The perfect EUC?

[walsus]

As the title says, what would your perfect EUC look like?
I saw this thread:
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/12061-whats-next-for-inmotion-euc-you-tell-me/
where Inmotion asked for ideas for a new wheel and most of it was just more speed/range which I think is pretty obvious.
What features would you like your EUC to have?

Also can the mods tag the representatives of different companies? I was going to post in the Inmotion thread but I think is better to have just one to gather all the ideas in one place.
I know there are similar threads already but they all got derailed and some suggestions were jokes so I thought a more serious thread could be useful.

My features: (from most to least important)

Suspension - Self-explanatory, very common suggestion in the forums. Increases cost but there is clearly enough demand.

Security - There should be a way to lock the wheel in the app so that you put in a password and the wheel will not work until it is unlocked with that password. If the wheel was stolen it would be useless.  To make guessing the password harder it could make you wait X amount of time for every third wrong password the way smartphones do. Also if someone moves it (checks using the gyro) it sounds an alarm. I think this could be easily added via firmware to current wheels, so the cost should be zero.

Battery temperature management - There should be temperature sensors in the batteries (one would be enough) to check battery temperature. For people outside Asia, freezing temperatures are quite common and it should prevent you from riding with cold batteries. It could lower top speed to be safe or just heat up the batteries. Heating the batteries would be simple, just charge them with regenerative braking. If it's cold, you just put the wheel on its side and it speeds up and then brakes to heat up the batteries. The sensors would have some cost but would make riding wheels in the cold a lot safer. The heating process by speeding up and down can be easily added to existing wheels via firmware, so even without battery sensors you could select something in the app to heat up your batteries.

Higher current batteries - Current EUCs are using batteries rated at 10 Amps, but there are cells rated for 15, 20 and 30 Amps. For example going to something like the Samsung 30Q which are reasonably priced but are still rated at 15A and can easily put out 20A. This means an EUC could start to limit top speed at 20-25% instead of 40, 50 or 60%. These batteries have a lower capacity (~10%), so you trade total range for increased full speed range. These batteries also do better in the cold and, because of the lower internal resistance, for a fixed load they generate less heat, making them better for warmer climates as well. Cost should be low to none as the Samsung 30Q are close in price to the very commonly used EUC battery LG-MH1.

Noise isolation - Adding to the inside of the EUC shell some material that blocks the high frequencies emitted by the motor could make it nearly silent which I would really like. Also it might be interesting to add some ultrasound blocking material, as that might mean less problems with dogs as they can hear those frequencies. Cost should be low as it would require a small amount of material.

Weight setting - You should be able to configure your weight in the firmware using the app, as different riders don't need the speed limits to kick in at the same battery levels. Some heavier riders have gotten cut outs at reasonable speeds because of low battery and cold weather. The speed limiting at low battery assumes the rider has a certain weight, but that may not be safe for heavier riders and is unnecessary for lighter riders. Could be added with firmware so cost should be zero.

USB ports - (I know some wheels have this already) 2 USB ports to charge your phone or other devices. Some people may not use it, but it's ridiculous to carry a power bank with you while you ride your EUC that has a giant battery. Power banks are really cheap, and most of the cost comes from the batteries, so adding a couple USB ports should be cheap.

Adjustable pedal angle - There is no reason not to have this, it would just need different sized blocks that you can screw into the place that supports the pedal. Again, pretty simple and cheap.

Lights - When going up or down hills EUCs remain flat unlike other vehicles which means the lights are not really useful, as they no longer point where you need light. Some people have suggested moving lights, but I think it would be easier to have 2 or 3 lights at different angles and combine them them as needed. For example half power on a 0 degree light and half power on a 30 degree light would simulate a 15 degree light. The EUC could also use speed, rider weight and power usage to get a rough estimate of climbing angle (or just ask the app to ask Google Maps). This way it would "aim" the light where you need it. This would increase cost and I wonder if you guys think it's worth it.

Storage - Having a compartment where you can keep small things would be useful, for example a spare tube in case of a flat and a small pump.

Better speakers - Also a common suggestion but EUCs really should have speakers pointed at the rider. I usually carry a small bluetooth speaker and being that my EUC already has speakers, it would be nice if they had better sound quality. Also with speakers pointed at the rider it would be nice if the EUC could tell me my speed. For example every 5 Km/h change in speed it tells you, so as you accelerate you would hear 5,10,15,... So you know how fast you're going.

Wider tires - With the popularity of the Z10, it would be nice to have some more EUCs with 4" wide tires. Ninebot seems to be leaving the EUC market and as EWheels even stopped selling the Z10, Ninebot leaves behind a space that needs to be filled.

[LanghamP]

I have just two suggestions, one is realistic while the other might not be.

--Make the wheel extremely reliable, as not with redundancy but simply with the most reliable components.

--Three layers of security. 1. Hardware lock the wheel with a chain, 2. software lock the wheel with a loud alarm if moved, 3. GPS track the wheel.

[erk1024]

• "Kickstand": Have a way for the wheel to stand on its own. The InMotion wheels have this, but it's not a great implementation (very easy to knock over). Jason was looking at a 3D printed aftermarket solution that could be added as a replacement mudflap.
• Have redundant control boards. I believe the original Segway's had this, so if one failed the other could take over.

[meepmeepmayer]

Some sophisticated thoughts, nice!

2 hours ago, walsus said:

Weight setting - You should be able to configure your weight in the firmware using the app, as different riders don't need the speed limits to kick in at the same battery levels. Some heavier riders have gotten cut outs at reasonable speeds because of low battery and cold weather. The speed limiting at low battery assumes the rider has a certain weight, but that may not be safe for heavier riders and is unnecessary for lighter riders. Could be added with firmware so cost should be zero.

Much easier to ignore speed and weight limits and just go by power draw itself. Because that's what limits the wheel in the end, and it automatically includes all possible variations in rider weight, riding conditions, and everything else.

Unfortunately wheels go with speed limits and estimated safe speeds instead of looking at power draw, voltage drop, etc. - the real indicators how far away the hardware is from being overwhelmed.

The only good example I know of is the Gotway battery alarms. They start if the voltage drops below a certain level, no matter rider weight or anything else.

Which is how everything should be. Similar power draw limits for limiting the top speeds at every charge state, etc. should be how wheels keep themselves safe.

42 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

Have redundant control boards. I believe the original Segway's had this, so if one failed the other could take over.

That's going to be very expensive, and there's always the question of how exactly it is supposed to work if one board shorts and locks the motor, it might not be so easy to implement board redundancy.

Just using good components is a much better, simpler and cheaper idea:

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

--Make the wheel extremely reliable, as not with redundancy but simply with the most reliable components.

Exactly like this. I always say: planes don't have 2 pairs of wings in case one breaks off. Plane wings are just built strong enough so they don't fall off. EUCs don't need two boards, just one definitely good one.

[erk1024]

56 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

That's going to be very expensive, and there's always the question of how exactly it is supposed to work if one board shorts and locks the motor, it might not be so easy to implement board redundancy.

Good points. I agree it would be too expensive. The original Segways were $6K, and that was too much obviously. The new Gotways (e.g. MSX) got upgraded components and have been really reliable by all accounts.

[Hsiang]

I am going to go the other way and ask for a reliable, weatherproof, light and portable wheel that cost no more than $600. And one that is beautifully designed.

I also like to have removable battery but am willing to sacrifice that to keep the price low.

And with those criteria in mind; crame in as much speed and range as possible!

[mrelwood]

The OP’s list was reasonable and practical, although:

6 hours ago, walsus said:

to have 2 or 3 lights at different angles and combine them them as needed.

While not completely useless, half power level and half power 30 degree lights doesn’t sum to 15 degrees. It would just be a half power light where needed. And short of an infra-red sensor measuring the distance and shape of the ground, I’m not sure if any other sensor related data would be very useful. For example, on a hilly terrain the light would point down on a downhill, while the uphill about to start would be completely dark.

I think a lense for the main light would be overall a more useful next step. Currently the light on most EUCs just shoots a narrow round beam. A lense that lights up the ground a bit up to the center beam would be very useful in my mind. Cost of reshaping the current round plastic lense shouldn’t be very much.

[walsus]

@Lisny Abby @Arnold Li

@Janny @Janny Wang

@Jesse Jin

@Jane Mo @Linneaunicycles  

@Huanxi electric unicycle 

@Bobwheel

@王月月

@PinWheel Joyce

@Barry Chen

@suokuwheel

@Diana-Tan  @Diana@szkingsong.com

@tinawong @US69

@Jason Jiao @Liamfind

[Planemo]

22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Exactly like this. I always say: planes don't have 2 pairs of wings in case one breaks off. Plane wings are just built strong enough so they don't fall off.

Granted, but its more to do with the fact that planes having 2 sets of wings would be totally impractical and horrendously inefficient. So the 'engineer the hell out of the wings' option is better. Heavy, and very time consuming in terms of R&D, but reliable and the only real solution.

There is in fact a huge amount of redundancy built into aircraft, especially passenger commercials, and particularly around electronics..

[Darrell Wesh]

On 4/15/2019 at 3:29 PM, walsus said:

As the title says, what would your perfect EUC look like?
I saw this thread:
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/12061-whats-next-for-inmotion-euc-you-tell-me/
where Inmotion asked for ideas for a new wheel and most of it was just more speed/range which I think is pretty obvious.
What features would you like your EUC to have?

Also can the mods tag the representatives of different companies? I was going to post in the Inmotion thread but I think is better to have just one to gather all the ideas in one place.
I know there are similar threads already but they all got derailed and some suggestions were jokes so I thought a more serious thread could be useful.

My features: (from most to least important)

Suspension - Self-explanatory, very common suggestion in the forums. Increases cost but there is clearly enough demand.

Security - There should be a way to lock the wheel in the app so that you put in a password and the wheel will not work until it is unlocked with that password. If the wheel was stolen it would be useless.  To make guessing the password harder it could make you wait X amount of time for every third wrong password the way smartphones do. Also if someone moves it (checks using the gyro) it sounds an alarm. I think this could be easily added via firmware to current wheels, so the cost should be zero.

Battery temperature management - There should be temperature sensors in the batteries (one would be enough) to check battery temperature. For people outside Asia, freezing temperatures are quite common and it should prevent you from riding with cold batteries. It could lower top speed to be safe or just heat up the batteries. Heating the batteries would be simple, just charge them with regenerative braking. If it's cold, you just put the wheel on its side and it speeds up and then brakes to heat up the batteries. The sensors would have some cost but would make riding wheels in the cold a lot safer. The heating process by speeding up and down can be easily added to existing wheels via firmware, so even without battery sensors you could select something in the app to heat up your batteries.

Higher current batteries - Current EUCs are using batteries rated at 10 Amps, but there are cells rated for 15, 20 and 30 Amps. For example going to something like the Samsung 30Q which are reasonably priced but are still rated at 15A and can easily put out 20A. This means an EUC could start to limit top speed at 20-25% instead of 40, 50 or 60%. These batteries have a lower capacity (~10%), so you trade total range for increased full speed range. These batteries also do better in the cold and, because of the lower internal resistance, for a fixed load they generate less heat, making them better for warmer climates as well. Cost should be low to none as the Samsung 30Q are close in price to the very commonly used EUC battery LG-MH1.

Noise isolation - Adding to the inside of the EUC shell some material that blocks the high frequencies emitted by the motor could make it nearly silent which I would really like. Also it might be interesting to add some ultrasound blocking material, as that might mean less problems with dogs as they can hear those frequencies. Cost should be low as it would require a small amount of material.

Weight setting - You should be able to configure your weight in the firmware using the app, as different riders don't need the speed limits to kick in at the same battery levels. Some heavier riders have gotten cut outs at reasonable speeds because of low battery and cold weather. The speed limiting at low battery assumes the rider has a certain weight, but that may not be safe for heavier riders and is unnecessary for lighter riders. Could be added with firmware so cost should be zero.

USB ports - (I know some wheels have this already) 2 USB ports to charge your phone or other devices. Some people may not use it, but it's ridiculous to carry a power bank with you while you ride your EUC that has a giant battery. Power banks are really cheap, and most of the cost comes from the batteries, so adding a couple USB ports should be cheap.

Adjustable pedal angle - There is no reason not to have this, it would just need different sized blocks that you can screw into the place that supports the pedal. Again, pretty simple and cheap.

Lights - When going up or down hills EUCs remain flat unlike other vehicles which means the lights are not really useful, as they no longer point where you need light. Some people have suggested moving lights, but I think it would be easier to have 2 or 3 lights at different angles and combine them them as needed. For example half power on a 0 degree light and half power on a 30 degree light would simulate a 15 degree light. The EUC could also use speed, rider weight and power usage to get a rough estimate of climbing angle (or just ask the app to ask Google Maps). This way it would "aim" the light where you need it. This would increase cost and I wonder if you guys think it's worth it.

Storage - Having a compartment where you can keep small things would be useful, for example a spare tube in case of a flat and a small pump.

Better speakers - Also a common suggestion but EUCs really should have speakers pointed at the rider. I usually carry a small bluetooth speaker and being that my EUC already has speakers, it would be nice if they had better sound quality. Also with speakers pointed at the rider it would be nice if the EUC could tell me my speed. For example every 5 Km/h change in speed it tells you, so as you accelerate you would hear 5,10,15,... So you know how fast you're going.

Wider tires - With the popularity of the Z10, it would be nice to have some more EUCs with 4" wide tires. Ninebot seems to be leaving the EUC market and as EWheels even stopped selling the Z10, Ninebot leaves behind a space that needs to be filled.

Suspension would take away from the skill and fun of an EUC. Look at a lot of videos users put out there of riding their EUC’s at speed and yelling in exhilaration when they hit a bump or catch air and still remain on the wheel. A sports car driver lowers the car to feel every bump and have supreme feel vs riding in an S class Mercedes sedan with air suspension (not a “drivers” car) and being disconnected. 

 Wider than 4” and you might as well be on a Segway mini pro with two wheels keeping you stable. The 3” wheels everyone is using (16x and Nikola) are perfect width without sacrificing turning efficiency. 

Better speakers? That’s already happening as the Nikola has 25watt speakers and the 16x reportedly has a subwoofer in it. 

Security is IMO the only real doable one on this list that’s a no brainer with no real detriments to implementing. Have it sound an alarm if moved. GPS unit while off would drain the battery but should be able to be toggled on or off. 

[Esper]

I have one thing to say.
Hot Swap Battery Packs
That is all. 

[walsus]

8 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Suspension would take away from the skill and fun of an EUC. Look at a lot of videos users put out there of riding their EUC’s at speed and yelling in exhilaration when they hit a bump or catch air and still remain on the wheel. A sports car driver lowers the car to feel every bump and have supreme feel vs riding in an S class Mercedes sedan with air suspension (not a “drivers” car) and being disconnected. 

 Wider than 4” and you might as well be on a Segway mini pro with two wheels keeping you stable. The 3” wheels everyone is using (16x and Nikola) are perfect width without sacrificing turning efficiency. 

Better speakers? That’s already happening as the Nikola has 25watt speakers and the 16x reportedly has a subwoofer in it. 

Security is IMO the only real doable one on this list that’s a no brainer with no real detriments to implementing. Have it sound an alarm if moved. GPS unit while off would drain the battery but should be able to be toggled on or off. 

I use my EUC to get around so confort and stability are really important. Suspension makes things easier and definitely less fun. I guess they could have different models for commuting and for fun. Or maybe you could lock/tighten the suspension?

To me 3" counts as wider as most EUCs you can buy have 2-2.5" tires. I was comparing to existing models and not to the latest ones. Should have made myself clear about that, but I agree that 3" seems to be a nice balance and I meant instead of 2-2.5" I would prefer 3-4".

I hadn't seen anything about the speakers on those models. A subwoofer? That's exactly what I wanted!

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, walsus said:

Suspension makes things easier and definitely less fun.

I don’t think so at all. I have played around with several types of mild suspension systems on my wheels for a few years. The main advantage has clearly been a less fatiguing ride. I can ride longer and stay more alert. For me that is more fun, not less.

What kind of suspension system has made your rides less fun?

[Gaz Bon]

On 4/16/2019 at 4:59 AM, walsus said:

As the title says, what would your perfect EUC look like?
I saw this thread:
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/12061-whats-next-for-inmotion-euc-you-tell-me/
where Inmotion asked for ideas for a new wheel and most of it was just more speed/range which I think is pretty obvious.
What features would you like your EUC to have?

Also can the mods tag the representatives of different companies? I was going to post in the Inmotion thread but I think is better to have just one to gather all the ideas in one place.
I know there are similar threads already but they all got derailed and some suggestions were jokes so I thought a more serious thread could be useful.

My features: (from most to least important)

Suspension - Self-explanatory, very common suggestion in the forums. Increases cost but there is clearly enough demand.

Security - There should be a way to lock the wheel in the app so that you put in a password and the wheel will not work until it is unlocked with that password. If the wheel was stolen it would be useless.  To make guessing the password harder it could make you wait X amount of time for every third wrong password the way smartphones do. Also if someone moves it (checks using the gyro) it sounds an alarm. I think this could be easily added via firmware to current wheels, so the cost should be zero.

Battery temperature management - There should be temperature sensors in the batteries (one would be enough) to check battery temperature. For people outside Asia, freezing temperatures are quite common and it should prevent you from riding with cold batteries. It could lower top speed to be safe or just heat up the batteries. Heating the batteries would be simple, just charge them with regenerative braking. If it's cold, you just put the wheel on its side and it speeds up and then brakes to heat up the batteries. The sensors would have some cost but would make riding wheels in the cold a lot safer. The heating process by speeding up and down can be easily added to existing wheels via firmware, so even without battery sensors you could select something in the app to heat up your batteries.

Higher current batteries - Current EUCs are using batteries rated at 10 Amps, but there are cells rated for 15, 20 and 30 Amps. For example going to something like the Samsung 30Q which are reasonably priced but are still rated at 15A and can easily put out 20A. This means an EUC could start to limit top speed at 20-25% instead of 40, 50 or 60%. These batteries have a lower capacity (~10%), so you trade total range for increased full speed range. These batteries also do better in the cold and, because of the lower internal resistance, for a fixed load they generate less heat, making them better for warmer climates as well. Cost should be low to none as the Samsung 30Q are close in price to the very commonly used EUC battery LG-MH1.

Noise isolation - Adding to the inside of the EUC shell some material that blocks the high frequencies emitted by the motor could make it nearly silent which I would really like. Also it might be interesting to add some ultrasound blocking material, as that might mean less problems with dogs as they can hear those frequencies. Cost should be low as it would require a small amount of material.

Weight setting - You should be able to configure your weight in the firmware using the app, as different riders don't need the speed limits to kick in at the same battery levels. Some heavier riders have gotten cut outs at reasonable speeds because of low battery and cold weather. The speed limiting at low battery assumes the rider has a certain weight, but that may not be safe for heavier riders and is unnecessary for lighter riders. Could be added with firmware so cost should be zero.

USB ports - (I know some wheels have this already) 2 USB ports to charge your phone or other devices. Some people may not use it, but it's ridiculous to carry a power bank with you while you ride your EUC that has a giant battery. Power banks are really cheap, and most of the cost comes from the batteries, so adding a couple USB ports should be cheap.

Adjustable pedal angle - There is no reason not to have this, it would just need different sized blocks that you can screw into the place that supports the pedal. Again, pretty simple and cheap.

Lights - When going up or down hills EUCs remain flat unlike other vehicles which means the lights are not really useful, as they no longer point where you need light. Some people have suggested moving lights, but I think it would be easier to have 2 or 3 lights at different angles and combine them them as needed. For example half power on a 0 degree light and half power on a 30 degree light would simulate a 15 degree light. The EUC could also use speed, rider weight and power usage to get a rough estimate of climbing angle (or just ask the app to ask Google Maps). This way it would "aim" the light where you need it. This would increase cost and I wonder if you guys think it's worth it.

Storage - Having a compartment where you can keep small things would be useful, for example a spare tube in case of a flat and a small pump.

Better speakers - Also a common suggestion but EUCs really should have speakers pointed at the rider. I usually carry a small bluetooth speaker and being that my EUC already has speakers, it would be nice if they had better sound quality. Also with speakers pointed at the rider it would be nice if the EUC could tell me my speed. For example every 5 Km/h change in speed it tells you, so as you accelerate you would hear 5,10,15,... So you know how fast you're going.

Wider tires - With the popularity of the Z10, it would be nice to have some more EUCs with 4" wide tires. Ninebot seems to be leaving the EUC market and as EWheels even stopped selling the Z10, Ninebot leaves behind a space that needs to be filled.

I love the details you have added and every one else but the perfect EUC will always be a figment of our imagination and to what it looks like I'm not that vain

Imagine what you perfect EUC would look like and that would be were it ends.

As it's yr imagination and it's endless

So today I think 

My wheel would be like an off grid solar battery system ,never a need to plug in to charge, if it's sunny it powers direct to motor with battery backup for cloudy days and nite riding  

Range almost endless

Tomorrow who knows what my perfect EUC will be 

Let's wait till tomorrow

😘😀🤗🤔😎😔

 

[walsus]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t think so at all. I have played around with several types of mild suspension systems on my wheels for a few years. The main advantage has clearly been a less fatiguing ride. I can ride longer and stay more alert. For me that is more fun, not less.

What kind of suspension system has made your rides less fun?

That's what I initially thought, but since I never tried it myself, I assumed my experience would be the same as the previous commenter.