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When do you gear up Casual vs Full Gear?

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I have these one.

They protect the wrist and the hand/fingers..(incompletely)

HiredHand_large.jpg

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8 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I wonder how this leather will hold up compared to the tough leather found on gym gloves. Just a though, that these dress leathers might only provide the protection equivalent of denim (not much).  I'm not any kind of leather expert; maybe soft, supple leathers are just as abrasion resistant as stiffer, coarser leather?

They won't hold up as well,  but all they really need to do is hold up well enough to stop a finger abrasion or cut. 

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@Lutalo maybe a set of old leather garden gloves might do? Those you use when cutting torny bushes or roses.

Or a set of old tool gloves.

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53 minutes ago, Unventor said:

@Lutalo maybe a set of old leather garden gloves might do? Those you use when cutting torny bushes or roses.

Or a set of old tool gloves.

I don't even know how garden gloves look, but they sound bulky :)

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10 hours ago, Smoother said:

At EUC speed and EUC style accidents, ANY glove material will reduce abrasion to the fingers by 90% and most will reduce it by 100%.  I would say if you find a comfortable pair that fits under your wrist guards ( with or without modifications) then buy them.  From my own experience (and someone else recently) after abrasion and cuts, the next big issue is stinging and numbness in the fingertips caused by a serious slap effect from the fingers after the wrist guards touch down.  After my biggest face plant my left pinkie stung and was also numb for about 20 minutes. It was quite unpleasant. Of course it went away, as stated, but any glove material that can reduce or eliminate that feeling is a plus.  

Sometimes this winter A have squeezed some lined, soft leather gardening gloves under my flexmeters, but it was a tight squeeze.  But these gloves are too nice to cut up to fit.  So mostly I just leave them in the car.

But I've had falls where I wasn't wearing knee pads and my jeans were shredded with blood everywhere. I'm not convinced that your statement is true, but maybe the hands are different :confused1:

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5 hours ago, Lutalo said:

I don't even know how garden gloves look, but they sound bulky :)

So are some are not. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/house-garden/gardening/best-gardening-gloves-for-brambles-amazon-womens-mens-briers-showa-town-and-country-9268316.html%3famp

I am pretty sure you can find some at local garden center or were you buy tools for DIY home improvements.

Edited by Unventor

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6 hours ago, Unventor said:

So are some are not. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/house-garden/gardening/best-gardening-gloves-for-brambles-amazon-womens-mens-briers-showa-town-and-country-9268316.html%3famp

I am pretty sure you can find some at local garden center or were you buy tools for DIY home improvements.

Thanks for the link. Yeah, I see how those could work. They seem to have that "Isotoner" look and fit that I am envisioning. :)

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18 hours ago, mankwee said:

I have these one.

They protect the wrist and the hand/fingers..(incompletely)

HiredHand_large.jpg

Hey, those are nice; almost exactly what I seek. Do they have a full-fingered version? Please send a link. In the meantime I will do some more searching in Amazon. 

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Having recently kissed the pavement at 30+ kph when a car pulled out in front of me at an intersection that was also embellished with a curved stripe of spilled oil, I can tell you I was on the pavement before I knew I was going down.  I was wearing only a helmet and leather shoes.  The worst damage was to my knee.  It took 2 weeks for the majority of cuts and bruises to heal, but over 6 weeks for the road rash scar on my knee to heal.  I did a rag doll roll so my shoulders didn't suffer any damage.   But 4 of those weeks I was badly limping.  The accident happened 100 meters from my home.   Fortunately, I was on my motor scooter which took the brunt of the impact.  I wear full gear on my EUC always. YMMV.

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11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

But I've had falls where I wasn't wearing knee pads and my jeans were shredded with blood everywhere. I'm not convinced that your statement is true, but maybe the hands are different :confused1:

No, I get that, me too. But with Flexmeter, or other quality guards, your hands aren't taking much of an impact or much abrasion. After the initial whip lash into the ground as the wrist guard touch down, the fingers, for the most part, stay out of contact with the ground as you slide to a stop (1 foot or 8) on your wrist guards.  Any contact after the initial slap down is incidental at best and easily protected by a glove of any construction.  This has been my experience anyway YIMV (Your Injuries May Vary)  Now, if you slide into an iron fence and crunch your fingers, then not only will the gloves be of little use, but you weren't following the 2 second rule.(if I fall off right now, will my face be safe over there) or my fingers.

Now to keep in line with your unprotected knee statement, Yes, I agree, if you are not wearing wrist guards, the quality of the gloves (motorcycle vs gardening, etc) is crucial. But that wasn't what we were discussing, in this sub, sub thread:D

I'll go back and read/edit my orig. post, if it lacks clarity.

edit, no, it does mention wrist guards, but I added an additional reference to remove any ambiguity.

Edited by Smoother

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So much for my DIY glove project; that's a good thing :thumbup:

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

After the initial whip lash into the ground as the wrist guard touch down, the fingers, for the most part, stay out of contact with the ground as you slide to a stop (1 foot or 8) on your wrist guards.  Any contact after the initial slap down is incidental at best and easily protected by a glove of any construction.

It's an incidental injury for certain, but it is rather unpleasant and has happened to me frequently enough to be of concern. I have endured minor scrapes and cuts on my fingers almost everytime (that I recall, and perhaps I only recall the more major ones) my wrists have touched the ground on a fall. In anycase, it seems my search is over; found this on Amazon.  

41XOfAu1UGL._AC_SY400_.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

So much for my DIY glove project; that's a good thing :thumbup:

It's an incidental injury for certain, but it is rather unpleasant and has happened to me frequently enough to be of concern. I have endured minor scrapes and cuts on my fingers almost everytime (that I recall, and perhaps I only recall the more major ones) my wrists have touched the ground on a fall. In anycase, it seems my search is over; found this on Amazon.  

41XOfAu1UGL._AC_SY400_.jpg

I have those same gloves. I cut the tips of the index finger for touch control. Too bulky can’t even stuff them in a pocket though. Way too hot in the humid east summers

Edited by Darrell Wesh

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36 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I have those same gloves. I cut the tips of the index finger for touch control. Too bulky can’t even stuff them in a pocket though. Way too hot in the humid east summers

That makes total sense. I myself would probably cut out a good portion of the middle finger to allow for proper gesturing. 

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5 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Hey, those are nice; almost exactly what I seek. Do they have a full-fingered version? Please send a link. In the meantime I will do some more searching in Amazon. 

@Lutalo I found these bud, not sure if they help answer your question:

https://shop.cyes.nl/en/snowboardgloves-protective-flexmeter.html

 

Edited by Planemo

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4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I have those same gloves. I cut the tips of the index finger for touch control. Too bulky can’t even stuff them in a pocket though. Way too hot in the humid east summers

Agreed. I still need a summer solution. 

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4 hours ago, Smoother said:

What about driving gloves?

As an example.  Leather palms/fingers, string backs for ventilation.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/252672092785?chn=ps&var=551605161109

Those are nice. I am buying those for driving because I like them :laughbounce2:. I was just thinking of a open finger version of those Hillbilly gloves I showed in the photo. 

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10 hours ago, Lutalo said:

I was just thinking of a open finger version of those Hillbilly gloves I showed in the photo. 

open-scissors-with-red-handle-isolated-o

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11 minutes ago, Smoother said:

open-scissors-with-red-handle-isolated-o

I would if I had to, but since they have already used those. :laughbounce2:

61fY5hKUV8L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

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There are two kinds of crashes.  Those where you have some indication things are going south before they go critical, and those that are totally unexpected and give no advance warning.  With the later, your impact with the ground will be the first indication that you have a problem.  No chance to react.  No amount of preparation/training will help you with that initial impact.

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1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

Sorry. I've been trying to sit on my hands not to respond to this. But I can't. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, and where there is one confirming your bias, there is always some other story that won't fit nearly as well.

This is two years ago, a friend of a friend, that stopped riding while I still was a noob. The pic is lifted off the Swedish FB EUC group.

face-plant-dual.jpg.01e4ce3ba4253bbdbda0ce0db25866a5.jpg

His story was going downhill at about 22mph/36kph, with about 60% charge.
For some reason he tried to resettle his back-pack, and succeeded in pushing the pedals with his toes. He probably hit some bump at the same time, because the UEC cut off without any warning whatsoever.

So with his hands on the straps in a sudden face-plant, wearing only a normal bicycle helmet, he had no chance at all. Fractures above and below the eye on one side, the cheek on the other, the jaw bone and nose too. It took months to recover. He now wears six titanium plates where the fractures were too severe...

No more EUC for him, as he had to promise his kids that that was the end of that.

My head has kissed the ground once when falling off a EUC. That helmet is now rubbish, but the $250 paid was worth every cent. Even though I landed in a perfect stance after falling at ~20mph, the whip-like impact would have left a really nasty dent in my forehead without it.

Would I have been able to keep my head from hitting the ground without the extra 700 grams of helmet?

Well, my head weighs in at approx 11 lbs, and most grown heads are in the same ball park in the amount of wood we carry. Approx 9.5-11.5 lbs. Adding 1 or 2 lbs of helmet is of course adding some strain on the neck, but in relation we're talking about adding 15-20%. Or to put it in perspective, we put down the no.10 bowling ball and heft the no.12, that is about the actual weight difference (and the actual weight we're talking about too).

So mr @Darrell Wesh, while you're free to dislike wearing a helmet, and fully free to choose what risks you take. But don't give me that rationalizing/justifying BS about extra weight and volume, reaction times and hovering heads. You don't like helmets, FINE, don't wear them.

My personal reasoning is: You won't ever need a helmet until you actually do, and if that happens the choices you've made affects the outcome you face. Sadly you won't be able to go back to remake those choices in light of 20/20 hind-sight, so I rather have no regrets.

Sorry aboot the rant </ rant>

My evidence is not anecdotal. It’s common sense. A heavier weight at the head will be harder to keep up in a fall. More bulk around the head will make contact sooner and hit the ground easier. It’s funny how angry people can get when facts stare them in the eye and put a stain on values they hold dear. This is irrefutable fact. 

You misread my post however! and are attacking it for something it never said. I never advocated going around wearing no helmet. I even acknowledged I’ve seen the faceplant photos of those without full face helmets. 

 I merely said that videos documenting all the gnarly scratches on their helmet (which they attribute would have happened to their face had they not had the helmet on) can not be justified due to those simple common sense facts I listed above. Something that COULD be justified would be more in the realm of: “hit my head and had a concussion, thank god I had my helmet or it would have been much worse” 

I understand the risk I take. If I didn’t think my body was ready to save me then I would be wearing a full face helmet every ride. You don’t understand that in my sport, I fall everyday. And catch myself. That is the nature of a sprinters block start: To generate an instantaneous burst of acceleration utilizing Newton’s Third Law, and having to have the strength and core rigidity to keep yourself upright. 

Ive fallen twice while riding for a year. Both times I was wearing a helmet and did not get a scratch on them. The first fall was coming off of grass and trying to go back into the sidewalk. The curb was deeper than I ever imagined and my entire tire contacted and immediately flattened, sending me flying forward as if a car had just hit a brick wall and sent the passenger out the windshield. Maybe 15mph. Full face helmet made no contact despite this being the most abrupt crash possible, even more abrupt then a cutout. 

The second crash I documented here in the forums, a 33mph fall off the MSX. No scratch on my helmet. A clean roll. No hurt wrists despite no wrist guards. 

Also: I am absolutely all for the idea of normal helmets. I would like to wear a simple “regular” helmet if I can find one attractive enough. For everyone else, if you’ve fallen before and had scratches on your full face, or don’t feel you’re fit enough to avoid a faceplant, I advise a full face. 

 

Edited by Darrell Wesh

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1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

Sorry. I've been trying to sit on my hands not to respond to this. But I can't. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, and where there is one confirming your bias, there is always some other story that won't fit nearly as well.

This is two years ago, a friend of a friend, that stopped riding while I still was a noob. The pic is lifted off the Swedish FB EUC group.

face-plant-dual.jpg.01e4ce3ba4253bbdbda0ce0db25866a5.jpg

His story was going downhill at about 22mph/36kph, with about 60% charge.
For some reason he tried to resettle his back-pack, and succeeded in pushing the pedals with his toes. He probably hit some bump at the same time, because the UEC cut off without any warning whatsoever.

So with his hands on the straps in a sudden face-plant, wearing only a normal bicycle helmet, he had no chance at all. Fractures above and below the eye on one side, the cheek on the other, the jaw bone and nose too. It took months to recover. He now wears six titanium plates where the fractures were too severe...

No more EUC for him, as he had to promise his kids that that was the end of that.

My head has kissed the ground once when falling off a EUC. That helmet is now rubbish, but the $250 paid was worth every cent. Even though I landed in a perfect stance after falling at ~20mph, the whip-like impact would have left a really nasty dent in my forehead without it.

Would I have been able to keep my head from hitting the ground without the extra 700 grams of helmet?

Well, my head weighs in at approx 11 lbs, and most grown heads are in the same ball park in the amount of wood we carry. Approx 9.5-11.5 lbs. Adding 1 or 2 lbs of helmet is of course adding some strain on the neck, but in relation we're talking about adding 15-20%. Or to put it in perspective, we put down the no.10 bowling ball and heft the no.12, that is about the actual weight difference (and the actual weight we're talking about too).

So mr @Darrell Wesh, while you're free to dislike wearing a helmet, and fully free to choose what risks you take. But don't give me that rationalizing/justifying BS about extra weight and volume, reaction times and hovering heads. You don't like helmets, FINE, don't wear them.

My personal reasoning is: You won't ever need a helmet until you actually do, and if that happens the choices you've made affects the outcome you face. Sadly you won't be able to go back to remake those choices in light of 20/20 hind-sight, so I rather have no regrets.

Sorry aboot the rant </ rant>

I remember this original post, and I think it's a great reminder. I should post this every time I see a video where a group of riders are cruising with their hands in their pockets (I won't name names here). That still blows me away, and they defend the practice!

Those two pictures though. And he was on a ventilator even? I'm guessing the first picture is immediately after and the second is after a couple of days, with swelling, etc. Scary.

Thanks for the post, really.

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On my daily commute, having ridden more or less the same route hundreds of times, I ride in work clothes and dress for weather conditions. My priority list for other occasions is 1) knees, 2) hands, 3) elbows. A helmet might be added if I think I am going to be riding on busy streets but this is rare as I can generally get where I am going using bike paths and side streets.

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