FWIW, in general, Gotway seems to be making their current wheel line lighter than their competitor's counterparts, ala how the MSuperX is probably the lightest 1600Wh wheel on the market.

Yea, wheels are getting heavier for absolutely no good reason. The msuper had the luck of being an old design.

ACM <19kg... meanwhile 16X 23.5kg, Nikola 24.5kg. Same amount of battery cells, same motor size. How the f**k do they even add 5 extra kg there? I couldn't do it if I had to. Is there a good reason the motors are heavier?

Edited April 22, 2019 by meepmeepmayer
numbers