What's on your wish list for future EUC developments?

[Hsiang]

 

[Hsiang]

Admittingly I did not get very far with my own list; compatibility with some sort of standard modular and swappable battery would be nice. By they way I am still amazed that Gogoro managed to squeeze a electric motor, an extra wheel, swappable battery, a trunk and the rest of the scooter in under $2000! either Kingsong and Gotway are paying too much for their battery or they are making a lot more money off of us than we realized... 

[meepmeepmayer]

A fantastic video! Your editing/storytelling is very good. And a great trip giving a lot of new information and sights.

I don't think these steepish roads are a problem for EUCs. If EUCs slip somewhere, so will scooters, won't they? The Z just sucks at braking, so that may be where your notion comes from.

You're right, sabotage by regulation is the main (and mostly only) danger for us now (what else is an arbitrary and intentionally crippling 20kph limit, for example). The EUCs work already, after all.

Interesting to hear that Ninebot don't plan to develop any more EUCs, but somehow it's not surprising Well, some other manufacturer Gotway! can copy this type of wheel then.

1 hour ago, Hsiang said:

or they are making a lot more money off of us than we realized...

You know these 350€ Inmotion V5F and ~700€ Inmotion V10 deals? Those are Chinese prices and they are still going to make a profit on that.

Apparently a lot of the money gets lost in the chain between manufacturer to (Western) end user. Not sure what the Western prices for dealers are, though, probably they are higher than the Chinese prices as well.

Sure, there are other things like economies of scale. It is indeed ridiculous that a simple EUC with so few parts costs as much as a "real" scooter, but these are very small companies. And shipping/importing costs.

But in the end, we're paying more than we should. I hope most of the price gouging money ends up with the manufacturers so they can do more different and experimental wheels (hearing that GW will give up on the Monster and concentrate on the big sellers) - if we get ripped off, it better be for a good cause

Edited March 26, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[LanghamP]

16 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

in the end, we're paying more than we should. I hope most of the price gouging money ends up with the manufacturers so they can do more different and experimental wheels

Having known a Kingsong dealer who paid for 30 or so wheels up front to resell them, the markup by the dealer is a bit more or less than double. For example, a KS16s is under $600 wholesale to the dealer. It might have been $450.

Is this price gouging? Well, no, because it's not really and essential item like water, gasoline, or food. You can choose not to buy the wheel, and eventually you'll see a dealer break ranks and sell the wheel at 20% or so above wholesale cost. That's the major reason I've been holding off buying a fancy wheel, because I feel one of the manufacturers / dealers will eventually cave in. We've seen this historically over Ali Express until Gotway and Kingsong cracked the whip on their dealers.

We've also seen eBikes take a huge price tumble this past year, as new manufacturers saw the profit margins and entered the market.

[tenofnine]

I personally feel that these things are pretty cheap for the tech. But there is a large problem....the parts are either too rare or too inconsistent to find.

It's too hard to replace tires, batteries etc and it will continue to be until these become common and there are brick and mortar places that carry supplies.

My wish list is simple it's 2 things, the only 2 things I have issue with the current state of Electric Unicycles.

 

1. Parts should be from more common items that could already easily be found at sporting goods stores or hobby stores (i.e. more common tire, inner tube, battery packs, attachments, etc)
2. Weight reduction - The form factor is already near perfected if these things were half their current weight WOW that would be a game changer.

More customization via apps would be nice too, but it's not a huge deal breaker right now.

Some cosmetic but cool things would be spring loaded pop out pedals and remote turn on (and a spring loaded trolley handle awwww yea)

Edited March 26, 2019 by tenofnine

[Zanoni]

* Easy maintenance: Changing a tire should take 10 minutes.  Or some level of thorn puncture protection out of the box.
* Suspension: If someone could safely crack suspension on an EUC, that would be a big deal IMO.
* Integrated display on the wheel itself, which you can see while riding.
* Attachable plastic grinding plates.  Especially on EUCs with low plate height.  Kind of like rails or copers on a skateboard.
* More ultra-portable options, with decent range.

[tenofnine]

Also just want to say after fully watching this vid.

Tremendous work man, this is by far my favorite video you've done and one of my favorite YT vids I've watched in a while. Great banter, great camerawork, the editing was fantastic and the progress to locations was Casey Neistat levels of good. The only thing that was "good" not excellent was the audio but it's still clear and audible given all the different scenarios you have to film in. Impressive all around, hope everyone on here watches this vid.

[Nic]

4 hours ago, Zanoni said:

* Easy maintenance: Changing a tire should take 10 minutes.  Or some level of thorn puncture protection out of the box.
* Suspension: If someone could safely crack suspension on an EUC, that would be a big deal IMO.
* Integrated display on the wheel itself, which you can see while riding.
* Attachable plastic grinding plates.  Especially on EUCs with low plate height.  Kind of like rails or copers on a skateboard.
* More ultra-portable options, with decent range.

Pretty much the same for me. Suspension should be easy to do just make sliding L brackets to attach the pedals to, though this might affect the balance mechanism if there is too much play. Replaceable rubber bumpers to take the falls and protect the shell. Fat puncture proof tyre like the schwalbe marathon plus (a EUC version?). An integrated LCD panel with full access to all customisations, stats, and features so I don't need to use a smartphone (but still keep the bluetooth smartphone connection for use while riding and recording videos). Swappable batteries would be nice too.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Nic

[Hsiang]

 

7 hours ago, Zanoni said:

* Easy maintenance: Changing a tire should take 10 minutes.  Or some level of thorn puncture protection out of the box.
* Suspension: If someone could safely crack suspension on an EUC, that would be a big deal IMO.
* Integrated display on the wheel itself, which you can see while riding.
* Attachable plastic grinding plates.  Especially on EUCs with low plate height.  Kind of like rails or copers on a skateboard.
* More ultra-portable options, with decent range.

I agree with this list as well. I would like to see a more open design in general, it'll likely be difficult to pull off but a single side swing arm design would be awesome and allow easier wheel access and make suspension mount feasible.

I also like to see more ultra portable options; I actually still use my IPS i5 all the time, the lighter weight and smaller size is nice, but I wish that it is lighter still, and have some kind of a carrying lock mode so it doesnt accidently turn on inside of my backpack. I actually think a ,more refined and better design version of this wheel could be the model T/ iphone of the EUC world.

[eddiemoy]

No wheel can do all or satisfy all.  For me I need a wheel that is light and last mile.  But I’m fine with a big wheel for longer distance.  

Issue with price is that this is produced at low volumes. If they were more popular we would get some good wheels for under $500.  

Battery is still expensive, no way around it. They are using the top of the line batteries to squeeze out the most range.  Top of the line batteries cost an arm and a leg.  If you are ok with middle of the pack batteries, then they cost less than half.  It cost a lot to produce a bleeding edge battery with the highest capacity.  If back off 30% or so, the batteries are cheap as hell.  Very common. 

I would like a motor made from more exotic metals so it is half the weight.  Also I like a motor to be sized correctly, not used across two to 3 difference sizes. 

Although the smaller swappable battery is a good idea, it never made it with Tesla motors, they just scrapped it.  I rather be able to just rent a wheel at the location I’m visiting.  But seeing as this is super niche, it isn’t happening until it becomes mainstream.  Unfortunately I doubt it will ever happen.  

Keep up the good work with your videos.  

[Hsiang]

13 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

No wheel can do all or satisfy all.  For me I need a wheel that is light and last mile.  But I’m fine with a big wheel for longer distance.  

Issue with price is that this is produced at low volumes. If they were more popular we would get some good wheels for under $500.  

Battery is still expensive, no way around it. They are using the top of the line batteries to squeeze out the most range.  Top of the line batteries cost an arm and a leg.  If you are ok with middle of the pack batteries, then they cost less than half.  It cost a lot to produce a bleeding edge battery with the highest capacity.  If back off 30% or so, the batteries are cheap as hell.  Very common. 

I would like a motor made from more exotic metals so it is half the weight.  Also I like a motor to be sized correctly, not used across two to 3 difference sizes. 

Although the smaller swappable battery is a good idea, it never made it with Tesla motors, they just scrapped it.  I rather be able to just rent a wheel at the location I’m visiting.  But seeing as this is super niche, it isn’t happening until it becomes mainstream.  Unfortunately I doubt it will ever happen.  

Keep up the good work with your videos.  

I get the low volume argument, and I never questioned the battery cost reason until I saw the gogoro scooter. A quick Spec comparison between the MSX and the Gogopro, which is at about the same price ($2000):

MSX: 2Kw motor & 1.6Kwh battery vs

Gogoro 6.4Kw motor & 2.6Kwh batteries (2 x 1.3Kwh).

I am sure there's a vast volume difference between the production of the gogoro scooter and Gotway and that partly explain the price different.

And I am not sure how the IP around the gogoro battery works; but it would be awesome if one of the EUC manufactuer adopt it to take advantage of the lower production cost. I'll take a wheel with 1.3Kwh cell if it is swappable even if the battery subscription infrastructure don't exist here.

On 3/26/2019 at 2:20 AM, tenofnine said:

Also just want to say after fully watching this vid.

Tremendous work man, this is by far my favorite video you've done and one of my favorite YT vids I've watched in a while. Great banter, great camerawork, the editing was fantastic and the progress to locations was Casey Neistat levels of good. The only thing that was "good" not excellent was the audio but it's still clear and audible given all the different scenarios you have to film in. Impressive all around, hope everyone on here watches this vid.

Thank you!

[Smoother]

Apologies for any repeats.

Suspension

Keyed start button

Security eye to accept a serious motorcycle lock

Retractable stand

Headlight that does't blind drivers

two piece wheel rim to make tyre/inner tube changes easier

Shell halves that come apart with an 1/16th turn (like the lid of a food jar) Once pedal arms screws are removed.  Once closed the pedal arm screws would prevent unscrewing.

Brake assist (Z10 style) where pedals dip progressively in back to allow more positive feel to braking

Interchangeable "designer" side panels to allow a custom and changeable look

Upward facing beeper for safety beeps

Beeper volume control, separate for each alarm, from quiet to insanely loud, to overcome wind and road noise.

Bluetooth output of beeps/warnings to external device (someone else mentioned this)

Vibrations felt through pedals when selected speed/power warnings are met

Progressive tilt back based on calculated time to tilt back speed from current speed, so that tilt back almost always takes a gradual time, such as two seconds

Pedal release without having to do it by hand (someone mentioned this too)

Bluetooth speakers that face upwards (waterproof) so rider hears them loudest, not bystanders

EDIT: Customizable voice prompts like Inmotion.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Smoother

[tenofnine]

I just had a cool idea (I think)
A built in projector that displays your speed, mileage, battery, temp, navigation, etc in front of you on the ground. How useful would that be. Maybe it can be activated via pedal switch, phone, or when you stop

 

....oh and a cup holster and fry holster.

 

[Hsiang]

9 hours ago, tenofnine said:

 

....oh and a cup holster and fry holster.

 

LOL, I tried to install a cup holder on my maxi scooter and quickly figured out that a cup holder on a moving vehicle is just way to evenly distribute a medium cup of coffee over 50% of the scooter and you.

[BarrettJ]

10 hours ago, tenofnine said:

I just had a cool idea (I think)
A built in projector that displays your speed, mileage, battery, temp, navigation, etc in front of you on the ground. How useful would that be. Maybe it can be activated via pedal switch, phone, or when you stop

 

....oh and a cup holster and fry holster.

 

While that'd be really useful - the physics behind projecting light bright enough to be seen on a frequently dark surface (black asphalt) during the middle of the day sunshine aren't going to cooperate very well.   This is a similar flaw to the cicret bracelet that was making the rounds a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbgvSi35n6o

[Jason McNeil]

On 3/25/2019 at 9:11 PM, Hsiang said:

By they way I am still amazed that Gogoro managed to squeeze a electric motor, an extra wheel, swappable battery, a trunk and the rest of the scooter in under $2000!

Gogoro is an absolutely awesome scooter, I when started eWheels, when things were much slower than today  (this is late 2015), I contacted them about bringing the product to the US), at the time they weren't ready for a global roll-out. I believe I read somewhere that that this $2000 sticker price was with a subsidy from the Taiwanese government. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Jason McNeil

[Hsiang]

2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Gogoro is an absolutely awesome scooter, I when started eWheels, when things were much slower than today  (this is late 2015), I contacted them about bringing the product to the US), at the time they weren't ready for a global roll-out. I believe I read somewhere that that this $2000 sticker price was with a subsidy from the Taiwanese government. 

Not sure how much subsidy is invovled but I'd be willing to pay a decent premium even over that $2000 price tag to have it here in NYC. I found article about them possibly brining it to the US but nothing seems have came of it. Perhaps you can reach out to them again as they now seem firmly established in the Taiwan market, I saw them everywhere as oppose to only occasionally from a few years ago.

And given the crazy valuation of Bird and Lime, I am very surprised that there are no talks of brining Wemo here. The Taiwanese seems to be the opposite of the chinese where they have good product and services but are very conservative when it comes to pushing them out to the international market.

[Rama Douglas]

A gyro for the headlight would rock! The XL has a great light, but when on a slope (up or down), it can be useless...

[Smoother]

9 hours ago, Rama Douglas said:

A gyro for the headlight would rock! The XL has a great light, but when on a slope (up or down), it can be useless...

But wouldn't a gyro for the light simply keep the light level?  To some extent it already has a gyro' the wheel itself. 

Seriously, what you/we want is something that knows hills from flats.  I'm not sure how they would be implement that because the wheel itself can't tell the difference either. I thought some combination of speed and power used/generated could be used by an algorithm, but the same hill can be ridden 20 different ways, each with a different speed/power signature. And that doesn't account for wind either.

It might boil down to a simple thumb wheel on top of the shell that the rider can use to adjust the light to suit. Crude I know, but anything complicated adds expense.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Smoother

[tenofnine]

32 minutes ago, Smoother said:

But wouldn't a gyro for the light simply keep the light level?  To some extent it already has a gyro' the wheel itself. 

Seriously, what you/we want is something that knows hills from flats.  I'm not sure how they would be implement that because the wheel itself can't tell the difference either. I though some combination of speed and power used/generated could be used by an algorithm, but the same hill can be ridden 20 different ways, each with a different speed/power signature. And that doesn't account for wind either.

It might boil down to a simple thumb wheel on top of the shell that the rider can use to adjust the light to suit. Crude, I know but anything complicated adds expense.

I would guess you could just simply have it based of Watt Usage over Speed. Calibrate it for you weight + any load....then the light servos can move based on more power usage per mph (pitch up) and less power usage per mph (pitch down).

I imagine this all could be utilized on a headlight for a wheel same as those luxury cars that have the autonomous moving lights. Seems like added weight and maintenance though.

Wrist light works wonders in the mean time.

[Nic]

This e-scooter is basically a unicycle with handlebars ... and it has suspension!  ... should be simple enough to add similar suspension to our EUCs.

 

[tenofnine]

6 hours ago, Nic said:

This e-scooter is basically a unicycle with handlebars ... and it has suspension!  ... should be simple enough to add similar suspension to our EUCs.

 

This thing is actually garbage, I don't know how this guy even got it to look that good. My experience with it was one of the worst with any PEV I've ever had (These are available in some select Wal-Marts and online).

There is a Russian guy that added very high tension springs to his MCM 3 pedals via a double swinging arm connection. It seemed to work okay but oscillated way too much and the pedals seemed to scrape a lot.

I think adding shocks to the pedal pillars somehow would be a good idea, but there has to be an obvious reason why it hasn't been done yet. It might mess with the motor, the balance or cause too much maintenance.

What would give a really smooth ride is an EUC made with one of those fat tires. More air = better cushion and you could ride it on lower PSI to negate a lot of bumpiness. Honestly I never have any problems with ride comfort, I only ever notice it when I go off-road on an EUC. On the other hand my e-scooter is awkward to ride by comparison and that actually has dual suspension (airless 8" tires) but I feel almost every bump.

Edited April 8, 2019 by tenofnine

[who_the]

 

[tenofnine]

9 minutes ago, who_the said:

 

Yea there was a longer video of the same MCM 3 mod posted in Slavic that showed it not working as well on varied terrain. Maybe this one had tighter springs, seems to work better in this demo.