Bicycle helmet suitable or not? ... plus a few : ) other questions

[rinzler]

You know, I'm really starting to think I didn't think this whole EUC malarkey through properly...

I never worried about things on my escooter or kickscooter. Granted I have had a few falls and a couple of run offs. (PSA - kick scooter pu wheels in the wet is like being on ice)

Anyway - I realise the reason euc riding has a slower update - the price of admission is high. Think about it; I'm already over $1300 down without even taking delivery of anything! It took me a number of years renting snowboarding equipment before I decided to take the plunge... anyway - this is off topic already!

So, as per title. I have a decent Kask made dhb cycle helmet (https://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-aeron-road-helmet/). It's not the coolest but I am now starting to wear it regularly when cycling (even short journeys). A lot of you guys use skateboard, mtb, or motorcycle helmets. Is a 'measily' bicycle helmet going to be enough?

As for the other kit, I've plumped for:

• Demon Flexmaster double sided wristguards (I feel lucky to have not broken my wrists snowboarding over the years even with my dakine wristguards) so this is a no-brainer
• Demon Flex Force X2 D30 top (thttps://demonsnow.com/store/MTB-BMX/MTB-BMX-Upper-Lower Body/DS 1650 Flex Force Pro top V2) - the plan is a fitted t-shirt, this on top and then my normal clothes. Get to destination, whip the armour off.
• POC Joint VPD 2.0 knee pads (stolen most of the research from this dude: https://esk8.nl/t/defensive-measures-protective-gear/314) - I've read the straps cut into the back of your knees. There is an 'air' version but both don't have quick ways to take them off (must come over the feet).
• Gloves - ??? I've seen too many pictures of cut-up hands and I'm just not good with that stuff since my mutant healing powers have slowed in older age and I just can't take that sh1t. I need to not get road rash but also to not look like I seemed to have forgotten my motorbike.
• Hi-tops - check! Bashed ankles is something I am familiar with from scooters!

My aim is to wear my normal 'cool' or 'work' clothes.  To look as regular as I can bar the gloves and helmet. Equally though I have accepted that it seems a few bad falls are par for the course with this hobby. I want to be able to get up without feeling like I've just been run over*

Anybody got direct experience with the knee pad, gloves and armour?

Why does this hobby seem inherently more dangerous than snowboarding or scooting!?! Why did I start this journey!?!

 

 

*I plan to ride almost exclusively on the pavement and bicycle lanes - another reason to not appear to terrorise pedestrians.

 

[LanghamP]

I think having flat-bottomed rubber sneakers with ankle coverage is the most important factor. Something like the Converse All Stars. If you can get the most agility possible during a crash, then that buys you time, and time buys you options. With time you can choose to slide, or roll, or even try to hop enough times to not even fall.

Perversely, protective equipment makes it more likely you'll hit the ground, through less agility and through risk compensation (you use the extra safety margin to go faster). However, if you're treating your 18 incher as a 26 mph scooter, then you have no choice; full-face helmet, gloves, and all that jazz.

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by LanghamP

[esaj]

Stating the obvious: Bicycle helmet is far better than nothing, although of course it won't offer the same protection as a full-face motorcycle helmet or similar. What is "enough" varies from person to person, I ride with a full-face helmet, Demon Flexmeters, cheap-ass knee- and elbow-pads and jungle combat boots.

[RockyTop]

I do not put much faith in the Styrofoam hats that only cover your bold spot. You need a minimum of front, side and back of the head protection like seen on skateboard helmets. When falling forward it is common instinct to turn you head to the side before you hit the ground. 

[EUCGUY]

If you only wear a simple helmet, BMX helmet is what i would reccomend, it covers more of the head and should save you from a sideways of backwards fall, as well as being hit by others.
For fast rides where the chance of falling is greater, a MTB helmet is a must in my personal opinion, it protects your chin as wel as face and teeth.

[Chriull]

On 4/17/2019 at 12:49 AM, rinzler said:

Is a 'measily' bicycle helmet going to be enough?

No. It can help, but the "common" incident is literaly a faceplant. With this a bicycle helmet offers no protection. They protect one at other accident scenarios, which are imho not as common with EUCs.

[Xoltri]

I think a full face helmet should be mandatory on speeds greater than 20km/h.  Although I rode for thousands of km with just a skateboard helmet and have never had a serious incident, I recently upgraded to a full face mountain bike helmet after seeing some videos of wipeouts on here.  I do not want to end up breaking my nose or jaw from a faceplant, or worse a traumatic brain injury https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZz8EN_NKw&t=534s

What took me so long to get one was the worry that I would attract too much attention with the more serious looking helmet, basically.  That and I can't drink a coffee while I ride anymore.  But I do feel that it was a good decision.  I ride a MSuper X set to tilt back at 36km/h, in practice I top out at 40km/h.  It feels really fast - too fast to run off should something happen. 

The two incidents I have had, one resulted in me ending up flat on my stomach on the sidewalk.  I had my car keys in my pocket and they cut my leg and stabbed through my jeans.  That was on a cheap 120wh wheel where the physical power switch (poor design) failed and it shut off at 12km/h.  That wipeout was like some describe where you are riding one second and on the ground the next - no time to react.  Slow enough that I wasn't really hurt but if the speeds were higher it would've been a different story.

The other time I fell of the wheel was with my KS16b.  I was riding through a field at nearly top speed (30km/h) and I hit a large divot in the grass.  Luckily with this one I was in a crouching position and was able to run it out.

So you never know what could happen, better to be prepared.

[Yffisch]

I would never ride faster than 20kmh without a full face helmet. I fell once because of a cut off and It went well (around 25-30kmh or something), but I plan not to fall again, but I will probably do that another time so then I want to be prepared!

[rinzler]

6 hours ago, Yffisch said:

I would never ride faster than 20kmh without a full face helmet. I fell once because of a cut off and It went well (around 25-30kmh or something), but I plan not to fall again, but I will probably do that another time so then I want to be prepared!

What were the reasons around cutoff?

I do agree that a full face is the way to go. Kuji rolls has a pretty nice lightweight Fox one which doesn't look to intimidating. But I think I'll opt for one with MIPS and multi-crash rating. 

Needless to say, it will be a long while before I get to the dizzying speeds of 20mph+.

[rinzler]

On 4/17/2019 at 3:51 PM, LanghamP said:

 

 

Looking at this jump breakdown on the thumbnail, it's apparent he always lands sideways to roll out. Seems to me this is the biggest flaw for EUC riding; being at a disadvantage of quick action in the event of a fall/failure. The stem of my escooter is the thing that gives me the most feeling of security. Even at speed, there is something in that split second you have to weight correct or pivot from the handle bars that I thinks saves people from full on face plants.

Has anyone worked out the above roll out equivalent for an EUC? (I know run-off is one option).

[NylahTay]

We were talking about this in another thread last week. He is doing a forward roll after he lands. Keeping yourself loose and practicing so that you act on muscle memory helps in situations like this. The forward roll is commonly used in martial arts, and all the practice has saved me in a nasty few wrecks. 
You have to practice as it is natural for the body to stiffen to brace on impact, when in fact you want to be loose and go with the flow. 

[rinzler]

 

13 minutes ago, NylahTay said:

We were talking about this in another thread last week. He is doing a forward roll after he lands. Keeping yourself loose and practicing so that you act on muscle memory helps in situations like this. The forward roll is commonly used in martial arts, and all the practice has saved me in a nasty few wrecks. 
You have to practice as it is natural for the body to stiffen to brace on impact, when in fact you want to be loose and go with the flow. 

Sounds like we should mix the drinking alcohol thread with this one. If we all get drunk we'd be able to roll out of anything!

I jest, I jest!

Edited April 25, 2019 by rinzler
extra line breaks (perfectionist)

[Yffisch]

14 hours ago, rinzler said:

What were the reasons around cutoff?

I do agree that a full face is the way to go. Kuji rolls has a pretty nice lightweight Fox one which doesn't look to intimidating. But I think I'll opt for one with MIPS and multi-crash rating. 

Needless to say, it will be a long while before I get to the dizzying speeds of 20mph+.

The reason was because of lack of knowledge about the wheel. I had low/medium battery level and could not reach full speed. It started beeping, and I had exceeded the beeping multiple times before that, but at fully charged battery. I did not know about the cut off concept so I just ignored the beep and went full power and then I got a cut off. Only myself to blame. It was actually a good experience to fall off. I was impressed it was "not that bad, really". But without gloves my hands would have been very damaged. My skin gloves took all the damage instead of my own skin and I had to buy a new pair of gloves. I would never ever ride without gloves. I ignore wrist guards and use thick skin gloves instead. I'm thinking of buying a combination of wrist guards and gloves since I don't want to expose my fingers/hands.
My experience was that hands/elbows/knees were the damage areas (in that order). My helmet did not even touch the ground (at that time). I could have skipped the knee pads since they were least important when I had my accident. But they are still important. I wish I could get some nice shoulder protection since that's the only part I'm missing which could hurt me badly.

[Rehab1]

15 hours ago, rinzler said:

Has anyone worked out the above roll out equivalent for an EUC? (I know run-off is one option).

Domtomato’s videos are a true joy to watch and his touch down skills are off the chart. The difference between his superbly controlled landings compared to a daily rider encountering an immediate EUC motor cut out is that every millisecond of Domtomato’s routine, from launch to landing, has been rehearsed millions of times. This has allowed him to develop strong spatial awareness and reflexive responses. 

Acquiring total body awareness and enhancing a rider’s proper reflexive responses to a motor cutout is possible through repetition. I would suggest practicing the landings on a softer surface other than concrete.  

 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 2:51 AM, LanghamP said:

I think having flat-bottomed rubber sneakers with ankle coverage is the most important factor. Something like the Converse All Stars. If you can get the most agility possible during a crash, then that buys you time, and time buys you options. With time you can choose to slide, or roll, or even try to hop enough times to not even fall.

Perversely, protective equipment makes it more likely you'll hit the ground, through less agility and through risk compensation (you use the extra safety margin to go faster). However, if you're treating your 18 incher as a 26 mph scooter, then you have no choice; full-face helmet, gloves, and all that jazz.

 

 

15 hours ago, rinzler said:

Looking at this jump breakdown on the thumbnail, it's apparent he always lands sideways to roll out. Seems to me this is the biggest flaw for EUC riding; being at a disadvantage of quick action in the event of a fall/failure. The stem of my escooter is the thing that gives me the most feeling of security. Even at speed, there is something in that split second you have to weight correct or pivot from the handle bars that I thinks saves people from full on face plants.

Has anyone worked out the above roll out equivalent for an EUC? (I know run-off is one option).

 

14 hours ago, NylahTay said:

We were talking about this in another thread last week. He is doing a forward roll after he lands. Keeping yourself loose and practicing so that you act on muscle memory helps in situations like this. The forward roll is commonly used in martial arts, and all the practice has saved me in a nasty few wrecks. 
You have to practice as it is natural for the body to stiffen to brace on impact, when in fact you want to be loose and go with the flow. 

 

In the interest of "full disclosure" you should all know that despite the awesome look from the video, things aren't always that easy... The 25 step jump in Lyon (about 3:40 into the video) resulted in a (minor) injury...  http://starrcards.com/parkour-pro-dominic-di-tommaso-jumps-down-25-step-stairs-complete-with-midair-front-flip/

Not that I am saying that having these phenomenal reactions wouldn't be a good thing, but for someone like me I would still be expecting to (at the very least) limp away - even worse, I would probably land on my backpack and squash my lunch(es)!

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

 

 

 

In the interest of "full disclosure" you should all know that despite the awesome look from the video, things aren't always that easy... The 25 step jump in Lyon (about 3:40 into the video) resulted in a (minor) injury...  http://starrcards.com/parkour-pro-dominic-di-tommaso-jumps-down-25-step-stairs-complete-with-midair-front-flip/

Not that I am saying that having these phenomenal reactions wouldn't be a good thing, but for someone like me I would still be expecting to (at the very least) limp away - even worse, I would probably land on my backpack and squash my lunch(es)!

And the video shown in the thumbnail above - he broke his foot on that one.

[Braxton Richard Wells]

Hey so I was looking for helmets and the giro switchblade seemed to be pretty good. You can even remove the chin-bar so you can still drink coffee! 

 

[rinzler]

4 hours ago, Braxton Richard Wells said:

Hey so I was looking for helmets and the giro switchblade seemed to be pretty good. You can even remove the chin-bar so you can still drink coffee! 

 

Funnily enough i have recently come across this too and it's on a list.  Haven't looked at many for now but the removable chin strap did stand out. 

I did find another that does the same thing but i cant recall the name right now. That one needed to be unscrewed though. (I thinknit was a Fox team racing one...will update this post later).

[LucasD]

I find it peculiar that somebody wear full face helmet, but have visor. Which is not tested in any norms as well known to produce accidents 

https://helmets.org/visors.htm

[rinzler]

The giro switchblade seems it is perfect. Too bad not really snowboard appropriate. Basically I'm justifying all my expensive equipment by rationalizing i can use then for both activites (eg. Impact armour etc).

 

[kelec_947]

What model do you have for gloves please ? I search

[rinzler]

1 hour ago, kelec_947 said:

What model do you have for gloves please ? I search

This is the one thing i am still struggling with. I want something lightweight but with a good level of abrasion resistance. Something like an enduro glove would be great but incant find anything.  Motorcycle gloves are too ott for pavement riding and low speed. Enduro and other moto/cycling gloves are too thin. Understandably no real palm padding.

As for esk8 gloves... i dont need a puck on my palm!

Thoughts/suggestions welcome.

[Planemo]

The 661 Reset is cheap, light, well ventilated, protective and comfy. I love mine. No removable chin bar but I am not sure I would ever need one tbh.

[Liam9653]

On 03.05.2019 at 10:46 AM, Braxton Richard Wells said:

Hey so I was looking for helmets and the giro switchblade seemed to be pretty good. You can even remove the chin-bar so you can still drink coffee! 

 

I use a similar helmet, only in my black color, it is comfortable and does not seem flimsy.

[Smoother]

On 4/25/2019 at 2:06 PM, Yffisch said:

but I plan not to fall again

Good plan.  Why didn't I think of that?!!

@Chriull s view mirrors my own.  Barring being punted off your wheel by an absent minded driver, the true face plant involves an up close and personal meeting between road surface and said face.  Anything that doesn't prevent "face, meet road" is, at best window dressing for someone like you riding on the sidewalk and bike paths, although, as stated there is always a risk of a different type of head contact if when you come off. And yes, I agree with you; a full face helmet on the sidewalk screams I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE, YOU'RE IN DANGER FROM ME, CALL THE COPS"

My kit is pretty much identical to @esaj minus the helmet.  Does a baseball cap count?

Don't sweat your decision.  You'll love it.  If nothing else, always wear your wrist guards, banged up hands make life very difficult for weeks.