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I got a board, i'll see if i can put it into a new minipro today sometime. Don't want to put it into my daily driver just yet and lose my history. 

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11 hours ago, FreeRide said:

 

ACE3FF95-9B69-4219-A6F7-F370C236E7F3.jpeg

 

 

Ah, I see your screenshot. My 4.4.6 app has everything in it except the "Limited 17Km/h" text. I just double-checked. Never mind, I will look at its speed in an hour or two...

:)

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Posted (edited)

So far so good, but I only got to the point of power-up.  The install was pretty straight forward, but the motor wires are longer than they need to be ( and those on the stock board), causing the need for some extra bends which is not desirable on these wires.  Why that is, I have no idea.  My stock board was 2016, this one is April 2019.

A few other minor QC issues with the board, but the MiniPro powered up and balanced, so I need to stop there, have supper and then I'll put on some extra gear and see if there is any improvements.  This is a new segway so clean stock tires, unlike my daily-driver.  

It looked like a factory board to me, I didn't see any signs of any manual soldering; I mostly looked at the processor.  The board said firmware 1.8 on the silk screen but, we'll see what it says when I connect. 

Crossing my fingers, as I need a few of these if they work well.

 

Edited by FreeRide

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Posted (edited)

Small update.  While the pork chops were cooking I completed the basic training, The new board made me repeat that.  My App said the speed was limited to 17km/hr, but in reality it was limited to 10 km/h as per basic training.  I completed the 1km initial limited period, and it let me remove the 10km/h limit manually with the limit button; however the App still says the speed limit is 17km/h, but I have a feeling with this firmware that is never going to change.  I confirmed the limit was removed with the switch, but I had on no safety gear so I did not even attempt 15km/h.  This new minipro I'm using was a refurb, and it seems to drop bluetooth connection all the time.  A real pain when it drops it during your basic training.  Luckily once I get going I never connect the app anymore, just once at the beginning and once at the end, or before a hot battery swap.

App is reporting firmware 1.1.1

Activation date is shown as: 2015-12-06.  

I'm also using a basically new battery, charged to 63V (62.62 at the moment).

Edited by FreeRide
Typos

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Posted (edited)

SAFE YOUR MONEY... NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

I'm sorry to report that this control board is not running any swallowbot firmware; or at least it is not offering any speed increase.  This firmware is actually slower than my stock firmware on my other MiniPro.  My speed was limited to 17km/h.  There is a difference compared to my newer firmware, the beep is a little softer when hitting the limit and the tilt-back is much softer.  The tilt back is definitely much better than many of the firmware revisions, but I'm not sure it is any different than the stock 1.1.1 software.  I don't know if this firmware will eventually let one exceed 17km/h, but at least at the beginning it's not happening.  

I'll contact the vendor, but there is not much one can do as the description for the board makes no claims for top speed, or even a speed increase, so pretty much just a waste of money for me unless I need a new controller one day, but I already have spare controllers.

Sad day, but I will see if the vendor has anything to say.

Sorry to have to break the bad news.  

Update:

Quote

Vendor replied: no speed increase can be expected.  They defended the use of the word 'Swallowbot' as a firmware reference, but gave no details.  :(

 

Edited by FreeRide

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Posted (edited)

@FreeRide It is pretty easy to flash in a Ninebot version of the firmware if you want to do that. I use an SWD programmer, with the Windows software developed by @MRN76

I am still testing to see what I think of the Chinese firmware, and, as I said, I am going to try the Russian Swallowbot CPU at some point to directly compare Chinese with Russian firmware mods.  I never expected this Chinese firmware to be same as @MRN76 and @WEagle95 developed. You will recall @AndyYellow here who posted this about the Chinese Firmware he bought from TaoBao:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/7293-hacking-the-minipros-speed-limiter/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-197016

So I have never assumed that the Chinese 'Swallowbot' was the same as the real Swallowbot from @MRN76 and @WEagle95 . However, I failed at getting their CPU working on my first attempt, and no other opportunity has arisen to get the Russian firmware. So I am looking to get the best MiniPRO experience I can.  For me, the controlled pushback is a big deal. I also want it to be at least as sure as the Ninebot firmware when negotiating ledges and obstacles. I really am not as worried about the maximum speed as I am about getting a reliable, safe, platform.

Finally, have you thought of the possibility that there is a 50Km 'bonus level' in this firmware, just as there is in the Ninebot firmware? And yes, I have considered that this firmware may just be the v1.1.1 Ninebot release. But Ninebot don't protect their firmware against copying, and the CPU I received has been secured with RDP1. So I am keeping an open mind, and becoming more comfortable as every mile goes on the odometer :)

Edited by trevmar

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Yes, i did consider there could be another mileage or other limit needed to pass. That is what i was referring to with “I don't know if this firmware will eventually let one exceed 17km/h, but at least at the beginning it's not happening.” 

The speedometer graphic, shows no red indicating there is no limit, but it's not working that way, so there may be other factors.  When the 17km limit is hit, the speedometer is not at the very end of it's travel. So there is some sign, that it needs more usage history or something to unlock further, but i want to know in advance before i waste time and put wear on this new MiniPro, and spend money buying more of them.

My last test today i think will be to put in a generic battery and see how it works with that. Then hopefully at least one seller will have responded  

I've sent messages to a couple sellers. 

 

F214C822-4D37-41D1-AC26-06D673A2D5DC.jpeg

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@FreeRide I found yesterday that my 2.4.6 app speedometer reaches half scale (12 o'clock) while showing about 3.8mph on Ninebot v1.1.7 and 3.5mph on the Chinese 'Swallowbot.' I do not believe those values, and will use a GPS app to check them today. The v1.1.7 machine does have larger knobbly tires. I am pleased with the way the Chinese firmware handles low battery, however. Indeed I am still using my test platform with the smaller 240W battery, routinely riding comfortably at 2 bars. I also am getting used to the gentle pushback to the point that I notice the beeping more than I notice pushback now. I have only seen these warnings when going uphill at a brisk pace, never on the flat or downhill. So I am getting more and more happy with the firmware, it seems to match my riding very well.

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This Chinese Swallowbot v1.1.1 does not have any advantage with a generic battery/BMS, it limits the speed to 10 km/h with such a battery.  The App does not show the limit nor does the App Speedometers turn red when it is hit, there is just a lot of beeping and tilt back when it is hit.

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It looks like all the Ebay and Amazon sellers have removed their control baords from sale in the last few hours from both Ebay and Amazon. This is a pity, as I am very happy with the firmware they were shipping. Even if it is not the Russian Swallowbot (which seems to have gone defunct too - I cant send a PM to @MRN76 any more, and @WEagle95 hasn't posted for months). Consequently I started a new topic:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/14057-sharing-experience-with-russian-swallowbot/

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Probably 9bot had them shutdown.  it was a good firmware for general use, i think it was the stock 1.1.1 firmware as it reports.

 

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Posted (edited)

@FreeRide Generally I agree with you. The firmware is probably v1.1.1 as it reported, but perhaps with the pushback having been turned down a little. None of us seem to have any firmware before 1.1.7 to compare it with, and there is a HUGE difference between v1.1.7 and the "v1.1.1" in the pushback . However, the fact that they tried to protect the  CPU firmware by locking it with RDP1, the same security used on Swallowbot, indicates to me that somebody did something valuable that they wanted to protect. So it is hard to draw solid conclusions. What amazes me is how much 'better' the Chinese Ripoff-bot feels to ride, yet it seems equally safe when the miniPRO is being stressed. To me, it emphasizes how much Ninebot damaged the utility of their platform in their futile quest for "safety." The v1.30, for example, and Swallowbot itself, is a pain to ride uphill because it keeps incrementally pushing back the platform as you get close to its lifting limit. Even 1.1.7, which doesn't have this behavior, pushes back so aggressively when its limit is reached that it very nearly pushes even an experienced rider off on the steepest slopes. The original design team, those who produced v1.1.1, did a much better job than those trusted with the machine during the marketing phase. 

@WEagle95 was correct in his warning (in a post on June 27, 2018) about deficiencies in "critical IRQ handlers .. what we must do on a "hard fault" or "watch dog" interrupts in  mission critical applications" (I consider my riding it as "mission critical" LOL). He tells us Ninebot just switches the platform off rather than trying to go to an "emergency mode." I have confirmed this.

I have been looking over the various firmware code versions for some time now. @WEagle95 really did a great job with Swallowbot (with the tilting platform exception). Yet this was achieved without only two small routines added to the original v1.3.0 binary code, and quite a lot of word-level patching of the various behaviors of the v1.3.0 code.

As for Ninebot shutting reverse engineering down, in the USA you are allowed to repair a device you bought (which we now know would be to v1.1.1 presumably). The DMCA Trennial Review made that quite clear ( https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2018-23241.pdf )  specifically "Computer programs that are contained in and control the functioning of a lawfully acquired motorized land vehicle"  and I look forward to Ninebot arguing their way around that one...

For those that missed it, I have attached a screenshot of @WEagle95 's last post on his Swallowbot work:

WEagles_Post_June-2018.gif

Edited by trevmar

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Interesting stuff.

I think the Chinese board probably just protected the firmware so that ninebot, or a user, would not accidentally, or for any reason update it. 

It did seem rather smooth to ride, but i'd have to compare it directly to another stock one to get a proper gauging since i have larger wheels and a thick foam platform on my regular one, and run the tires hard. 

Since i installed the board, it did mean i had to remove the existing one, but i can't remember if the machine is one of the ones as i gave the serial number for for the swallowbot Chip.  I need to check that, as maybe i can get around to trying swallow bot if i have the board already out of the machine. 

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