Ninebot or King Song?

[itsme_michael]

Hi Guys!  So some of you might have seen my post on facebook, but for those who haven't:  I've been researching euc's for ages, and finally decided to pull the trigger at the beginning of August when the new King Songs were coming out.  I contacted Jason at wheelgo (he seemed to be the only one with the 800W at the time) who said that, because I was located in Canada, where there aren't any local resellers, my best bet was to contact Tina directly and get one straight from the factory - so that's what I did.  I went ahead and paid for the wheel, but I asked them to hold off on shipping it until the new firmware came out, because I wanted to make sure I got the latest and greatest.  A few weeks ago, Tina let me know that they were sending out my wheel.  To make a long story short, my euc made it as far as Hong Kong, and no further.  Tina doesn't have the experience or the resources to figure out the shipping situation, and she basically just couldn't get it to me.  I hemmed and hawed for a while (as you may have seen from my facebook post), but based on the advice from you guys, I asked for my money back.  Tina agreed to that given the circumstances, and apparently I should be getting that money back at some point here shortly.  So I'm basically back where I started.
 

Once I figured out that King Song couldn't get me my euc directly, my knee-jerk reaction was to find a reseller who could get me one.  But as I've had a few days to reflect, I'm wondering if maybe King Song is just the wrong fit for my needs, and that ninebot might be a better option.  I've decided to take this shipping snafu and use it to reconsider my options.  So, that said, I'm torn between ninebot and King Song, and am hoping for some guidance.  I realize that King Song is WAY more powerful, but there are also many things that make me lean towards ninebot.  Here's a pro/con list of everything that Sticks out to me:
 

Ninebot Pros:

- 16" - I intend to use my wheel mainly for commuting and pleasure cruising, not for tricks, sports, etc, and I feel that a 16" wheel would be a better fit than the King Song's 14".

- Reliability - Kings Song seems not to have ironed out the kinks yet.  Between issues with speed control and tiltback/tilting forward, vibrating at high speed, etc, my impression is that there are a lot of bugs left in the system.  Supposedly this batch coming out will have them fixed, but I have my doubts.  This is OK if you're willing to roll the dice, but for my first wheel I'm wondering if something ultra-dependable like a ninebot would be better.  I'm not electrically handy, and don't know if I would feel comfortable changing out a main board on my own.

- Support - based on my experience with King Song, I'm starting to really appreciate the value of local support and a large infrastructure/warranty system.  I feel like if I had a ninebot that malfunctioned, I'd have much better success with a local reseller and ninebot than might be the case if I bought a King Song from someone halfway across the world. 

 

Ninebot Cons

- Handle - let's face it - the handle doesn't work.  I don't love the idea of sticking a trolley handle on (although I might end up doing just that), so a functional handle is a really important asset for me.

- Range - for my regular commuting needs, I don't need more than about 10km round trip, so the ninebot should be fine in that regard.  But I hate the idea of having to cut a long weekend ride short due to low battery.

- Speed - Not being able to go as fast as you want sucks.  This is my first wheel, so I don't have a great frame of reference, but I can imagine that the ninebot is a bit pokey.

 

King Song Pros:

- Speed/Power/Agility - I don't think there's anyone who would argue that the King Song isn't the better-performing machine.  It's faster, stronger, and more powerful.  I live in a city full of hills, and although I'm not heavy (about 72 kg), it would be great to have something with power to spare.  As far as performance goes, it's King Song all the way.

- Headlights/Brake Lights - I LOVE the idea of this for commuting.  It's so much more elegant than wearing a headlamp or uglying up a ninebot by bolting an external lamp to it.  Because commuting is a primary need for me, the built in lights are a pretty huge advantage.

- Handle - I love the big, sturdy handle.  Certainly nicer than the 'bot.

 

King Song Cons

- 14" - the pavement around here isn't great, and while I'm sure it's do-able, I don't love the idea of having to have hawk eyes all the time when I'm out and about for every crack in the pavement.

- Waterproofing - Has anyone actually USED that usb port?  That and the speakers seem like prime targets for water infiltration to me, and I have concerns about water getting in.  It's a wet climate here, so that could be a real issue.

- Reliability - As I said above, it just seems like every week there's some other major issue, whether it's the tiltback, vibrating at high speeds, etc. etc. etc. - King Song is definitely at the bleeding edge of technology, but there's an inherent risk in experimentation.  As a first wheel, I worry about getting a lemon.

- Getting the wheel / support - If I ordered a ninebot, I could have it here in a day or two.  With all the shipping issues, who knows when I would actually receive my King Song - and then there are import taxes, etc. to think about.  In the case that my unit is faulty in some way, the options are more limited in terms of getting help.
 

So ANYWAY, that's where I'm at.  I would appreciate the insight of people who own both ninebots and king songs, but all opinions are welcome.
 

Thanks guys!!!

[Donafello]

I feel your pain. Im in the states and got very lucky that a forum member who lived 30 minutes from me had a couple of the units i wanted and Im so glad I made the purchase. I started doing research into what I would be buying about 3 months ago. Based on what I saw and read online I totally was sold on a kingsong 18in 800w 680wh. I was also considering the gotway msuper at the time but getting one to the states would have been touch so I decided against that. I just didnot want to go through the hoops of dealing with someone online in china. Just to many things could go wrong. Being electricunicyclereviews.com was selling the 18in kingsong that was going to be my choice because it was just the easiest way to purchase. Now I was so close to ordering the kingsong and then started to hear the troubles people were experiencing. Now they might be isolated things with certain units, but I also live in a city and could not deal with any tiltback or having to shut down unit for a while eto get going again. So I basically put everything on hold until I was able to get a msuper sent to me. Thats when JohnC415 reached out to me and the rest is history. Im in love with my unit. Just today I road 20 hard,hard  miles through city streets and up and down hills and never had one issue. I also have someone that has a ninebot and while its not the fastest unit, he sure loves it and seems to be holding up well. Being this is your first wheel I would deff recommend getting the ninebot or maybe holding out a little and see what King song does. I deff going to be buying a kingsong in the future but not until I see more reviews on the 18in model. Also I don't know your budjet but if the msuper is a beast and I highly recommended this wheel. It was hard to learn on it but once I did I'm so happy I went with this unit. If I went with a ninebot I know by now I would want something faster so I just cut to the chase. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I think no matter what you get your gonna love it and always want something better.

 

BTW does anyone hear have any info on the Kingsong 18in? I know a few people hear have ordered them?

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

Hi!  KS 14" 500W 340Wh owner here. I used to ride a 16" X8, and I've ridden Ninebot E a few times as well, so I can comment on the difference in the ride.  As far as shipping options goes, yes there are issues shipping from China due to battery restrictions on overseas flights. You are right to consider a reseller, and I would recommend Kevin Lee as he is experienced in dealing with these new overseas shipping woes and found a way to get me my KS to the west coast U.S. in a couple weeks. His English is top notch, he accepts PayPal, and is easily reachable on Facebook.

As far as the differences go, you already have it figured out. You just need to decide which things are more important to you.  There IS a noticeable difference in riding a 16" wheel over uneven pavement and bumps in general.  However, 14" is more than capable at handling this, and I ride my KS 14" as a daily commuter to work on shitty neighborhood sidewalks. 14" is more nimble, and I do feel more agile and confident near crowded pedestrian areas and obstacles on my path. Again, both size wheels are fine for all general tasks like this, but you can tell the difference. 

As far as power/torque goes, I don't think you'd be disappointed with Ninebot. Its a very high quality, solid ride with plenty of power. But there is a difference, especially with speed. And for what it's worth, mine does not shake at high speeds. And keep in mind mine is the 500W version so 800W would give even more of a boost with acceleration and torque. 

I will also say that I enjoy and use the headlight FAR more than I thought. Especially this time of year as I'm starting to leave work in the dark. Great feature. Not that you can't add a light onto the ninebot, but it's far from elegant and negates some of that beauty selling point in the first place.

[KaleOsaurusRex]

I had so much trouble getting units shipped to Canada, that I stopped offering King Song units on my site to customers up there. However, I have had a couple people order machines and use the service called Kinek to get theirs.

[Mikel JT]

Hey  everybody.

Im in the exact same situation now

any new feedback? Im doubting between the ks 14c 340 kw and the Ninebot e+

[Cloud]

1 hour ago, Mikel JT said:

Hey  everybody.

Im in the exact same situation now

any new feedback? Im doubting between the ks 14c 340 kw and the Ninebot e+

I personally woukd prefer to ride kingsong because of its power which comes in handly considering my weight. However a 16" wheel has its own advantages in terms of smoothness of ride. Ninebot is a pretty high quality wheel and a lot of people love it. Another plus of ninebot may be more service centers and better availability of parts? I guess it depends on where you live. The service network of kingsong is developing also, with the distributors like we have on the forum you shoukd be in good hands if you go for kingsong.

 I bought mine from @Jason McNeil, he will take care of you in terms of the warranty if god forbid something happens.

It depends on whats important to you. Ninebot looks better than kingsong 14" , but kingsong is faster, more powerful and agile. 

[adhermes]

2 hours ago, Mikel JT said:

Hey  everybody.

Im in the exact same situation now

any new feedback? Im doubting between the ks 14c 340 kw and the Ninebot e+

Boo on the ninebot, trust me. My friend just got wrecked by a Ninebot E+ which just completely failed. The King Song is better in every measurable way EXCEPT for looks, where the Ninebot clearly shines. 

 

Get with @Jason McNeil . He has 840wh 14" King Song 800w in stock, super fast shipping. You can't go wrong, plus the guy knows his stuff. I personally own the KS14C 840wh and an IPS LHOTZ 340wh, both great wheels. 

[Citi Wheel]

Having owned a generic 14", a Ninebot E+ and an msuper I would say I liked the ride of the 18 inch wheel was the best. The con of most 18 inch wheels is they're too fast and if they ever shut down you could get seriously hurt if you're not wearing body armor level of protection. I honestly think for this reason, my next purchase will be the Solowheel xtreme (when I can afford it).

[houseofjob]

5 minutes ago, logos122 said:

Having owned a generic 14", a Ninebot E+ and an msuper I would say I liked the ride of the 18 inch wheel was the best. The con of most 18 inch wheels is they're too fast and if they ever shut down you could get seriously hurt if you're not wearing body armor level of protection. I honestly think for this reason, my next purchase will be the Solowheel xtreme (when I can afford it).

I second this, 18 inch is the best ride currently (owned NB1E+, currently own KS-18A, IPS Zero). I actually think 20 or 22 inches would be just the perfect size, and if KingSong made this, I would trade in my 18" in a heartbeat.

[goldenmeme]

I was having the same debate, and had settled pretty firmly on a KS 14" and was all set to buy... when I read a review for the new 16" that talked about how even the 16" inch's weatherproofing (which was better than the 14") isn't great. And my city had had rain for two weeks straight.

I ultimately decided on Ninebot E+ because it's the only EU I've seen so far that even really mentioned weatherproofing anywhere. I need the one most likely not to die from water damage after a week of riding it in a perpetually damp city.

My other major concern in buying was that my work commute includes an 11% incline and I needed something that could handle that. I'm moderately confidant the Ninebot will be able to handle that, though likely not quite as confidently as a KS might. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow, so we'll see.

[Nevin@Tec-toyz.com]

How long is that incline?

[goldenmeme]

Only one block. Before anyone asks I'm 155lbs. It may be pushing it; we'll see. If so, I can ride a couple of blocks out of my way to get to a longer but more gradual incline.

[Nevin@Tec-toyz.com]

you should be fine, your only 10lbs heavier than me. It shouldn't over heat for one block. I believe if I remember correctly some KS riders saying it takes about 10mins of riding up an incline til it overheats.

[OliverH]

6 minutes ago, NevNutz said:

you should be fine, your only 10lbs heavier than me. It shouldn't over heat for one block. I believe if I remember correctly some KS riders saying it takes about 10mins of riding up an incline til it overheats.

But it was also quoted that there is a hardware change made that the overheating not happen any more. The coming generation will also get a heat fan as stated by KS on CES last month.

[Nevin@Tec-toyz.com]

@OliverH didn't see the hardware update yet.

Yup, I did see that heat fan from CES. That might work. I thought Tina said its not official yet. I would think that its a bit counter productive though. Because you are drawing more power from the wheel. they should go crazy with the heat sinks like Vee did with his board.

[OliverH]

13 minutes ago, NevNutz said:

@OliverH didn't see the hardware update yet.

Yup, I did see that heat fan from CES. That might work. I thought Tina said its not official yet. I would think that its a bit counter productive though. Because you are drawing more power from the wheel. they should go crazy with the heat sinks like Vee did with his board.

In general: It's like in the good times of 3D graphics cards in PCs. They run the card on the limit, needed additional power connectors, heat pipes, big heat sinks. Heat is inefficiency. 

Drive a Ninebot at 20 degree Celsius and you can watch how temp goes up. If you force it, it will slow down at one point to get a break to cool down.

I think Vee has rising the voltage and is always driving on the maximum.

[Mikel JT]

@cloud  . Yeah i guess the perfect UC doesnt existe. 14" fits in my gym locker and shouldnt be too heavy to carry around upstairs and stuff, so in that sense its handy, but the offcourse de 18" is more of a limousine...you can almost lay on top of it lol , with the built in seat (that I think is soo cool) even thought I wonder if its really confortable or not. @houseofjob do you use the seat often??

@adhermes   and then comes the new lhotz into play with the wider Wheel for better grip and stability...I Heard good stuff about it. Althought, I dont know but I dont trust IPS that much, plus The looks are too "tunning" it looks like a Too Fast Too Furious japanese vehicle lol. If you had to choose to stay with one UC would you stick to the KS or the  lhotz?

People, I wish I could buy one of each. But this sport is Sooo Expensive!!!

Best regards n thx to y´all

[Jurgen]

@Mikel JT try to choose size first (smaller is lighter/agile, bigger is more heavy/stable) 16" is a good compromise to start with,

estimate range/speed = batt size you'll need (bigger is always better)

 

 

[OliverH]

On 3. Februar 2016 at 7:43 AM, goldenmeme said:

I was having the same debate, and had settled pretty firmly on a KS 14" and was all set to buy... when I read a review for the new 16" that talked about how even the 16" inch's weatherproofing (which was better than the 14") isn't great. And my city had had rain for two weeks straight.

I ultimately decided on Ninebot E+ because it's the only EU I've seen so far that even really mentioned weatherproofing anywhere. I need the one most likely not to die from water damage after a week of riding it in a perpetually damp city.

My other major concern in buying was that my work commute includes an 11% incline and I needed something that could handle that. I'm moderately confidant the Ninebot will be able to handle that, though likely not quite as confidently as a KS might. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow, so we'll see.

Short answer: Go with the KS. The e+ will maybe show overheating and keep in mind the Tipp forward problem on the 9b1. I've a 9b1 e at home and it has not enough power and the battery is way to small.

[SlowMo]

The new batch of KS-14C's are more weatherproof. The Ninebot by any means cannot match the power of the KS-14C's. Any EUC with 500w and above motor could easily handle 11 deg. inclines. And  the KS-14c's are reputed to withstand sudden accelerations unlike the Ninebot which dips the rider to the ground.

[SuperSport]

For what it's worth, on my NineBot One E+, I've ridden a 22 degree incline for one block (Back Side of Lombard Street in San Francisco).  I weigh 163lbs and with gear (Clothes, Backpack, Charger, Tools, etc) close to 170lbs.  I rode this hill with GotWays and they can go faster and further, but the NineBot does just fine, I was even able to accelerate if wanted.

And, just the other day, I climbed my Driveway for the first time.  Due to my inexperience, I failed a few times, but have now done it twice, and can replicate whenever I like.  It's 25 degrees, but only about 100 feet.

Another member rides his E+ on 30 degree hills all the time in SF. He weighs closer to 140-150lbs or so, I'm guessing.  He's never had issues.

[checho]

On 2/11/2016 at 9:47 AM, SuperSport said:

For what it's worth, on my NineBot One E+, I've ridden a 22 degree incline for one block (Back Side of Lombard Street in San Francisco).  I weigh 163lbs and with gear (Clothes, Backpack, Charger, Tools, etc) close to 170lbs.  I rode this hill with GotWays and they can go faster and further, but the NineBot does just fine, I was even able to accelerate if wanted.

And, just the other day, I climbed my Driveway for the first time.  Due to my inexperience, I failed a few times, but have now done it twice, and can replicate whenever I like.  It's 25 degrees, but only about 100 feet.

Another member rides his E+ on 30 degree hills all the time in SF. He weighs closer to 140-150lbs or so, I'm guessing.  He's never had issues.

There are no 30 deegree hills in San Francisco, and I can assure you that no unicycle can go such a hill starting at speed 0, like most you are confusing degrees with gradients. The steepest in San Francisco is 40% gradient which is about 22 deegrees.

 

[SuperSport]

7 minutes ago, checho said:

There are no 30 deegree hills in San Francisco, and I can assure you that no unicycle can go such a hill starting at speed 0, like most you are confusing degrees with gradients. The steepest in San Francisco is 40% gradient which is about 22 deegrees.

I stand corrected, AGAIN.    What I find interesting though is that when I place my iPhone on my driveway, it reads 25 degrees.  So, I'm guessing that is correct, and I climb that regularly now with no issues other than struggling to keep balance.  I believe the NineBot would even climb steeper if needed because I'm able to accelerate up my driveway if I want.  No, I don't start on it from a dead start, but I see no reason it would not work, since electric motors have all their power available at all times.  I'll have to test it and see if it's possible.  Not sure 'I' can start from that angle though, it's pretty steep.

Oh, and getting nitty gritty, Bradford St is actually 41% Grade.

[checho]

8 hours ago, SuperSport said:

I stand corrected, AGAIN.    What I find interesting though is that when I place my iPhone on my driveway, it reads 25 degrees.  So, I'm guessing that is correct, and I climb that regularly now with no issues other than struggling to keep balance.  I believe the NineBot would even climb steeper if needed because I'm able to accelerate up my driveway if I want.  No, I don't start on it from a dead start, but I see no reason it would not work, since electric motors have all their power available at all times.  I'll have to test it and see if it's possible.  Not sure 'I' can start from that angle though, it's pretty steep.

Oh, and getting nitty gritty, Bradford St is actually 41% Grade.

You are correct it is 41% grade on Bradford. 

Starting from a dead start provides useful information for forum members if a unicycle can climb a given slope sustainable not depending on momentun. 

As of now most unicycles can not go up steep slopes with large weight and that is a big problem for large riders.

From a dead stop a forum member tried a gotway msuper 18 ms at 17 degrees and it failed. 

I have tried 12 deegree slopes and X8, Q3, and ks18a 1100w all have failed, the ks could go up the slope severely overheating and the motherboard burned, I am working on a cooling fix which I will post when done, the Q3 or X8 could not go up.

I am personally waiting for the specs of the new msuper v3 high torque to be released.

When measuring an incline with a phone you need to calibrate the phone using a level first, and there is a large error of -+3 degrees, the reason is that the phone has a length of about 10cm and streets are uneven with rough surfaces, an small incline due to road imperfection will result in a few degrees off, a more accurate way of doing this would be using a board 1m in leght and have the phone attach to the board and the reading will be much more accurate.

But the largest error in measurement is not due to the leght of the phone but by not calibrating the phone first.

When I see comments like all unicycles can handle slopes of 30 degrees I find them highly misleading since out of the unicycles I own none can handle a 12 degree slope reliably , I weight 110kg.

I have been doing tests on slopes, I recently ordered a ninebot 1 p pro that supposedly has the improved control board and will be doing slope tests once I get it.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

2 hours ago, checho said:

When I see comments like all unicycles can handle slopes of 30 degrees I find them highly misleading since out of the unicycles I own none can handle a 12 degree slope reliably , I weight 110kg.

I have been doing tests on slopes, I recently ordered a ninebot 1 p pro that supposedly has the improved control board and will be doing slope tests once I get it.

I'd be interested to see those test results! 

Being about the same weight and living in a beautiful hilly area, I often find myself wanting more power...