When do you gear up Casual vs Full Gear?

[h3X]

If you ask me, anyone who rides anything at speed without a helmet is asking for a traumatic brain injury. I've seen you claim that face plants don't lead to fatalities, but that is blatantly false. Helmets don't prevent face plants, but they save brains.

https://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/esk8-death-in-singapore/6564
https://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/life-threatening-accident-because-of-esc-maybe-even-vesc/8102
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3272929/Motorised-board-death-reignites-helmet-debate
https://www.nola.com/traffic/2015/01/covington_man_killed_in_motori.html
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/6-fatal-accidents-involving-hoverboards-electric-skateboards-and-scooters

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, h3X said:

If you ask me, anyone who rides anything at speed without a helmet is asking for a traumatic brain injury. I've seen you claim that face plants don't lead to fatalities, but that is blatantly false. Helmets don't prevent face plants, but they save brains.

https://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/esk8-death-in-singapore/6564
https://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/life-threatening-accident-because-of-esc-maybe-even-vesc/8102
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3272929/Motorised-board-death-reignites-helmet-debate
https://www.nola.com/traffic/2015/01/covington_man_killed_in_motori.html
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/6-fatal-accidents-involving-hoverboards-electric-skateboards-and-scooters

You linked a bunch of eboard articles. E skateboards are nothing like EUC’s especially considering the dramatic sideways stance vs forward facing stance. You also linked some random Hoverboards articles like a kid getting run over by a bus. There is data of Segway and scooter deaths, but the very mechanism of holding on to handle bars predisposes you to a much greater chance of hitting your head because you’ll hold on to the handlebars as you go down instead of rolling or using your hands to fall. I always wear helmets on my escooters.

You misread my faceplant statement as it was in the context of riding an EUC, and there are no EUC related statistics about fatalities from a faceplant 

If memory serves me correctly, I recall hearing about eboard riders saying how faceplants are more prominent/likely on those than an EUC

Edited April 28, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[h3X]

Landing on your face is landing on your face, regardless of the vehicle you are falling from. Regarding stance, my longboard stance is pretty straight forward facing.

[kasenutty]

Someone stole the nose and tail from your board, man 

[erk1024]

One day I was out riding my road bike in this new housing subdivision. There was a section of sidewalk that was missing, but the lip was only like 2" from the dirt. I figured I could ride over it no problem, and I wasn't going that fast, maybe 10mph. I must have had too much weight on the front wheel, because it came to a dead stop, and I went over the front handlebars, landed on my head, on the concrete and rolled. It happened so fast! It cracked my helmet, but I was uninjured, no concussion, and I sheepishly rode home. Had to replace the helmet obviously. No cars involved, just a run of the mill road hazard that I misjudged or sh!t happened.

Am I glad I had my helmet on? You bet! That's why I always wear one.

Edited April 29, 2019 by erk1024
clarified text

[Joker10]

I grew up not wearing a helmet on a bicycle or skateboard.  But had a front tire blowout on a mountain bike trying to navigate a 90 degree turn at 25 mph.  Similar to what erk1024 had happen, they were repaving and I didn’t notice the difference in asphalt height until the last few seconds, tried to time lifting the front wheel but didn’t get it right.  Absolutely no protective gear.  I seem to have the roll down but had to sacrifice my shoulder- level 3 separated shoulder fractured collar bone, and scapula.  Fortunately my head didn’t get  cracked open.  I always wear a helmet now, going on the road bike in about half an hour and will be wearing it then.  I realized that in any truly violent crash, protecting your head or any other body part is not a choice you can control.  Same experiences with motocross.  If you See a crash coming you will avoid it unless you have something wrong with you.  People crash unexpectedly, and unplanned and cannot predict how they will fall or what body parts will be affected, so I do my best to protect the body part that controls life sustaining functions.  My nephew was a pro freestyle bmx rider and my son was a competitive freestyle bmx rider for a years.  So I spent a lot of time around skate parks.  I have seen the guys try to help find someone’s teeth so I went full face for the euc.  I have seen it and lived it, I don’t care what anyone says, helmets work.   Rationalize not wearing a helmet in any way you find necessary, it’s your choice.

[Darrell Wesh]

4 hours ago, Joker10 said:

I grew up not wearing a helmet on a bicycle or skateboard.  But had a front tire blowout on a mountain bike trying to navigate a 90 degree turn at 25 mph.  Similar to what erk1024 had happen, they were repaving and I didn’t notice the difference in asphalt height until the last few seconds, tried to time lifting the front wheel but didn’t get it right.  Absolutely no protective gear.  I seem to have the roll down but had to sacrifice my shoulder- level 3 separated shoulder fractured collar bone, and scapula.  Fortunately my head didn’t get  cracked open.  I always wear a helmet now, going on the road bike in about half an hour and will be wearing it then.  I realized that in any truly violent crash, protecting your head or any other body part is not a choice you can control.  Same experiences with motocross.  If you See a crash coming you will avoid it unless you have something wrong with you.  People crash unexpectedly, and unplanned and cannot predict how they will fall or what body parts will be affected, so I do my best to protect the body part that controls life sustaining functions.  My nephew was a pro freestyle bmx rider and my son was a competitive freestyle bmx rider for a years.  So I spent a lot of time around skate parks.  I have seen the guys try to help find someone’s teeth so I went full face for the euc.  I have seen it and lived it, I don’t care what anyone says, helmets work.   Rationalize not wearing a helmet in any way you find necessary, it’s your choice.

This is all fine and dandy but everyone seems to be missing the point I’m trying to repeatedly make. You are all talking about accidents that happened on the sidewalk or path not the main roads where cars travel. 

On the main road, your helmet won’t do anything to protect you from getting rear ended or run over by a car. My choice, based on the data, is to maximize the following distance of cars behind me by not wearing a helmet, so in case I do fall they will have adequate stopping distance to not run me over. Whether I wear a helmet or not won’t protect me from this death. If I do fall, I am chancing that- based on my other high and low speed falls- I won’t hit my head or face. That is why I wear full gear everywhere else. 

If I am going to be off roading or in the skate park I DO wear helmets. But 90% of my travels I share the road with cars and from personal experience have seen the shorter following distances they give me when I look professional wearing full face/motorcycle helmets. 

I sound like a broken record at this point.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[h3X]

5 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

your helmet won’t do anything to protect you from getting rear ended or run over by a car.

 

[Darrell Wesh]

3 hours ago, h3X said:

 

Took you long enough to browse the web for a miracle. 

My stance is still the same. You’ll either be killed or suffer life altering injuries

I watched the video numerous times. It looks like the tire contacted the helmet and pushed her out of the crushing path. IMO looks like she did not get her head fully run over, only the top of the helmet which caused it to shatter. A theory which aligns with other commenters in the video. There was not one but two wheels that would have flattened her head or neck like a pancake, especially with such a large truck and such low speeds to maintain more pressure over time. The title is purely sensationalism and to advocate helmets, which are implicitly not designed for getting run over. 

Oh yeah... I can post videos too. Not a chance she was really run over 

 

Here is someone actually surviving getting run over cleanly on the head but sustaining life altering injuries. Brain swelling from the after effects 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[Smoother]

All this is why I don't ride in traffic. Although I do not need my wheel to commute so YMMV.

Another lesson from all these videos: stay well clear of large vehicles and parked cars. Shit happens AT ANY TIME.

[Scatcat]

This is going circles around circles around... No one's going to convince Darrell and Darrell convinces nobody but himself.

Personally I would love to have a sign on the back of my jacket/backpack saying "If you can read this you're to f---ing close! You're not a dog sniffing my arse!". But then again, some would probably be like kiddos, be affronted and become extra aggressive... just because. The antics of idiots in traffic never cease to amaze me. People not realizing a car is a bloody weapon unless driven carefully is beyond my comprehension.

My theory why car drivers keep extra distance to bicyclists, EUC-riders and scooter riders without a helmet, is probably something like not wanting to be to close to the crazy person.   But then again, I may give them too much credit.

Whatever. Can this dead horse of Darrell vs everybody else please be allowed to rest in peace now, or maybe rest in pieces - like a skull hitting the asphalt without any protection. Or do someone know of a convenient way of hiding a single thread from notifications, so that I can unfollow this one...

[tessa25]

29 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

Whatever. Can this dead horse of Darrell vs everybody else please be allowed to rest in peace now, or maybe rest in pieces - like a skull hitting the asphalt without any protection. Or do someone know of a convenient way of hiding a single thread from notifications, so that I can unfollow this one...

On the top right of your screen for this thread click  following -> unfollow.

Edited April 30, 2019 by tessa25

[LucasD]

On average wearing no helmet gave 3.35 inches more passing space. Considering that one bike is harder to hit head than on EUC I tend to think it would still prove beneficial on average.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-helmets-attract-cars-to-cyclists/

 

P.S> Do you have a long hair or wear wig, because it seems to give extra 2 inches

Edited April 30, 2019 by LucasD

[Joker10]

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3783373/ refuting the findings of the original study.  Now that I think about it, I was run over by a motorcycle when I was 5 while riding my big wheel, and I was not wearing a helmet.  I totally get why you would want to be dead or unconscious before being run over.  What I love most about this is that we live in a country where we are free to ride EUCs and free to Ride without a helmet if we choose to do so!  So ride on with your helmetless self! 

 

[LanghamP]

Helmets and dedicated painted bicycle lanes unfortunately fall into the "ironic safety devices" whereby wearing or using one increases your chances of death or injury when bicycling in a reasonable manner.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/painted-cycle-lanes-result-close-passes-drivers-study-finds-422068/amp

In my opinion, helmets should be used far more often than what they are now. The only reason I suggest not wearing one is that it increases your chances of getting hit by indifferent drivers.

You really should wear a helmet whenever your body is going faster than the top speed of what you can run.

--While driving/motorcycling. This is probably the most important time to wear a helmet, because car deaths are the biggest killer

--While flying.

--While boating.

--When older than 65, because falls kill more people at that age and above than anything else.

--Where there is the potential of falling, such as parkour, rough trails, climbing, etc... 

But, realistically, driving a car is extremely dangerous even with airbags and safety belts. That recent crash that I caught on dashcam had most of the people involved going to the hospital with some pretty bad injuries, enough that I'm convinced that driving helmets should be mandatory like safety belts.

[Joker10]

As difficult as it is to believe, our government is design to restrict the government, not the citizens.  I will never agree with advocating that the government restrict the citizens rights.  Ride your euc without a helmet if you want to, ride your motorcycle without a helmet if you want to, play football with no helmet if you want to.

 

[Scatcat]

On 4/30/2019 at 4:41 PM, tessa25 said:

On the top right of your screen for this thread click  following -> unfollow.

I facepalmed myself when I read this!  

Reading what's on screen much? Not me at least it seems.

[Scatcat]

1 hour ago, Joker10 said:

As difficult as it is to believe, our government is design to restrict the government, not the citizens.  I will never agree with advocating that the government restrict the citizens rights.  Ride your euc without a helmet if you want to, ride your motorcycle without a helmet if you want to, play football with no helmet if you want to.

 

Yeah, I get you. That is one of the things I don't like about my own country, Sweden. To some extent it is a nanny state, trying to legislate common sense.

That never ends well, since "common sense" quite often is neither sensible or very common. But the power to legislate without limitation, always leads to more and more insensible laws and a lot less freedom.

[Skeptikos]

On 4/29/2019 at 11:04 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

This is all fine and dandy but everyone seems to be missing the point I’m trying to repeatedly make. You are all talking about accidents that happened on the sidewalk or path not the main roads where cars travel. 

On the main road, your helmet won’t do anything to protect you from getting rear ended or run over by a car. My choice, based on the data, is to maximize the following distance of cars behind me by not wearing a helmet, so in case I do fall they will have adequate stopping distance to not run me over. Whether I wear a helmet or not won’t protect me from this death. If I do fall, I am chancing that- based on my other high and low speed falls- I won’t hit my head or face. That is why I wear full gear everywhere else. 

If I am going to be off roading or in the skate park I DO wear helmets. But 90% of my travels I share the road with cars and from personal experience have seen the shorter following distances they give me when I look professional wearing full face/motorcycle helmets. 

I sound like a broken record at this point.

I hope we're all ready to start this argument again. Anyway, as a professional statistician, my reaction to this statement is, "yikes 😬".

First some obvious points that I think we all agree on: Nearly all riders wear helmets in traffic, and nearly none have died in car collisions. Right off the bat those basic facts make your argument unworkable.

Then some common sense:

• Most pedestrians, bicyclists, etc., survive car collisions. I personally know multiple people who have been hit by cars and so far none have died as a result. You can browse this forum to find stories of EUC riders surviving car collisions. It's extremely inaccurate to treat a car collision as an automatic death sentence. And yes, you will obviously want to have a helmet when that happens.
• The people driving slightly closer to you often aren't the people who will kill you. Like someone else mentioned, on the street I'm much more worried about drunk drivers and people who don't see me at all.
• Most accidents, even on the street, don't involve contact with a car. Hsiang ran over a track at an odd angle, Kuji hit an unexpected bump on the Sherman, oil slicks, Gotway malfunctions, wobbles, etc. ad nauseum. And, without a helmet, the results of these non-car accidents can be gruesome.

Once you start plugging in numbers that are consistent with common sense, it becomes clear that helmets are a big net positive. That's true even if drivers approach you more closely. The evidence you provided doesn't even come close to suggesting that we should remove our helmets when we ride on the road.

PS: I haven't had a lot of issues with cars following too closely, but a couple of times I've used the bicycle stopping hand signal and then people gave me a lot of space. That seems like a much more practical solution to close cars. A reflective vest can have that effect too.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Skeptikos

[Lex Smith]

You know what they say . . .  "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."  :-)

But totally agree with the logic of wearing a helmet.  If some one chooses not to that's their decision and I respect that but to suggest they're safer without a helmet . . . yeah I struggle with that.

After four decades of being involved in various activities where the consequences of things going wrong usually result in fairly traumatic injury there was one activity that stood out for brain injuries.  It wasn't riding trail bikes, down hill skiing, sky diving, hang gliding, horse riding or rock climbing (where helmets are usually worn).  It was professional wrestling where helmets are never worn.  A close second was skateboarding where helmets are not often worn (I always did and it saved my skull a couple of times - but then I wasn't that great at it).

Just my personal experience and observation and certainly not scientific proof of the fact but enough for me.

 

[winterwheel]

I want all those helmetless scooter riders to become electric unicycle riders. If they get hassled all the time about wearing helmets that'll be harder to accomplish.

[FerdinandK]

When I started I used my bicycle helmet (no face cover). Then I saw a video of a face-palm here and I got a mountainbike helmet (covering the face). When I go out for a ride I always gear up completely (helmet, knee, wrist, Jacket and good shoes), the point is, that of course I can ride in a "controlled" manner, but the problem is the one minute when I think, that is a great road over here and I lean a bit more forward to inspect it more closely. Until now that happened very often until there is the "beep-beep-beep" reminding me of my "controlled" manner riding. The second point is, that I am not alone on this planet, even if I think I am, there can be another one, just around the corner checking the mail on his smartphone, ... . Risk management is not about how to get rid of the risk, but to handle the possible (even unlikely and extremely rare) scenarios.

[Aztek]

Full face helmet, Flexmeter, knee and elbow pads - always. I regard it as being disciplined.