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Pitbull killed my neighbors dog.


RockyTop

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 To be clear I am not a fan of pitbulls. That said they can be very loving and loyal dogs. In fact their strong loyalty is often what gets them in trouble. It is best to have them as friends and not foes. 

  Last night a 40 pound female pitbull showed up on my door step. She seemed very friendly. I had just let my two Brittany spaniels out for last call on the restroom.  My dogs returned after 5 minutes with the pit in tow. We live in a subdivision that is out in the county. Most of the dogs here are friendly labs and other non aggressive breeds that get along. I checked her collar for a phone number and did not find one. I petted her and bid her a good farewell as I headed off to bed. The next morning I found her still on my front porch. Not wanting to encourage her to stay, I walked past her and headed off to work. 

  At 9am I got a call from my wife. She said that the pit had killed the next door neighbor’s Jack Russell terrier.  My wife said she had heard our neighbor screaming so she ran out and saw that the pit was ripping the Jack Russell’s throat apart. My wife got a fence picket and knocked the pit off the Jack Russell but it was too late. The pit ran back to our porch and curled up in the corner. She knows that she was a bad dog and I am sure that she is very sorry. The neighbors had called the authorities and the pit will be put down later today. The  pit is a very loving and loyal dog that simply does not know any better. It is very sad that dogs are bred with such power to kill and a heart that is so loving and caring. 

  So in the end two dogs that I cared about passed away today. 

  Unfortunately this is a common story in my area. Most stories are much worse. I know that  this could happen with almost any breed. In my area however, It is almost always a pitbull. 

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Aw man that's awful.  Sorry to hear about that.  Pitbulls have a bad rep unfortunately, and there's always something in the news about them attacking adults, kids, and other pets.  It's almost like having a mini pet Velociraptor.  Fun's fun until it injures or kills another living being.  Some animals just don't make for great pets.  Like hedgehogs.  Crazy carnivorous bunnies.  Hyenas.  Lions.  Aligators.

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@Lutalo

Translation: yes, pitbulls are dangerous. Here's one that broke my arm that I had to kill.

It's almost always pitbulls that are aggressive to me in the park or on the street. It's always the THOT that's being dragged by three pitbulls who you gotta avoid. It's always the pitbull that you hear about a mauling.

Pitbulls are the SUVs of the dog world. You buy one because they are aggressive guard dogs and wanna give aggressive people around you pause before they mess with you. I got a pitbull, I want people to piss their pants when they be around me.

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On 4/12/2019 at 12:59 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

But whose dog was it?

While we're on the topic, how's your little cable nibbler? Still uneaten?

:furious:  It’s still alive.  Pooping like crazy and wanting to bite everything in sight.  I hear some bunnies aren’t as destructive.  I guess I lucked out and got one of the odd balls.  It’s soft and fluffy and cute, but man it’s got attitude sometimes.  If it doesn’t get its snacks it shreds up its cage paper and flips his waterbowl over like a disgruntled prisoner.  :rolleyes:  Not a good pet!

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20 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

If it doesn’t get its snacks it shreds up its cage paper and flips his waterbowl over like a disgruntled prisoner.

:laughbounce2:

I guess since you took it prisoner, that makes sense:P

Would be interesting to do take a rabbit born in captivity and a rabbit caught in the wild (like yours), put them together in a cage, and see what happens. Different ways of growing up = different behavior? Bunny psychology!

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Guest PogArt Artur
On 4/12/2019 at 4:01 PM, RockyTop said:

 To be clear I am not a fan of pitbulls. That said they can be very loving and loyal dogs. In fact their strong loyalty is often what gets them in trouble. It is best to have them as friends and not foes. 

  Last night a 40 pound female pitbull showed up on my door step. She seemed very friendly. I had just let my two Brittany spaniels out for last call on the restroom.  My dogs returned after 5 minutes with the pit in tow. We live in a subdivision that is out in the county. Most of the dogs here are friendly labs and other non aggressive breeds that get along. I checked her collar for a phone number and did not find one. I petted her and bid her a good farewell as I headed off to bed. The next morning I found her still on my front porch. Not wanting to encourage her to stay, I walked past her and headed off to work. 

  At 9am I got a call from my wife. She said that the pit had killed the next door neighbor’s Jack Russell terrier.  My wife said she had heard our neighbor screaming so she ran out and saw that the pit was ripping the Jack Russell’s throat apart. My wife got a fence picket and knocked the pit off the Jack Russell but it was too late. The pit ran back to our porch and curled up in the corner. She knows that she was a bad dog and I am sure that she is very sorry. The neighbors had called the authorities and the pit will be put down later today. The  pit is a very loving and loyal dog that simply does not know any better. It is very sad that dogs are bred with such power to kill and a heart that is so loving and caring. 

  So in the end two dogs that I cared about passed away today. 

  Unfortunately this is a common story in my area. Most stories are much worse. I know that  this could happen with almost any breed. In my area however, It is almost always a pitbull. 

So sorry to hear that my friend.

I know exactly what's alike...

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3 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Translation: yes, pitbulls are dangerous. Here's one that broke my arm that I had to kill.

If you believe pit bulls are dangerous that's cool with me; I don't see the point in debating beliefs. However, I don't share your belief that pit bulls are dangerous. I am saying simply that the dog that bit me and broke my arm was dangerous; that's all. 

All dogs can breeds can be properly socialized in the right hands. What happened with me has happened only once and it happened to be a pit bull because that is my preferred breed of dog to keep. My niece was mauled by a German shepherd and a Rottweiler at the age of seven. She is now an adult and has had many reconstructive surgeries throughout her life resulting from that terrible incident. A dangerous animal is a dangerous animal. Danger is not breed specific; it is animal specific. Any big dog with big teeth can be dangerous enough to deform a child's face for life. 

Due to their reputation for being tough, pit bulls end up often in the wrong hands, and are subjected to untold abuses and unfair media attention as a result.

When I was growing up in the 70's German Shepherds, and Doberman Pinschers were almost always the dogs involved in maulings; because in those days, these two breeds were the most popular "tough" dogs. My dog companion even then was a pit bull; no one even really knew what a pit bull was back then.

Back then a pit bull to the general public knowledge was the equivalent to an EUC today. I was known as the boy with the "little rascals" dog; because my dog resembled "Petey", the Pit Bull from the show The Little Rascals. I know of no incidents with maulings growing up that involved Pit bulls, and the vilification to which they are subjected today was unheard of because at that time criminals and other assorted idiots preferred dobermans, rottweilers, Huskies, and German Shepherds. The Pit Bull was the cute dog on the RCA record label, the Little Rascals show, and the Marine Corps Mascot "Corporal Dog." 

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Guest PogArt Artur
7 hours ago, Lutalo said:

If you believe pit bulls are dangerous that's cool with me; I don't see the point in debating beliefs. However, I don't share your belief that pit bulls are dangerous. I am saying simply that the dog that bit me and broke my arm was dangerous; that's all. 

All dogs can breeds can be properly socialized in the right hands. What happened with me has happened only once and it happened to be a pit bull because that is my preferred breed of dog to keep. My niece was mauled by a German shepherd and a Rottweiler at the age of seven. She is now an adult and has had many reconstructive surgeries throughout her life resulting from that terrible incident. A dangerous animal is a dangerous animal. Danger is not breed specific; it is animal specific. Any big dog with big teeth can be dangerous enough to deform a child's face for life. 

Due to their reputation for being tough, pit bulls end up often in the wrong hands, and are subjected to untold abuses and unfair media attention as a result.

When I was growing up in the 70's German Shepherds, and Doberman Pinschers were almost always the dogs involved in maulings; because in those days, these two breeds were the most popular "tough" dogs. My dog companion even then was a pit bull; no one even really knew what a pit bull was back then.

Back then a pit bull to the general public knowledge was the equivalent to an EUC today. I was known as the boy with the "little rascals" dog; because my dog resembled "Petey", the Pit Bull from the show The Little Rascals. I know of no incidents with maulings growing up that involved Pit bulls, and the vilification to which they are subjected today was unheard of because at that time criminals and other assorted idiots preferred dobermans, rottweilers, Huskies, and German Shepherds. The Pit Bull was the cute dog on the RCA record label, the Little Rascals show, and the Marine Corps Mascot "Corporal Dog." 

I'm fully agree to what you've said @Lutalo.

I love dogs, but to love dogs you need to understand their nature, and not confuse them with human beings - it's always happen!

I'm not willing to dig any deeper to the subject,but I wish to share only my single thought, if you don't mind friends...

I could compare owning the dogs, especially those capable of showing their great power, to the guns.

To me the gun are used in good will, for example cops saving our lives, soldiers protecting our countries etc., but the same guns are used opposite too, to kill the others.

Living with the dog is living with responsibility,it always should be of GOOD friendship and animal being socialised.

Unfortunately there is other aspect involved - the mental health.

We shall not forget the dogs are living creatures with great emotionality, like we humans.

If they're born with some mental issues,they might be eager to behave irrational, and olso they do remember and carry bad and good feelings...

I believe at some cases of attack, the dogs might reminded some bad situation from their past that we've got no clue about it...

The dog can't tell what caused the attack, we're blaming the dog, but he might suffer harm in his past, and he did attack basing on his bad experience from its past...

Sorry...

Just few thoughts.

It's only my very personal point of view, so please don't take it any different.

Best regards.  

 

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2 hours ago, PogArt Artur said:

I'm fully agree to what you've said @Lutalo.

I love dogs, but to love dogs you need to understand their nature, and not confuse them with human beings - it's always happen!

I'm not willing to dig any deeper to the subject,but I wish to share only my single thought, if you don't mind friends...

I could compare owning the dogs, especially those capable of showing their great power, to the guns.

To me the gun are used in good will, for example cops saving our lives, soldiers protecting our countries etc., but the same guns are used opposite too, to kill the others.

Living with the dog is living with responsibility,it always should be of GOOD friendship and animal being socialised.

Unfortunately there is other aspect involved - the mental health.

We shall not forget the dogs are living creatures with great emotionality, like we humans.

If they're born with some mental issues,they might be eager to behave irrational, and olso they do remember and carry bad and good feelings...

I believe at some cases of attack, the dogs might reminded some bad situation from their past that we've got no clue about it...

The dog can't tell what caused the attack, we're blaming the dog, but he might suffer harm in his past, and he did attack basing on his bad experience from its past...

Sorry...

Just few thoughts.

It's only my very personal point of view, so please don't take it any different.

Best regards.  

 

I absolutely. We have a past shapes how we think and and respond and so to do animals; dogs more specifically. 

A dog that has suffered abuse from humans is more likely to bite humans. The dog that bit me was already an adult dog when I received it; I took it on because it was already housebroken. I have never run afoul of any dog that I have raised from a puppy. 

It is a shame to blame an animal for abuses that it may suffered at the hands of humans, because only animal will suffer.

There are no resocialization programs of which I am aware for abused animals who's "danger" is more than likely a defense mechanism. An animal that bites a human will be killed/euthanized. If there was such a resocialization program (assuming reasonable cost), I would have tried it with this animal. 

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Guest PogArt Artur
2 hours ago, Lutalo said:

I absolutely. We have a past shapes how we think and and respond and so to do animals; dogs more specifically. 

A dog that has suffered abuse from humans is more likely to bite humans. The dog that bit me was already an adult dog when I received it; I took it on because it was already housebroken. I have never run afoul of any dog that I have raised from a puppy. 

It is a shame to blame an animal for abuses that it may suffered at the hands of humans, because only animal will suffer.

There are no resocialization programs of which I am aware for abused animals who's "danger" is more than likely a defense mechanism. An animal that bites a human will be killed/euthanized. If there was such a resocialization program (assuming reasonable cost), I would have tried it with this animal. 

Again - fully agree.

We're talking in here about dogs, but the same scenario is regarding wild animals getting mad...

Elephants for example...

They are very intelligent, having their social life in the family...

Taken away, kept in captivity, risen by random people, carring the luggage of good and bad memories ...

Sometimes their mind gives up, they getting mad...

Ressocialisation can be very good, unfortunately I think once the dog had crossed the line, he knows it's possible to go that far, so I believe, that even after successful ressocialisation, I would keep a "third" eye on that dog ever after...

To me it's like prisoner...

After released, after ressociaisation, he knows the "bad" already, he may commit the crime again - if that makes a sense.

Again - it's only my personal thoughts, not to be followed or anything else.

Respect!

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On 4/12/2019 at 2:59 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

But whose dog was it?

Update. The pit had a chip and owner was identified. The owner was charger with reckless endangerment and a law suite has been filed for the death of my neighbors dog. The pit has been sent to an out of state rescue and temperment easement center at the owner expense. The owner will not get the pit back but the pit has a chance at a future..

The jack russell (Diasy) was a birthday gift to a 5 year old girl that is now 15

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11 hours ago, RockyTop said:

Update. The pit had a chip and owner was identified. The owner was charger with reckless endangerment and a law suite has been filed for the death of my neighbors dog. The pit has been sent to an out of state rescue and temperment easement center at the owner expense. The owner will not get the pit back but the pit has a chance at a future..

The jack russell (Diasy) was a birthday gift to a 5 year old girl that is now 15

Sorry to hear about the dog that was killed. Glad the bulldog will be given a chance to one day find a new home with a new social understanding. 😂👍

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Guest PogArt Artur
19 hours ago, RockyTop said:

Update. The pit had a chip and owner was identified. The owner was charger with reckless endangerment and a law suite has been filed for the death of my neighbors dog. The pit has been sent to an out of state rescue and temperment easement center at the owner expense. The owner will not get the pit back but the pit has a chance at a future..

The jack russell (Diasy) was a birthday gift to a 5 year old girl that is now 15

Sad story indeed...

Once happen, no chance to reverse the time...

Thanks for info @RockyTop.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/12/2019 at 1:55 PM, Lutalo said:

I know better than to blame the breed;

Apparently not.  Terriers are bred to do exactly what your pit bull TERRIER did.

any dog is capable of attacking, and any breed with any size is a threat when they do attack

Not at this, the actually relevant, level.  Combine likelihood with capability to cause damage, and you have a combo that may well not be within the capabilities of the average person to handle or understand, or within the need of the average person to possess.

I love animals, but I will allow no dog to challenge me for dominance in my home; that job belongs to my wife.

I'm certainly with you there.  As well as with not having a pitbull, or any terrier of any size, in a room with small children, as numerous veterinarians advise.  Breeds truly are different and there is no way of getting around it, no more than there is a way of getting around nature itself.  And .. the nature we ourselves breed into them selectively over countless generations.  If I had to choose who to blame, I would blame people first, dogs second.  But the dogs are still what we made them, and that goes far beyond what any one of us can do to affect any one lifetime.

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1 hour ago, Dingfelder said:

Apparently not.  Terriers are bred to do exactly what your pit bull TERRIER did.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. I don't know of any terrier 'bred' to attack humans. This statement is entirely incorrect.

I repeat: my relationship with the Pit Bull breed the extends the length my entire life so far. I think that if they were bred to "attack humans, I would know a little something about that."

I am certain the breed is not capable of hiding it's nature from me for 45 years; the length of time I owned Pit bulls exclusively before ever being bitten. 

It is unfair to the animal to criminalize it based on a misinformed understanding of its history. 

1 hour ago, Dingfelder said:

Not at this, the actually relevant, level.  Combine likelihood with capability to cause damage, and you have a combo that may well not be within the capabilities of the average person to handle or understand, or within the need of the average person to possess.

???? See my previous statement. Since Your understanding of a Pit Bulls "likelihood" to attack people based on "breeding" is entirely off base, the rest of the statement is pointless.

Subtract your misguided belief, and you really only reiterate the point that any dog is capable of attacking, and any dog of size is a threat in this scenario. 

1 hour ago, Dingfelder said:

As well as with not having a pitbull, or any terrier of any size, in a room with small children, as numerous veterinarians advise. 

I have met and developed relationships with many veterinarians, over the many years that I have owned dogs, and I have never met one that would advise something so ignorant and superstitious. Most of the ones I know consider breed specific legislation and policies ignorant, and strongly oppose it.

In DC, I have met many veterinarians protesting such backward breed specific policies and regulations in the various hearings I have attended on the matter over the years. I have never met one veterinarian who advocated for breed specific legislation

Finally,  on this last point, I will refrain from regaling you with the many fantastic accomplishment of my children as they grew.

They had a wonderful childhood and Pit Bulls were a big part of that experience. The results of my parenting practices and skills speak quite well for themselves and require no explanation here. 

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You are mistaken in refining your reaction to my response so narrowly.  Obviously most terriers were not bred specifically to attack humans, so ... why is this an objection?  They were bred to be extremely aggressive toward smaller prey, as well as very quick, relentless, and determined. That is why they have long been the subject of gambling, from people betting on how many rats they could kill how fast to their fate in dogfights to their being bred specifically to fight bulls.  It was their temperament that was bred.  Temperament doesn't have to be specifically directed against humans, and it likely hasn't been ... but an aggressive, prey-directed temperament has been selectively bred into them over a huge number of generations.  Not only history but many vets will confirm.  

If you have to go to any lengths to twist what I am saying, then what I am saying gathers value rather than loses it. Or, as said, just ask some vets or read the history of the terrier lines and what they are bred for.  I am a huge dog lover myself, but no breeder or handler who is both experienced AND knowledgeable divorces any breed from its genetics for purposes of publicity or favortism.

As to experience, I grew up with a family having a quarantine, kennel, and pet shop.  We have had virtually every kind of dog popular at the time.  My mother is an international dog judge in multiple categories, and we have had a long line of champions in multiple categories up to the present day.  There is little in the dog "field" so to speak that my family has not done with dogs and that I have not been a part of.  But that is of no matter. 

Genetics count and facts do not care about your feelings. Or mine.  That's great that you are a champion for what you like.  But being a champion for something doesn't necessarily make you an authority on anything.  And even authorities can get things wrong and should certainly be subject to question.

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22 minutes ago, Dingfelder said:

They were bred to be extremely aggressive toward smaller prey, as well as very quick, relentless, and determined.

A lot, perhaps the majority, of terriers are extremely small, and so regardless of their temperament they are not particularly dangerous to most people even including small children. In contrast, the person who gets a pitbull wants his dog to be as large as he can afford; it's always the large dog lunging at me on the leash, and almost always a pit bull (or two).

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Last I read, chihuahuas were the breed most likely to bite.  I'm not much of a reader, though.  

Re terriers being small, this doesn't matter much. It's the temperament that counts when thinking of their cohabitation with humans, and the type of humans they are cohabitating with.  A lot of history has people with their dogs outside, rather than in the family home.  Things change.  

These days, a former vermin dog that lived outside running randomly between the barn and the house, or silo if you were lucky, is now in the house in the face of your baby, a queer pink juicy little fleshy tasty thing roughly the size of their natural prey.  Dogs are not humans, and terriers are markedly and historically understood and verified as aggressive by breeders from random to top of the AKC and similar.  It doesn't make them a bad thing.  It does make them more suitable to some tasks than others.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/26/2019 at 6:41 AM, Lutalo said:

Subtract your misguided belief, and you really only reiterate the point that any dog is capable of attacking, and any dog of size is a threat in this scenario. 

Apparently pitbulls are much more dangerous and expensive than I thought.

Pitbulls are dangerous and the other breeds aren't even close.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/09/13/americas-most-dangerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#387ba2cf62f8

The following infographic shows that the Pit Bull is still responsible for the most fatal attacks in the U.S. by far, killing 284 people over that 13-year period – 66 percent of total fatalities. That’s despite the breed accounting for just 6.5% of the total U.S. dog population.

I was also surprised to see the average dog bite cost $18,000, and there's something like a million dog bites per year, then perhaps dog liability insurance should be mandatory.

@Lutalo, I'm wondering how you'll deny that pitbulls are dangerous. I'm going to be amused at your mental gymnastics.

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10 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Apparently pitbulls are much more dangerous and expensive than I thought.

Pitbulls are dangerous and the other breeds aren't even close.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/09/13/americas-most-dangerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#387ba2cf62f8

The following infographic shows that the Pit Bull is still responsible for the most fatal attacks in the U.S. by far, killing 284 people over that 13-year period – 66 percent of total fatalities. That’s despite the breed accounting for just 6.5% of the total U.S. dog population.

I was also surprised to see the average dog bite cost $18,000, and there's something like a million dog bites per year, then perhaps dog liability insurance should be mandatory.

@Lutalo, I'm wondering how you'll deny that pitbulls are dangerous. I'm going to be amused at your mental gymnastics.

You flatter yourself greatly to think that I would engage in mental gymnastics merely for your amusement.

I realize that you believe the data adds something new to the conversation; however, it does not. Data is only a partial snapshot of a situation. Since data is incapable of providing it's own context, the strongly opinionated are usually the first to misrepresent it to verify a heavily flawed premise; namely, that pit bulls are innately more prone to vicious attack than other dogs.

This imagined innate "compulsion" to attack things leads to the reasoning that pitbull are incapable of proper socialization. 

It seems to me that the proportional quantity of unprovoked attacks would be more salient to demonstrating innate proneness than the fatal outcomes; since, fatalities represent merely .000021% over the 13 year period that you describe (based on a million bites per year that you presented). What this data shows is that fatalities from dog bites in general is indeed quite rare. 

Fundamentally,  in my opinion, you presented the wrong data to make your point that Pit Bulls are innately more dangerous (more prone to attack) than other breeds.

If you read my post, you will notice that I do recognize that over the 40+ years that I have been associated with the pit Bull breed I have witnessed it over the decades become very popular with the more odious elements of society whose association with the breed enhances their macho, or criminal brand image. I do believe your data points somewhat to the outcomes of this unfortunate marriage.

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On 5/3/2019 at 4:54 AM, Dingfelder said:

Dogs are not humans

Indeed they are not. Humans are far more dangerous and aggressive than dogs.

On 5/3/2019 at 4:54 AM, Dingfelder said:

verified as aggressive by breeders from random to top of the AKC and similar.  It doesn't make them a bad thing.  It does make them more suitable to some tasks than others.

I come from a breeder and terrier-enthusiast family. I know of no breeder who would agree with this point. I have truly had fun with this off topic conversation, but the fun has worn thin at this point. You should stop using words like: "verified" when you don't have the information to support it. 

The problem that I see is that you have you confused "gameness" with "aggression." So let me clarify them for you:

1. Gameness - Willingness, persistence, determination, and courage. 

2. Aggression - A hostile or violent attitude or behavior towards others.

Gameness is the single most important quality that terrier-enthusiasts adore and admire about their breeds.

Aggression is hated by breeders of terriers. Aggressive dogs are usually culled. 

It is the dog's gameness that aggressive humans have exploited to satisfy their violent lusts: dogfighting, boar, bull, and lion baiting, rat baiting, flushing foxes and rabbits from holes, etc..... These activities are human inventions. 

Aggression in a dog is a fear response; a territorial defense mechanism. Many of them have been abused or encouraged to show aggression by their stupid owners. This is why aggression in a dog is marked by threat displays: baring of the teeth, raising of the hairs to appear bigger and more threatening, pointing up or back of the ears, growling, etc..... You will always see these happening when a dog feels threatened. When see threat display you are looking at a dog in an aggressive state. 

 

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On 5/15/2019 at 12:13 PM, Lutalo said:

If you read my post,

LOL dead give-away and fatal mistake. 

P.S.:  My family owned a quarantine, kennel, pet shop, and pet boarding facility.  I've been involved in pets longer than you have and much more deeply.  Maybe longer than you've been alive.  My mother is a national and international judge in rally, agility, and obedience.  She's off to judge in Vienna next week, free and pre-paid.  We've trained in scent-tracking and herding, etc.  She has multiple championships in everything you could think of.

Your anecdotes do not run that deep, nor counter to the basics of breeding.  Your denial of the basic nature of terriers speaks worlds about your willingness to embrace denial.

Does that help your cause?  I'd suggest quite the opposite.  It just makes you look woefully out of your depth at best.  That, and your approach otherwise, is very counter-productive.  It may fool some of the people some of the time, but there is no way you will convince most people unless you come from a more sound and reasonable place.  Yours is a very counter-productive approach.  Do reconsider.  Passion is cute and all, but it's not even close to what you need to defend your point and advance your agenda.  

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