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Celt26

Introduction & questions about MSX!

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Hello all!

I have a new MSX I've had for about a week and it's a great wheel and it's really starting to grow on me! But I have a couple questions.

1. When I lift the wheel off the ground there is a noticeable wobble from side to side in the tire/rim which worsens as the wheels spins more quickly, it at a certain rpm will shake me and the casing (not terribly). I brought it to a bike shop and the tech said he believes it is coming from the rim and not the tire. Is this a normal? Does anyone else have this with their MSX or otherwise? Would it be worth massaging the tire (not sure how to do it) to try to make it better? I'm happy  to post a video if someone wants me to.

2. I was headed home earlier cruising between 21-26mph (at 32% battery) and I noticed that the battery percentage drops to somewhere between 12-21% and fluctuates. Is that dangerous, like is it possible that it could hit 0% and just shutoff or will the wheel stop me from doing that? Basically is it safe and do I really have the 32% battery that Wheellog displays?

 

Thanks guys!

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7 hours ago, Celt26 said:

Hello all!

I have a new MSX I've had for about a week and it's a great wheel and it's really starting to grow on me! But I have a couple questions.

1. When I lift the wheel off the ground there is a noticeable wobble from side to side in the tire/rim which worsens as the wheels spins more quickly, it at a certain rpm will shake me and the casing (not terribly). I brought it to a bike shop and the tech said he believes it is coming from the rim and not the tire. Is this a normal? Does anyone else have this with their MSX or otherwise? Would it be worth massaging the tire (not sure how to do it) to try to make it better? I'm happy  to post a video if someone wants me to.

2. I was headed home earlier cruising between 21-26mph (at 32% battery) and I noticed that the battery percentage drops to somewhere between 12-21% and fluctuates. Is that dangerous, like is it possible that it could hit 0% and just shutoff or will the wheel stop me from doing that? Basically is it safe and do I really have the 32% battery that Wheellog displays?

 

Thanks guys!

I know mine is not an MSX but it seems to be a Chinese motor manufacturing problem. Just recently purchased KS 18XL

Regards - Bruno

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Hey Marty,

Are you saying that it may indicate 0% or close to it but that the actually danger zone is only when the 3rd alarm comes on? I was paying attention for it and I just never heard it or any alarm but was watching the battery percentage hit 12% and around there.

Also what are your thoughts on the wheel wobble? Does your MSX have side to side movement on the rim/tire? I'll post a video later on today. It doesn't appear to be the hub movement that bruno356 has on his KS18. The wobble on mine is definitely noteable at a certain speed when holding the wheel in the air or on a mount. That being said it does seem to ride ok, I do get wobbles but the wheel is relatively new to me so hard to say how much of it is me aka body tension. When I'm relaxed it's pretty smooth. But the thing is I spent 2k on the wheel I want to make sure it's sound :).

 

Hey bruno,

So my MSX doesn't seem to have the hub movement that you have or had on your KS18. I need to make a video which I'll do later but yeah. What'd you end up doing with your wheel?

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3 hours ago, Celt26 said:

Hey Marty,

Are you saying that it may indicate 0% or close to it but that the actually danger zone is only when the 3rd alarm comes on? I was paying attention for it and I just never heard it or any alarm but was watching the battery percentage hit 12% and around there.

Also what are your thoughts on the wheel wobble? Does your MSX have side to side movement on the rim/tire? I'll post a video later on today. It doesn't appear to be the hub movement that bruno356 has on his KS18. The wobble on mine is definitely noteable at a certain speed when holding the wheel in the air or on a mount. That being said it does seem to ride ok, I do get wobbles but the wheel is relatively new to me so hard to say how much of it is me aka body tension. When I'm relaxed it's pretty smooth. But the thing is I spent 2k on the wheel I want to make sure it's sound :).

 

Hey bruno,

So my MSX doesn't seem to have the hub movement that you have or had on your KS18. I need to make a video which I'll do later but yeah. What'd you end up doing with your wheel?

I just about never lift up my wheels to see how the time spins at super high speed. So I can't say what my MSX does. But for another user (for his 18XL) I tested a handful of my wheels for tire/motor wobble. Some of my tires have a fair amount of imbalance to them when viewed with a ruler. But they all ride fine.

For me, if the wheel feels OK while I ride it, then it's good.

Gotway wheels also have a low battery warning beeping that triggers at 15-percent. If the battery momentarily dips below 15-percent it probably won't trigger, but if the battery is below 15-percent continuously (more than a second or so) than it will trigger.

Assuming that your beeper is not defective, just always pay attention to the beeper rather than what the app momentarily displays. I always slow down when I hear the beep and I've never had a cutout.

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11 hours ago, Celt26 said:

Hey bruno,

So my MSX doesn't seem to have the hub movement that you have or had on your KS18. I need to make a video which I'll do later but yeah. What'd you end up doing with your wheel?

@Celt26 at this stage I am still undecided (I still have it), it seems my wheel is at the maximum allowable limit for its size 18 inch at 1mm sideways wobble. @kasenutty has recently purchased the KS-18XL and is going to check his to see if the motor / rim assy. also has sideways wobble.

regards - Bruno

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On 4/15/2019 at 5:09 AM, Celt26 said:

1. When I lift the wheel off the ground there is a noticeable wobble from side to side

Some wobble is normal, waiting for the video to see the amount of movement you have.

On 4/15/2019 at 5:09 AM, Celt26 said:

Would it be worth massaging the tire (not sure how to do it) to try to make it better?

If the wobble bothers you, it can be lessened and/or counterbalanced by re-seating the tire:

1) Let out air enough for you to be able to move the tire a bit further/closer to the rim.

2) Set the wheel on it’s side. While rotating the rim (don’t touch the tire), compare the outer edge of the tire to a bottle (or any vertical object) placed just a few mm from the tire.

3) Push/pull/twist/bend the tire so that thendistance to the bottle stays as uniform as possible.

4) Pump 2 handpumpfuls of air into the tire.

5) Repeat 2) - 4) until the tire is no longer movable, then pump up to riding pressure.

If the wobbles still bother you, weight balancing the tire is the final step you can do:

 

On 4/15/2019 at 5:09 AM, Celt26 said:

battery percentage drops to somewhere between 12-21% and fluctuates.

Battery voltage drops when you stress the wheel. That’s why one needs to ride easier on a low battery. The wheel won’t switch off at 0%, but it won’t have much power for fast accelerations or speeds.

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Posted (edited)

Hey everyone,

 

So here are my videos, please check them out and let me know your thoughts! Oh and the rubbing sound is the tire rubbing against my ghetto electrical tape mud guard, so nothing to worry about there...

So one is a top view of the tire and the second is from the front so you can sort of see the hub motor/tire/rim.

 

Also on a side note I noticed that when the battery hits 10% because of sag or w/e it is I start getting the 3 beeps! I'm guessing those are the ones I don't want to ignore?

 

Edited by Celt26
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That wobble looks completely fine to me, unless you notice it in any way during riding (as Marty said, that's the only important point when judging such an imbalance). Also, it seems to be only the tire, the motor itself looks pretty even (it is a bit hard to see in the video). Deflate and reseat the tire if you like, can't hurt.

By the way, you don't need to switch on the wheel to show this. Simply lay it on its side and rotate the tire by hand and you'll see everything move (or not). Easier to film:)

4 hours ago, Celt26 said:

Also on a side note I noticed that when the battery hits 10% because of sag or w/e it is I start getting the 3 beeps! I'm guessing those are the ones I don't want to ignore?

Gotways give you low-battery beeps when the battery is at 15% or lower, which corresponds to a certain battery voltage (battery voltage drops while a battery discharges, here 84V is full and 66V is empty). One slow beep at 15%, 2 slow beeps at 10%, 3 at 5% (and tiltback near 0%).

Any stressing the batteries will also cause a voltage drop. So you may see 30% battery when standing still, but then you ride and accelerate and it drops to 15% or less and you get beeps. 15% voltage drop is normal, especially with low batteries, but you can see some voltage drop any time during riding if you monitor the voltage, you'll see it dip when you accelerate. You'll usually hear the low-battery beeps first when doing some small acceleration or incline and it drops below 15% battery for the first time.

I consider my Gotway empty at 30% battery (as shown when standing still and you're off the wheel - no load on it) because then the battery beeps will "start very soon" - it drops to 15% under load and you get annoying beeps. You can still do a few slow km/miles, but have to get progressively slower quickly, and it's no fun because you have to heavily limit your speed. 30% is where the fun stops.

I wouldn't go faster than 30kph/20mph at 30% battery, and if you hear any battery beeps, simply slow down (you'll have to reduce your speed a lot to stay above the beeps, just don't ignore them). Then you can crawl home, at these low speeds some beeps are ok and unavoidable, tiltback has your back. I guess a rule of thumb would be: don't go faster than x kph if at x% battery, e.g. 30kph max at 30%, 25kph max at 25%, and so on. The wheel will pretty much force you anyways (with beeps). You do the mph conversion;)

While in theory the beeps should warn you, it's probably possible to quickly overwhelm the battery at this low charge state so I wouldn't push it. So simply listen to the beeps (and slow down if you hear them) and don't do crazy things/speeds at low battery, that should be enough. Same applies to the 3rd alarm (like the optional speed beeps, but 5/continuous beeps). If you hear it, just slow down. The 3rd alarm is just a variable speed alarm where the beep speed falls with dropping battery level, but towards the end the battery beeps will take over in practice (low battery beeps at lower speed than the 3rd alarm), so they're both equally important and should not be ignored.

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Posted (edited)

I haven't read anybody mention it so I will.  If your batteries gets a sudden, large voltage sag while at a low state of charge, that is large enough, it WILL CUT OUT ON YOU.  This sudden Voltage sag can be anything that draws a sudden amount of power such as hitting a pot hole or bump at speed.  In a case like this there are no beeps, no tilt back no nothing, just nothing, and then your using your face as a brake.  There's video somewhere of a Tesla (singapore I think) doing this at about 40kph (nasty fall).Although the MSX has large batteries, zero is still zero, and eventually you will encounter a real zero, as in a cut out. Don't routinely ride your batteries this low, and if you do, ride cautiously. You have been advised.

Edited by Smoother
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8 hours ago, Celt26 said:

Hey everyone,

 

So here are my videos, please check them out and let me know your thoughts! Oh and the rubbing sound is the tire rubbing against my ghetto electrical tape mud guard, so nothing to worry about there...

So one is a top view of the tire and the second is from the front so you can sort of see the hub motor/tire/rim.

 

Also on a side note I noticed that when the battery hits 10% because of sag or w/e it is I start getting the 3 beeps! I'm guessing those are the ones I don't want to ignore?

 

Looks good to me. Not perfect, but no wheel is.

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The motor cover has only a very slight wave, but the edge of the rim is not shown. While the wheel’s sideways travel is notable, I wouldn’t think much of it had there not been the vibration in the first video that was quite prominent at a certain speed.

I would take the time and try to center the tire, and probably balance the wheel with tire weights.

That said, even a wobble that obvious might disappear with the rider’s weight on the wheel.

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Hey guys,

 

So I tried to adjust the tire just by deflating and squeezing and attempting to manipulate it into some kind of better fit. It doesn't seem to have done anything. A few days ago (I never mentioned this) I went to a bike shop and they told me they suspected it was the rim.

Do you guys think this is something that's worth taking up with Jason (bought from ewheels). I mean ultimately I assume it would have to be replaced with another motor/rim since I believe they are one unit? It doesn't seem to effect ride ability but I'm not really sure yet because the wheel is new to me. It's more the shaking at a certain rpm that  bothers me. Plus I spent 2k on this wheel and if I'm the only one with this degree of wobble then that's upsetting and I'm definitely going to want some sort of actual remedy. 

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21 minutes ago, Celt26 said:

Hey guys,

 

So I tried to adjust the tire just by deflating and squeezing and attempting to manipulate it into some kind of better fit. It doesn't seem to have done anything. A few days ago (I never mentioned this) I went to a bike shop and they told me they suspected it was the rim.

Do you guys think this is something that's worth taking up with Jason (bought from ewheels). I mean ultimately I assume it would have to be replaced with another motor/rim since I believe they are one unit? It doesn't seem to effect ride ability but I'm not really sure yet because the wheel is new to me. It's more the shaking at a certain rpm that  bothers me. Plus I spent 2k on this wheel and if I'm the only one with this degree of wobble then that's upsetting and I'm definitely going to want some sort of actual remedy. 

Maybe I'll shoot a little video of mine. Your videos are shot with the wheel sitting on boxes which accentuate the effect of the vibration.

Free spinning a wheel in the air is not the same as riding the wheel with ~200-pounds (your weight plus the weight of the machine) resting on the tire. Keep that in mind.

Different wheel, but my KS18XL certainly has a worse wobble in the tire and there's some crazy vibration when the wheel spins up to the cutoff speed. No affect on my riding that I can discern.

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19 minutes ago, EUC GUY said:

Looks to just be the tire. do this and call it a day :)

Fantastic video :cheers:

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Posted (edited)

Hi, yes good video for fixing tyre not running concentric to axis problem, but you notice his wheel / rim does not have any sideways wobble, it runs true as it should be.

Edited by bruno356
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48 minutes ago, bruno356 said:

Hi, yes good video for fixing tyre not running concentric to axis problem, but you notice his wheel / rim does not have any sideways wobble, it runs true as it should be.

He may never find the perfect wheel.

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So I tried EUC guy's video and rode it afterwards. It didn't make a difference. 

On 4/20/2019 at 5:39 PM, bruno356 said:

Hi, yes good video for fixing tyre not running concentric to axis problem, but you notice his wheel / rim does not have any sideways wobble, it runs true as it should be.

Like Bruno356 says mine isn't having an issue of the tire not running concentric to the axis. 

I did get a chance to test out a friends MSX on a ride today and lifting it up it has an off road tire but has the same issue as mine if not a little worse. It makes me feel a bit better knowing I'm not the only one. But that is a bit of a bummer for both of us even if it doesn't affect the ride quality.   

 

On 4/20/2019 at 9:53 AM, Marty Backe said:

Maybe I'll shoot a little video of mine. Your videos are shot with the wheel sitting on boxes which accentuate the effect of the vibration.

Free spinning a wheel in the air is not the same as riding the wheel with ~200-pounds (your weight plus the weight of the machine) resting on the tire. Keep that in mind.

Different wheel, but my KS18XL certainly has a worse wobble in the tire and there's some crazy vibration when the wheel spins up to the cutoff speed. No affect on my riding that I can discern.

Marty if you wouldn't mind, it would be cool to see a video of your MSX! I'm more interested in that since that's what I have. 

 

Overall I'm happy with my wheel, I would just like to see some other peoples experiences and know whether these are more or less isolated cases or if it's something that's worth pursuing to get sorted out.

On a side note I really wish Gotway and Kingsong could improve their QC in this area, they're selling to the US market now the bar needs to go up. I wonder how much of their business is coming here.

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Well it seems like this is the end of the line there haven't been any updates. I've got used to it (and still love my wheel) at this point and there doesn't seem to be a real fix for it anyway short of replacing the whole motor/rim. I guess anyone reading this in the future just know that buying a Chinese wheel comes with Chinese QC which can include have a rim that isn't trued correctly or however you say that. I hope this gets remedied in the future.

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