Tips for sitting down on MSuperX [MSX] with seat?

[GQS]

I recently got my MSX and it took a few days to get used to coming from the mten3 form factor for over a year.  I just got the MSX seat for it and it looks and feels good.  I wanted to get tips on how to sit down on the MSX.  I mean what is the best way to do it and things to watch out for. 

So far, I am able to touch my butt to the seat but as soon as I apply any pressure, the wheel swings left and right like it wants to kill me.  It wobbles and is fairly unstable butt driving the wheel. 

Give me advice to help me fulfill my dream of riding the MSX sitting down cross legged with a food platter on my lap eating a burger and drink at 25mph. 

[houseofjob]

If you're an average to taller height person, the MSX is miserable and can be dangerous to sit on IMHO: there basically is no height for you to use your legs to turn and maneuver, like driving a cramped car where your legs cannot spread out. This becomes better if you can obtain the much taller MSV3 seat that is now discontinued.

But, in general for seated riding:

• reach your arm down and grab/lean against the front of the seat first, before you even sit down.
• once your arm is down, sit the majority of your weight on your bum against the seat, heels tilting up in the air with toes on the front of the pedals. DO NOT try to keep your total weight on the pedals, as seated is about the weight on Top of the wheel, not the pedals.

[Steven D Wheeler]

The stock MSX seat isnt very comfortable.

To fix this I added a few layers of yoga mat cut to fit the seat then wrapped it in Gorilla tape lots of it.

Then it was cushy and good for long rides.

I am 6'3" 225lbs and I sit on my MSX with a bit of practice.

I learned seated riding on my Monster.

I find the MSX more nimble than the Monster seated.

I steer with my ankles but your arms do play a factor in balance.

To accelerate fast lean forward and stick both your arms out in front of you.

 I call this move the Superman.

[who_the]

Two times I'm glad to be 5-foot-6, 1) whenever I fly and 2) sitting on my MSX. Have you tried starting from a seated position to get the feel of riding while sitting down? Going from standing to sitting while moving took a bit of practice but I somehow didn't experience the wobbles. When I sit down I put left hand near the headlight to steady myself as I "transform" from standing to sitting. Seems to help.

[stephen]

2 hours ago, Steven D Wheeler said:

To fix this I added a few layers of yoga mat cut to fit the seat then wrapped it in Gorilla tape lots of it

Please show us a pic😊

[mrelwood]

I’m 193cm (6’5”?) tall, and as I’d purchased the seat I did try to learn riding seated last summer. Must’ve looked hilarious. First several times I was just oscillating horribly as the wheel accelerated-braked-accelerated etc. The way I gained enough control on the steering to be able to ride for a few meters was to have a rail, fence or something to take support from.

I strongly urge everybody not to try seated riding sitting down at speed for the first time! I can’t see how it could end well, as the steering behaviour is quite different.

My motorcycle riding pants are not very agile with large knee protectors and my legs are quite stiff as is, so hunching down that low didn’t give me the relaxed sensation of riding seated. So I gave up, and decided I might try it again, but not before I make the seat about a foot taller.

[GQS]

I tend to agree that having your knees bent at 90+ degrees does not allow for a lot of leg based control.  Raising up the seat sounds like the way to go.  The tip about using your hand is perfect, I will do this to stabilize. 

The MsuperV3 seat is no longer available anywhere sadly, otherwise that seems to add like 6 inches to the seat height.  I was told that the Msuperv3 seat fits well on the MSX but that it was made from a harder material and less comfortable than the MSX seat. 

[Steven D Wheeler]

13 hours ago, stephen said:

Please show us a pic😊

The one on the top has a bit more foam so its thicker and better than the one on the bottom which is thinner.

They are both better than stock MSX seat.

Not all yoga mat are the same and yield different results.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Steven D Wheeler

[houseofjob]

17 hours ago, Steven D Wheeler said:

I find the MSX more nimble than the Monster seated..

More nimble than this? 

 

17 hours ago, Steven D Wheeler said:

To accelerate fast lean forward and stick both your arms out in front of you.

 I call this move the Superman.

Argh!, Please don't do this, it's asking for a faceplant IMHO.

For better acceleration, either stiff arm the front seat to hop your butt up to the front, or utilize your stiff arm on the front of the seat (harder to do on the MSX due to lack of seat real estate). 

And like regular standing riding, you should never have both sides of your body leaning forward, always one side back for stability.

[Steven D Wheeler]

I've ridden an 84v 2400 & a 100v Monster seated for over two years and I've never yet face planted a Superman, maybe others?

I know what I'm asking for and I live every time.

We all have our own way, you have the stiff arm which IMHO might make ya face plant?

 

[houseofjob]

19 minutes ago, Steven D Wheeler said:

I've ridden an 84v 2400 & a 100v Monster seated for over two years and I've never yet face planted a Superman, maybe others?

I know what I'm asking for and I live every time.

We all have our own way, you have the stiff arm which IMHO might make ya face plant?

Agree to disagree then.

Feel free to do whatever you want, of course, but if you're suggesting others to do this, I absolutely advise them against doing so. Even with motor powers equal to the Monster, all it takes is doing this maneuver while unexpectedly hitting a deep enough pothole, say at night, to run into issues, God forbid.

Faceplants IMHO happen when they shouldn't happen to the degrees I've seen before, online and in person. Riders believe they need to lean both sides of their body for better acceleration when this, in my experience, is absolutely untrue: you can lean one side while the other side hangs back, so the net weight balance over the wheel is still relatively over middle center, either standing or seated.

And when I stiff arm for seated acceleration, it is always coupled by reaching my other arm back, again, so my sum weight is stacked over the center of the wheel.

..... and if years is a qualifier for you, I have 3 years seated riding on several different versions of KS18's and the Monster, without issue.

Edited April 10, 2019 by houseofjob

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

And when I stiff arm for seated acceleration, it is always coupled by reaching my other arm back, again, so my sum weight is stacked over the center of the wheel.

I don’t get it. If your ”sum weight” (=center of gravity?) is still on top of the center of the wheel, why does the wheel accelerate?

[houseofjob]

13 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t get it. If your ”sum weight” (=center of gravity?) is still on top of the center of the wheel, why does the wheel accelerate?

Because the wheel is the one leaning more in one turn direction or the other (ie. diagonally), instead of your body (albeit, there is still some net body lean FWIW, but not as dramatically offset as a full "superlean"). Tip toes and heel angling can compensate for the dipping wheel when riding standing.

(good question BTW, never fully thought of that angle from what I intuitively settled on for now in terms of technique)

Edited April 11, 2019 by houseofjob

[stephen]

9 hours ago, Steven D Wheeler said:

The one on the top has a bit more foam so its thicker and better than the one on the bottom which is thinner.

They are both better than stock MSX seat.

Not all yoga mat are the same and yield different results.

Thx for the pics i might mod mine a little ,i keep slipping off the seat it's a tad small and low but it's fun 😊

[yourtoys7]

I did own monster for some time and defiantly monster is more comfortable, but its all about adjusting..... both wheels/ seats can be adjusted to.

[DavidInTaiwan]

On 4/11/2019 at 6:56 AM, houseofjob said:

Agree to disagree then.

Feel free to do whatever you want, of course, but if you're suggesting others to do this, I absolutely advise them against doing so. Even with motor powers equal to the Monster, all it takes is doing this maneuver while unexpectedly hitting a deep enough pothole, say at night, to run into issues, God forbid.

Faceplants IMHO happen when they shouldn't happen to the degrees I've seen before, online and in person. Riders believe they need to lean both sides of their body for better acceleration when this, in my experience, is absolutely untrue: you can lean one side while the other side hangs back, so the net weight balance over the wheel is still relatively over middle center, either standing or seated.

And when I stiff arm for seated acceleration, it is always coupled by reaching my other arm back, again, so my sum weight is stacked over the center of the wheel.

..... and if years is a qualifier for you, I have 3 years seated riding on several different versions of KS18's and the Monster, without issue.

 

On 4/11/2019 at 6:56 AM, houseofjob said:

Agree to disagree then.

Feel free to do whatever you want, of course, but if you're suggesting others to do this, I absolutely advise them against doing so. Even with motor powers equal to the Monster, all it takes is doing this maneuver while unexpectedly hitting a deep enough pothole, say at night, to run into issues, God forbid.

Faceplants IMHO happen when they shouldn't happen to the degrees I've seen before, online and in person. Riders believe they need to lean both sides of their body for better acceleration when this, in my experience, is absolutely untrue: you can lean one side while the other side hangs back, so the net weight balance over the wheel is still relatively over middle center, either standing or seated.

And when I stiff arm for seated acceleration, it is always coupled by reaching my other arm back, again, so my sum weight is stacked over the center of the wheel.

..... and if years is a qualifier for you, I have 3 years seated riding on several different versions of KS18's and the Monster, without issue.

I love the advice and analysis! I do have one question though...

My understanding is that you suggest keeping half of your body back in order to keep your center of gravity over the middle of the unicycle so you don’t face plant,which is cool,  but I’ve always thought that acceleration and deceleration were determined by whether the center of gravity is forward or aft of the vertical centerpoint.  If that's the case, it seems that no matter how you keep your center of gravity over the vertical center, you're not going anywhere.  

 

It seems like the best way of avoiding faceplant may be conservative acceleration combined with awareness of the road surface.

Any thoughts?

 

David

[Aneta]

2 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

I’ve always thought that acceleration and deceleration were determined by whether the center of gravity is forward or aft of the vertical centerpoint.  If that's the case, it seems that no matter how you keep your center of gravity over the vertical center, you're not going anywhere.  

 

It seems like the best way of avoiding faceplant may be conservative acceleration combined with awareness of the road surface.

Any thoughts?

EUC only accelerates/decelerates according to the angle of its shell relative to calibrated neutral position. It doesn't know where your center of gravity is. All it has is this dumb accelerometer/gyro sensor the size of a rice grain; it doesn't have eyes. It's up to you to follow with your CoG the movements of EUC.

Various methods of acceleration are nothing but different ways to tilt your EUC while maintaining a stable standing position.

The best way of avoiding faceplants is understanding @zeke's graph:

 

[houseofjob]

7 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

I love the advice and analysis! I do have one question though...

Thanks! (are you really in Taiwan? if so, I envy you for the food)

7 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

My understanding is that you suggest keeping half of your body back in order to keep your center of gravity over the middle of the unicycle so you don’t face plant,which is cool,  but I’ve always thought that acceleration and deceleration were determined by whether the center of gravity is forward or aft of the vertical centerpoint.  If that's the case, it seems that no matter how you keep your center of gravity over the vertical center, you're not going anywhere. 

The answer is in incorporating the left-right / side-to-side pivoting of the wheel body, which is possible because the gyroscope only balances within the EUC tire plane, not any other plane.

If you can do safely, I suggest you try (carefully!) to press the left forefoot/toe-side as you make left turn. This will be harder if your leg hugs the wheel body (wheel cannot fall/angle independently of your legs), so I suggest slightly flaring your heels a little wider than your forefeet relative to the EUC body.

If done correctly, you'll notice an increased acceleration phenomenon. This is because you are utilizing more of the force of gravity in the fall of the wheel side-to-side with you on it.

 

In other words, I am incorporating this falling plane force of gravity into the acceleration press.

.... or ....

I am letting the wheel do most of the motion, instead of my body (there is still some angling of the body, but relative center of gravity is still near the center of mass of the wheel).

 

I know this might be hard to conceptualize, but I assure you it works. Because of the naysayers, I am in the midst of formulating a very careful YouTube instructional explanation of all this, but in the meantime, here it is in action:

7 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

It seems like the best way of avoiding faceplant may be conservative acceleration combined with awareness of the road surface.

With my technique above (again, I always reiterate, it's just modified ski technique, as I've skied all my life), I can easily alternate each side-to-side for a very aggressive acceleration, even on the Monster pictured (the alternation gives momentary respite to the wheel power demand with each "stroke").

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by houseofjob

[Mono]

8 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

I’ve always thought that acceleration and deceleration were determined by whether the center of gravity is forward or aft of the vertical centerpoint.

Good thinking 

8 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

 If that's the case, it seems that no matter how you keep your center of gravity over the vertical center, you're not going anywhere.

Sounds about spot on.

8 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

It seems like the best way of avoiding faceplant may be conservative acceleration combined with awareness of the road surface.

for sure, and flexible knees and the provision to reflexively bent them even further in case

8 hours ago, DavidInTaiwan said:

Any thoughts?

no more

[Mono]

On 4/9/2019 at 8:49 PM, GQS said:

I recently got my MSX and it took a few days to get used to coming from the mten3 form factor for over a year.  I just got the MSX seat for it and it looks and feels good.  I wanted to get tips on how to sit down on the MSX.  I mean what is the best way to do it and things to watch out for. 

So far, I am able to touch my butt to the seat but as soon as I apply any pressure, the wheel swings left and right like it wants to kill me.  It wobbles and is fairly unstable butt driving the wheel. 

Give me advice to help me fulfill my dream of riding the MSX sitting down cross legged with a food platter on my lap eating a burger and drink at 25mph. 

I started practicing seated riding not so long ago, so I have a fresh memory. I started practicing from being seated rather than by trying to sit down. Compared to learning how to ride in the first place or to ride backwards it took very little time to be able to go straight for 20m-or-so, less than ten minutes. Pushing the heels against the shell side helps to bring down wobbles, but it's also all about getting sensitive to "catch" the wheel under the butt and not let it tilt away.

Next I found that standing up is much easier than sitting down, pretty much a first try thing and knowing this helps to be more confident in transitioning.

Sitting down is the mounting of seated riding, still much easier though. The main trick is probably to commit and not hesitate, of course at very moderate speed, as it may not be a first try thing. I also bow and touch the seat with the hands first (one hand behind and one hand in front) and then rotate the hip down and the shoulder up when sitting down. All to take with a grain of salt as I can't pretend to know what the best techniques would be. I only have done it for a few dozen times and I am definitely not ready for riding on streets.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Mono