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Faceplant - KS14s - apprx. just below 20 kph.


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Guest PogArt Artur
1 hour ago, mkosterlund said:

A few days ago I had this annoying experience. There's not much data - Darknessbot wasn't connected.

Going for a quick snack run to the local store - or so I thought.
Wearing regular jeans, jacket, wrist + knee guards and non-fullface helmet.

On my KS14s voice prompts are enabled, beep alarm at 29 kph. Battery was somewhere between 60 and 70 pct - It's a 680 Wh configuration.
I had no alarms, prompts or tiltback. My best guess is speed was just below 20 kph.

Suddenly there was a full forward drop of pedals, I managed to raise my arms and turn my head (by instinct only) - hit the ground instantaneously.
Knee and wrist guards made me slide between one and two meters.

Impact on wrist + knee guards, Left hip and left elbow. Fortunately helmet / head / face did not hit the ground.
In short - I'm ok - Noted, Elbow impact does indeed go through to the shoulder.

The wheel rotated / bumped around the Y axis and landed in a bush.
On wheel pickup It was powered on and seemed functioning.
I rode the wheel home, slowly for about 1 km.

So what happened?, I guess I will never know for sure. There was a small pothole, I'm not certain I hit it.

I recently added new XL pedals to the wheel, new scrapes are identifiable on the pedals fronts, more on the left - matched the side where I'm most bruised - and consistent with my observation of pedal forward drop.

It's been three days now and I have come to the following decision,

1. KS14s will go to service / maintenance to make sure it's internally visually ok - had it going in for a battery checkup under warranty anyways.
I will not ride the wheel until this is done.

2. I will add elbow protection to my current gear.

3. I will add a jacket with D30 shoulder protection or similar and a full face helmet, before I upgrade to a larger wheel.
 - This decision was actually already made. I will not upgrade before the 16X has been released I think :-) - considering 16X or TEsla or 18XL atm.

Below you will find pictures of,
Wheel pedals,
Clothes
Me / Scrapes

In short gear up, keep riding - and take care.
 

bukser-og-jakke.JPG

ks14s-pedals.JPG

scrapes.JPG

Thanks for share, I wish you best for sorting things out.

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While it might have been a pothole, it might also have been a small twig or stick. The KS14S has fender coverage that, in my opinion, is far too low and is prone to being fouled (a great argument for tires with minimal tread). It doesn't take much to completely jam the wheel, but the very act of crashing unjams the wheel.

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34 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

 the very act of crashing unjams the wheel.

Smack !!! bang!!  (Wheel tumbles in the weeds)

- “Did you just crash!?” 

          - “Yeah, ..... I was unjamming my wheel. “ 

:D

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Sorry to ear I hope you recovery will come fast.. I have seen this before and is because the 14” is not the right wheel for your hight and weight.. has I can see in the picture you should get at least a strong motor 16” .. 18 is even better. 

Sometime save money is not the right thing to do 

:-)

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I am not convinced this is a weight/wheelsize issue. My V5F has around 60 miles on it now, mostly off road and through wooded areas. I have also negotiated 'sleeping policeman' road bumps with a sharp rise to around 6cm high at the crest. I have had zero issues or protest from the wheel and I am 90kg/6'1". My wooded runs were done at 13mph (15mph max available for the wheel) over twigs, branches, tree roots, ruts and dips. Dont forget this is an 'old tech' wheel with a 500w motor and 320wh battery. Not a single issue shown in terms of lack of power.

A total shutdown would suggest something more sinister. I am no expert, I can only report on what my wheel can (and does) do without any flailing whatsoever.

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5 hours ago, Smoother said:

I'm sorry for your accident, and that you did not consider elbow protection (until now).

I cannot understand what caused your wheel to fail.  I have only one frame of reference and that is what happened to my 16S, Which would also cause a sudden face plant.

One or more of my Hall Effect wires had a break in it where/near where it entered the control board.  Any bump would shake the wires and cause a temporary break in communication which instantly killed the motor.  It was usually followed by regular beeps and four red lights per side.  These went away once the power was cycled off and on.

Here is how I found and confirmed the problem. 

My dealer in Poland soldered the wires directly to the board, eliminating the white plastic fitting (not a plug).  It's been rock solid ever since.

Hopefully something like this is your problem.  There is nothing worse than an un diagnosed EUC face plant bug.

Thanks for the input - I had no beeps and no red lights, howeer will have repair shop check for loose connections / broken wires.

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A height or weight issue - wheel too small? I don't know.

I'm 70 kg / 155 lbs and 188 eg. apprx 6 foot 2

KS specs the wheel to max load 100 Kg and

Motor 800w nominal and peak 3000w from: https://www.kingsong-europe.com/en/unicycles/73-ks-14s.html

 

Regarding weight I should be good I guess?

Height, if this was an overlean I see my height might have had smth. to do with the balance, I don't think it was.

I have +500 Km's om the wheel, no problems, until this. 

 

I was going straight a fair point below max speed, also no wind.

Anyone else with a KS14s with input on wheel size and me? I want to hear :-)

@Marty Backe I believe you have one? :-)

I went back to the crash sight today - below you will find a few picture of the potential pothole, fairly wide and not that deep... may and may not have been the reason...

 

pothold.JPG

pothole2.JPG

Edited by mkosterlund
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4 hours ago, Moreno Gianola said:

Sorry to ear I hope you recovery will come fast.. I have seen this before and is because the 14” is not the right wheel for your hight and weight.. has I can see in the picture you should get at least a strong motor 16” .. 18 is even better. 

Sometime save money is not the right thing to do 

:-)

Thanks, My recovery will be ok - since I'm not using the wheel today I got to do a 10 km run - I will be fine :-)

See my latest post below for comments on wheel size :-)

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31 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I am not convinced this is a weight/wheelsize issue. My V5F has around 60 miles on it now, mostly off road and through wooded areas. I have also negotiated 'sleeping policeman' road bumps with a sharp rise to around 6cm high at the crest. I have had zero issues or protest from the wheel and I am 90kg/6'1". My wooded runs were done at 13mph (15mph max available for the wheel) over twigs, branches, tree roots, ruts and dips. Dont forget this is an 'old tech' wheel with a 500w motor and 320wh battery. Not a single issue shown in terms of lack of power.

A total shutdown would suggest something more sinister. I am no expert, I can only report on what my wheel can (and does) do without any flailing whatsoever.

WOW!!!!   ..............WOW!!!!!   :shock2:

I am 100kg and wish they made more powerful wheels that were not so easy to overpower. 

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12 minutes ago, mkosterlund said:

 

pothold.JPG

pothole2.JPG

That kinda looks like @Rehab1 pothole. 

1) 12.5 mph  - 2/3 of top speed. 

2) 14” wheel

3) 70 kg 

4) perfect shape pothole 

The numbers might add up. Too close for me to call. 

Edited by RockyTop
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After seeing the pics of the pothole I have no doubt whatsoever that my V5F would have sailed through it. That said, I would have seen it in advance and bent my legs in preparation. 30 years of riding motorbikes makes me scan the road like a hawk.

Did you see it?

I have yet to come across anything that has caused my wheel to cut out or protest in any way. I appreciate I am a new rider, but I have recently deliberately (in the woods) tried to make my wheel play up so I know it's limitations. It hasn't yet. Which is a pain in one way, but a show of its abilities in another.

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1 minute ago, Planemo said:

After seeing the pics of the pothole I have no doubt whatsoever that my V5F would have sailed through it. That said, I would have seen it in advance and bent my legs in preparation. 30 years of riding motorbikes makes me scan the road like a hawk.

Did you see it?

I have yet to come across anything that has caused my wheel to cut out or protest in any way. I appreciate I am a new rider, but I have recently deliberately (in the woods) tried to make my wheel play up so I know it's limitations. It hasn't yet. Which is a pain in one way, but a show of its abilities in another.

I have seen this pothole before, I think I have hit worse ground - however I did not see it on the day of the crash, It hid in the shadow of a tree.

It didn't feel as if I hit it - however I might have, at a bad angel - will never know...

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Wow, this could have ended worse. Thanks for giving me one more argument to convince myself to wear elbow guards.

I'm also on the @Smoother side, this sounds more like a hardware problem than overleaning the wheel. After all, 20kph is far away from the top speed, and some emergency power spike should easily have prevented any overlean from this tiny non-pothole at 20kph. A loose connection somewhere sounds more plausible to me. In doubt, replace the board and motor or (as this will cost a lot) just give up on the wheel. Sad but the only way to be sure:mellow:

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If it was in the shadow of a tree then chances are the hole isnt that bad. I can only go by your pics which suggest it isnt. Give yourself some credit - if it was an obvious hole I am sure you would have seen it.

This is a screen grab from a video I will be putting up tomorrow. Yes, she weighs less than I do but I did the same bump at around 10mph and the wheel sailed over it. I would estimate that the gradient/height of this bump is no less than your pothole. When I did it, the wheel left contact with the road so it had quite an effect. Again though, the wheel was totally composed throughout.

 

Edited by Planemo
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17 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Although a smallish pothole like that could throw you off the wheel if you weren't expecting it, your symptoms sound more like a wheel failure. If it was from the pothole, the wheel would not have dipped - you just would have been thrown off the pedals.

A severe pedal dip (and damage to front of the pedals) makes me think that the wheel lost balance. I suppose it could have occurred because of the relative low battery and the pothole.

You may be surprised at the amount of excessive current that the motor can demand from a relatively small bump. I wear a Pebble watch on most of my rides. There is a current alarm that triggers whenever >90-amps is consumed by the wheel. Very often, when I hit a bump or small hole at a fast speed, my wrist will buzz from the alarm. By using the Pebble watch & WheelLog I've learned where the wheels consume the spikes of power. Now, when I'm cruising and I seen that I'me about to go over something that will probably cause a surge in current, I briefly slow down for the bump.

So it's possible that your wheel wasn't able to generate the necessary current, and it momentarily cutout.

Thanks for the feedbackup - I have a feeling I need to get my wheel checked...

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1 hour ago, mkosterlund said:

A height or weight issue - wheel too small? I don't know.

I'm 70 kg / 155 lbs and 188 eg. apprx 6 foot 2

KS specs the wheel to max load 100 Kg and

Motor 800w nominal and peak 3000w from: https://www.kingsong-europe.com/en/unicycles/73-ks-14s.html

 

Regarding weight I should be good I guess?

Height, if this was an overlean I see my height might have had smth. to do with the balance, I don't think it was.

I have +500 Km's om the wheel, no problems, until this. 

 

I was going straight a fair point below max speed, also no wind.

Anyone else with a KS14s with input on wheel size and me? I want to hear :-)

@Marty Backe I believe you have one? :-)

I went back to the crash sight today - below you will find a few picture of the potential pothole, fairly wide and not that deep... may and may not have been the reason...

 

pothold.JPG

pothole2.JPG

Even if you did hit that dip ( and I don't think you did, because you would have remembered) as @Planemo said, and given the details of speed, weight, motor, battery, slope, experience,etc, this was no over lean either, for one major reason...you weren't leaning (or you would have mentioned it).  The 14s is a strong little wheel. My 14c had the same motor (800W) and the only thing weak about that wheel was the 340Wh battery; but when full-ish it was plenty strong enough. You had 60% of 640Wh  so practically what I was happy with with 90% of a 340W.  No. Something weird happened, unless you aren't telling us something. Which I don't believe is the case.

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1 minute ago, Smoother said:

Even if you did hit that dip ( and I don't think you did, because you would have remembered) as @Planemo said, and given the details of speed, weight, motor, battery, slope, experience,etc, this was no over lean either, for one major reason...you weren't leaning (or you would have mentioned it).  The 14s is a strong little wheel. My 14c had the same motor (800W) and the only thing weak about that wheel was the 340Wh battery; but when full-ish it was plenty strong enough. You had 60% of 640Wh  so practically what I was happy with with 90% of a 340W.  No. Something weird happened, unless you aren't telling us something. Which I don't believe is the case.

Yeah, my gut feeling too :-/ - I'm waiting for1radwerkstadt to confirm shipping address - then they will have the wheel to check on it...

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1 hour ago, mkosterlund said:

Thanks for the feedbackup - I have a feeling I need to get my wheel checked...

Unfortunately, there's not much that can be done. Doesn't sound like you work on your own wheels, but all that can be done is to inspect the cables and look for any obvious visual problems on the circuit board. You could do that yourself to save time and money.

It's not like a car where the engine can be torn down and rebuilt. Our wheels just have a motor, control board, battery and some interconnecting wires.

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19 hours ago, mkosterlund said:

I have a feeling I need to get my wheel checked...

Get your wheel checked then sell it and get yourself either a KS16X, MSX or KS18XL and a pair of wrist guards while you're at it.

Ride safe buddy!

Edited by Dave U
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20 hours ago, mkosterlund said:

A height or weight issue - wheel too small? I don't know.

I'm 70 kg / 155 lbs and 188 eg. apprx 6 foot 2

KS specs the wheel to max load 100 Kg and

Motor 800w nominal and peak 3000w from: https://www.kingsong-europe.com/en/unicycles/73-ks-14s.html

 

Regarding weight I should be good I guess?

Height, if this was an overlean I see my height might have had smth. to do with the balance, I don't think it was.

I have +500 Km's om the wheel, no problems, until this. 

 

I was going straight a fair point below max speed, also no wind.

Anyone else with a KS14s with input on wheel size and me? I want to hear :-)

@Marty Backe I believe you have one? :-)

I went back to the crash sight today - below you will find a few picture of the potential pothole, fairly wide and not that deep... may and may not have been the reason...

 

pothold.JPG

pothole2.JPG

Since you are on s fairly small wheel, what springs to my mind is you could have hit it in an angle. Any loose sand or gravel can then make wheel slide. It happen to me in a gravel pothole with little water. So it got sandy and muddy.

At that time I were riding my Inmotion V8, a 16"wheel. But it felt it was all over the place. And of course I had only a 200-300ish Km experience at the time. 

On my KS18L I hardly notice this anymore.....unless I hit a big curb...see my crash history for more "fun".

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