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KS-18XL new with bad motor, rim & tyre sideways wobble


bruno356

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19 minutes ago, bruno356 said:

Hi Chriull, how to access the drop down list?  thanks

Once one type a @ the list appears (most of the times :P) - one can type some first letters to reduce the found results of forum members. Imo There has to be a space in front of the @ or this will not work.

 

On 3/27/2019 at 12:48 PM, Smoother said:

That was a joke.  We have a rep (volunteer) US69 (right above your post).  He's not a miracle worker, and he has a day job, but he helps when he can. He has already responded.  In the future, use the private message (PM) function to get his attention. Also you can alert him to a King Song issue by mentioning him, like this: @Smoother except type his handle not mine.  I didn't type his because I didn't want to alert him unnecessarily. type @ followed by anyones handle, then pick from the list that appears.  If no list appears, erase the @ and start again. (space before the @ but not after).

Here another nice description on notification.

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OK.  Firstly, welcome @bruno356 <<<see what I did there? :)

Now, about your wheel, that is disappointing.  And what's with the snap crackle pop? are you eating a bowl of Rice Krispies, in time with the wheel rotation?:blink1:

KS's suggestion to whack it was a good one, until you pointed out the whole motor wobbles.  Straightening the wheel while leaving the motor to wobble might indeed fix the wobble where it contacts the road, but can you imagine BMW or Ford, telling a customer to do this on a new car?

What does your dealer say?  Have you ridden it much?

Now you've got me wondering if my 16s has this disease.  Time to go find two bricks and find out.

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Right, so I tested my 16s and damn it, I have a bit of a wobble too (rim and motor).  Not as bad as yours, but it's there.  And all this time I thought I enjoyed the 1500km I've ridden it.  Now I know it was ALL JUST A LIE!:angry:

Looks like it's "Hammer Time" for me too.

FYI I once bent the drive axle on on my shifter racing kart a few hours before the big race.  It had a HORRIBLE wobble, i mean it was at least an inch out of true..  I thought my day was done.  But then some random driver (thanks random drive) told me to take the wheel off, put a roll of duct tape over the axle (to cushion the steel) and whack it with a big hammer.  Sure enough it worked.  wobble completely gone.  And that cart did 106mph.  On those tiny wheels, any wobble would have been felt, believe me.

So you can bash a wobble out, but should you have to on a brand new wheel? No, I don't think that's right.  When I get near my lump hammer (it's 60 miles and three counties away) I'll try to whack some sense into my wheel and report back.

Try your dealer, It should not be too much trouble for him to swap you out a straight wheel (if one exists)

 

Edited by Smoother
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I have seen this Video now About 4- times, and while my first guess was:

Not that bad...just a slight wobble and still Standing on a "cheap 3D printed stand"....

I thought that, as i owned some wheels, that had a much more worse wobble on the rim, and it still was no Problem at all to ride them at 40kmh.

(btw.: To my Knowledge the wheels from KS and GW are still all "handmade" and so can have some slight Variation)

But: Seeing the Video some times i am not so sure anymore. I recognized that the wobble not only is on the Aluminium rim, but also very clear on the black Motor part and even noticeable where the black Motor part disappears under the Shell. So it Looks to me, not like the Wheel is bend, but as the axle is not correct centered in the Wheel...but i have no clue how this can happen.

Please be Aware and understand, that me as a Person i have absolutly no influence on the warranty process, as far diagnosis like this can be totally wrong and i also sometimes just have no clue About what i am Talking.....

So with this far diagnosis i can't say how this Thing rides, if it is no Problem riding it at all?! As said i have had worse wobbling wheels, which acompany for a Long Long time without any Problems. So i would decide from this standpoint (how does it drive in the end) if i would go more into the warranty Claim against the seller or not..... 

 

 

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@Chriull thanks I did not realise I had to enter the @ + a letter for it to work.
@Smoother thanks for the reply, the audio at my end does not include snap crackle pop sound just the normal wheel sound. 

What does your dealer say?  Have you ridden it much?
The dealer is being guided by what KingSong is saying, no I have not ridden the wheel, as it is brand new and if faulty due to the wobble it has to be returned in new condition as I received it.

@US69 also thanks for the reply, I needed to find out if this is normal for the KingSong range of wheels. I do not see what the type of stand has to do with the wheel wobble. 

To my Knowledge the wheels from KS and GW are still all "handmade" and so can have some slight Variation
Yes but the aluminium components that make up the motor assembly are Machined on a CNC therefore should run true.

not like the Wheel is bend, but as the axle is not correct centered in the Wheel. ..
The whole assembly wobbles so this could be the reason.

That is the question whether to accept the wheel wobble or not on a 3K wheel. As an engineering trades person it may not be acceptable, but I wanted to get a feel from people who own KingSong or other brands  and compare them to what I received.

Any other feedback would be appreciated - Regards Bruno

Edited by bruno356
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I'm still learning how to ride my 18XL wheel I received about a month ago.  At slow speeds, I hear a similar wobble noise, but when I go a little faster, I don't hear it as much since the wind noise kinda drowns it out.  I've not managed to go faster than perhaps 13 or 14 MPH yet as it's still a bit scary.  I don't have a stand like yours to tell if I have a similar wobble.  But I did just lift it up by hand and turned it on just to see what would happen.  The wheel spun up and start going full speed until it decided to let the wheel coast freely and start blinking red lights.  When it hit full speed, I could really feel the wobble in my hand, but now so violently that it would come out of my hand.  Is that within acceptable limits, I don't know.  Because these wheels are all metal with no adjustable spokes, I wonder if thermal expansion/contraction will make some difference during seasonal changes.

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6 hours ago, choy said:

I'm still learning how to ride my 18XL wheel I received about a month ago.  At slow speeds, I hear a similar wobble noise, but when I go a little faster, I don't hear it as much since the wind noise kinda drowns it out.  I've not managed to go faster than perhaps 13 or 14 MPH yet as it's still a bit scary.  I don't have a stand like yours to tell if I have a similar wobble.  But I did just lift it up by hand and turned it on just to see what would happen.  The wheel spun up and start going full speed until it decided to let the wheel coast freely and start blinking red lights.  When it hit full speed, I could really feel the wobble in my hand, but now so violently that it would come out of my hand.  Is that within acceptable limits, I don't know.  Because these wheels are all metal with no adjustable spokes, I wonder if thermal expansion/contraction will make some difference during seasonal changes.

We ride on low tech tyres (they aren't made for formula 1 cars) so the tyres all wobble a bit.  But motor wobble is unacceptable in my view at these prices.  If you haven't ridden the wheel the dealer should have no problem swapping it out for another one (provided that one doesn't wobble too)

We all talk about death wobbles and half a dozen theories as to why they happen get banded about BUT, what if death wobbles are induced by wobbles built into the wheels?  I didn't know my wheel has a wobble until reading @bruno356 s report.  How many other riders are riding wheels with unknown wobbly motor assemblies?

@bruno356 time to get insistent with your dealer or ask for a refund.  This is not acceptable at this price tag, and with these stakes (death wobble potential)

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@Smoother appreciate the reply, do you or others using electric unicycles know if this is a problem with all brands  (motor/rim wobble) or just KingSong. I assume that these small manufacturers would source motors from the same supplier, but may be wrong.

@Marty Backe Hi I read you have quite a few wheels wondering what your experience might be - thanks.

@choy by lifting the wheel of the ground while turned on, it will rev up to maximum speed and vibrate excessively before it shuts down.
You could make a stand out of anything, bricks, wood etc. just make sure its level and place your 18XL on it (making sure the tyre is clear of the ground). Turn the 18XL on and control the speed of the motor/wheel by slightly tilting it backwards or forwards. Be careful you do not exceed the preset max speed otherwise the wheel will rev out at max speed and vibrate badly until it shuts down.

You can use your smart phone to video the inside area of the motor/wheel to see how badly it wobbles from side to side while the wheel is rotating slowly (you Might Need a light to illuminate the inside). Perhaps post the video here as a comparison.

Thanks Guys

Edited by bruno356
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4 hours ago, bruno356 said:

@Smoother appreciate the reply, do you or others using electric unicycles know if this is a problem with all brands  (motor/rim wobble) or just KingSong. I assume that these small manufacturers would source motors from the same supplier, but may be wrong.

@Marty Backe Hi I read you have quite a few wheels wondering what your experience might be - thanks.

@choy by lifting the wheel of the ground while turned on, it will rev up to maximum speed and vibrate excessively before it shuts down.
You could make a stand out of anything, bricks, wood etc. just make sure its level and place your 18XL on it (making sure the tyre is clear of the ground). Turn the 18XL on and control the speed of the motor/wheel by slightly tilting it backwards or forwards. Be careful you do not exceed the preset max speed otherwise the wheel will rev out at max speed and vibrate badly until it shuts down.

You can use your smart phone to video the inside area of the motor/wheel to see how badly it wobbles from side to side while the wheel is rotating slowly (you Might Need a light to illuminate the inside). Perhaps post the video here as a comparison.

Thanks Guys

Is this your first wheel? I only ask because people who are new to wheels sometimes inspect them like they are fine Swiss watches, and are then greatly disappointed when they discover all kinds of imperfections. For instance, often our tires are not nearly perfectly round, making this look OK.

How does the wheel actually ride?

I am a little curious, so tonight I may inspect a couple of wheels, including my XL, and see what I see.

From my experience with owning 14-wheels, none of them are perfect, but our body adapts and therefore we don't notice anything.

I'll drop a line here after I sample a few wheels.

Edited by Marty Backe
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@Marty Backe thanks for the reply, you guessed right it is my first wheel, I did not expect perfection but the wobble as per my video seemed to me excessive causing vibrations while running it on a stand. I centred the tire as that was also way out, that's ok now.  I have not ridden the wheel as I thought I might have to return it due to the bad wobbling. Would be very informative to know how your XL and other brand wheels compare.

Regards - bruno 

Edited by bruno356
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2 hours ago, bruno356 said:

@Marty Backe thanks for the reply, you guessed right it is my first wheel, I did not expect perfection but the wobble as per my video seemed to me excessive causing vibrations while running it on a stand. I centred the tire as that was also way out, that's ok now.  I have not ridden the wheel as I thought I might have to return it due to the bad wobbling. Would be very informative to know how your XL and other brand wheels compare.

Regards - bruno 

Can't get to it tonight, but hopefully in the morning (~8-hours from now) I'll have something more to say.

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@bruno356 I think I'm the only one to actually repeat your experiment.  Most of us know our tyres wobble, but I, for one, did not imagine the whole wheel might wobble too.

Marty's report might be interesting. But, regardless of his and my findings (on used wheels), It's your money and your wheel is brand new.  Have you asked your dealer directly for a refund or straight wheel replacement?  That might make this whole thing go away for you.  You have a right to be dissatisfied in your particular wheel regardless of the supposed "normal" state of a wobbling wheel. So you're a more discerning customer than the rest of us, that doesn't make you wrong, or not within your rights to demand a 100% correct wheel, especially in this crucial area.

I haven't whacked mine straight yet, because my lump hammer is a 2 hour and a two toll, drive away and I'm not heading that way any time soon.

Edited by Smoother
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The wobble from letting the wheel spin while lifted is usually due to a badly centered or bumpy tire. That’s how all my wheels have been, but a careful centering and/or weight balancing has solved those issues very well.

On your wheel the whole rim and motor cover are crooked. While it might not even disturb riding that much, I’d be worried about the cause for a fit that bad, and wether it would turn actually problematic. A cable in between the motor cover, a badly machined part, etc.

If you have the option, I would return/replace the wheel even if it would ride smoothly.

That said, I wouldn’t consider KS wheels being badly made because of this. This is the first time I’ve seen a motor assembly that badly crooked on any wheel. Your replacement wheel, KS or other, will surely not have as bad of an issue.

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Wow if that's classed as a small tolerable wobble I would hate to see an untollerated wobble regardless I wouldn't ride it ...... I think kingsong should ride it and see how they do be a good blooper to see them fall off and injured at low speed..... Refund immediately in my considered opinion.

Edited by Number1stunner
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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

OK, I sampled 5 of my wheels; KS18XL, KS14S, MSX, ACM, and a Tesla.

None of them display any hub movement like yours. To the eye they appear to rotate nice and flat. Interestingly, the tire on my 18XL is awful, in terms of running true. It certainly has more of a side-to-side wobble than yours. Yet the wheel feels great as I ride it.

So I don't think yours would affect your riding at all. However, clearly there's an "issue" with the axle relative to the motor housing. Whether this is bad or indicative of something that's going to affect the life of the wheel/motor, I have no idea.

It's particularly tough because it's your first wheel. If you had other wheels you could hop on it and see what you think (I don't think you would notice anything). I certainly wouldn't go pounding on your wheel.

 

Marty youre a veteran but let's be realistic it's clearly a problem and needs to be addressed can you imagine if the guy falls due to this 'tolerated wobble'..... What if he not only injures himself but someone else.... At low speeds it wobbles think at high speed 😥..... Chocolate teapot comes to mind.

Quality control is essential especially when UK needs to see the reliability and safety factor in legalising EUC

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13 hours ago, bruno356 said:

@Marty Backe thanks for the reply, you guessed right it is my first wheel, I did not expect perfection but the wobble as per my video seemed to me excessive causing vibrations while running it on a stand. I centred the tire as that was also way out, that's ok now.  I have not ridden the wheel as I thought I might have to return it due to the bad wobbling. Would be very informative to know how your XL and other brand wheels compare.

Regards - bruno 

I'm going to try this I wonder if they all wobble like that IV never noticed it but quite concerned by looking at it..... I deal with cars and balancing is crucial whether it's tyres or alloys but that wobble is not a tyre issue it's like a loose bearing or bent rim or something. Anyway don't take my advise just get a replacement and happy wheeling

Edited by Number1stunner
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50 minutes ago, Number1stunner said:

Marty youre a veteran but let's be realistic it's clearly a problem and needs to be addressed can you imagine if the guy falls due to this 'tolerated wobble'..... What if he not only injures himself but someone else.... At low speeds it wobbles think at high speed 😥..... Chocolate teapot comes to mind.

Quality control is essential especially when UK needs to see the reliability and safety factor in legalising EUC

The motor/axle symmetry is obviously not normal. But when you look at where it counts, where the tire meets the road, that's not much wobble compared to my wheels.

I agree that there may be an issue with the motor in terms of longevity, etc. But I don't think the quality of the ride would suffer at all. If so, I better turn in all my wheels and get new ones (which won't be any better).

Only one persons opinion though.

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@Smoother  "And what's with the snap crackle pop?" I missed that the first but I can definitely hear it now, sometimes its loader with the wheel in reverse.
"
Have you asked your dealer directly for a refund or straight wheel replacement?" Not yet as I wanted to find out what is normal.
@mrelwood from an engineering perspective these wheels (actual motor & rim assy.) are very poorly made, when one thinks that these components are machined in a CNC and all parts should run true.

@Marty Backe "None of them display any hub movement like yours." that means that they can do better or they have changed their supplier? The tire by itself would not worry me as much that can be fixed. i had no plans in trying to correct this with a rubber mallet.
@Number1stunner never expected anything like this and as you say on a motorbike or car this would be totally unexceptable. Did you check your wheel.

@Gfr Thanks for the video, yours looks about the same as mine, but just a little different. Is the rim where the magnets are located also wobbling from side to side. As @Marty Backe mentioned  "does it affect your riding?" 

Thanks very much for all the contributions on this subject, I have to decide what to do and am now wondering about the snap crackle pop noise.

regards - Bruno

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