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So it begins...first foray into EUC oddness


Planemo

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As long as you stay polite, and don't go personal I am cool. 

You will never find me going personal on anyone first.

And yes, I have a life. Going to have breakfast in paradise. Coming back to Chernobyl (i.e.  Canada) next week.

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Edited by pico
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Well that escalated somewhat.

Anyway, I am coming to the opinion that the stock 'be careful' warning is going to send me mental at some point so I was thinking of changing the sounds. Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me get the wheel to connect to the Inmotion app. Its does try, but brings up an error message and then force closes the app. Connecting to Wheelog is faultless, every time, showing all data. Anyone got any ideas? 

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2 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Well that escalated somewhat.

Anyway, I am coming to the opinion that the stock 'be careful' warning is going to send me mental at some point so I was thinking of changing the sounds. Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me get the wheel to connect to the Inmotion app. Its does try, but brings up an error message and then force closes the app. Connecting to Wheelog is faultless, every time, showing all data. Anyone got any ideas? 

try closing the wheelog app completely on you phone.  They may be fighting each other, with wheelog winning because possibly you opened it first

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14 minutes ago, Smoother said:

try closing the wheelog app completely on you phone.  They may be fighting each other, with wheelog winning because possibly you opened it first

Out of interest what does Wheellog do (I have a 16S) that Darknessbot doesn't? Should I be using both?

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13 minutes ago, Jambo said:

Out of interest what does Wheellog do (I have a 16S) that Darknessbot doesn't? Should I be using both?

WheelLog is for Android so you probably won't be interested in that.

The most striking difference between the two is that WheelLog is integrated with Pebble watch so you can get all your vital information from a glance at your watch. This includes custom speed/temperature/current alarms that can be configured to buzz your arm when they are exceeded. I used this feature all of the time.

Edited by Marty Backe
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I had already tried closing down wheelog completely. Also restarted the phone. Wheel always shows up no problem in bluetooth settings. In fact everything looks perfect. Just the poxy inmotion app refuses to play ball.

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The Ninebot app is amazing, especially compared to the inmotion (plus I really love the lock feature). I wish all wheel apps were as snappy, but it doesn't have settings for pedal angle or custom sounds like inmotion :(

I was always able to get my V5F to connect to the inmotion app after a few tries and it always would work at the end of the day but damn did it take 3-4 tries sometimes.

Wheellog was the same way for me at first. I had to power cycle my phone and the V5F and then clear the cache on the app....then it finally connected. After it married it would connect everytime though.

Edited by tenofnine
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On 3/24/2019 at 3:18 AM, tenofnine said:

The Ninebot app is amazing, especially compared to the inmotion (plus I really love the lock feature). I wish all wheel apps were as snappy, but it doesn't have settings for pedal angle or custom sounds like inmotion :(

I was always able to get my V5F to connect to the inmotion app after a few tries and it always would work at the end of the day but damn did it take 3-4 tries sometimes.

Wheellog was the same way for me at first. I had to power cycle my phone and the V5F and then clear the cache on the app....then it finally connected. After it married it would connect everytime though.

Yes.  Bluetooth can be solid as a rock or fickle as a (something fickle :huh:) To use a common English word, as @tenofnine mentioned, you might have to "pfaff" about with it for a while before it submits to your will.  I think Bluetooth is much more likely to be the culprit than the App.

Having said that, do you have the right version of the App from the right source? No I know not of either, I just know that some other Apps's stability is based on those criteria.

Edited by Smoother
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Ok a little update...we were kinda forced into the garden given that Mrs P was becoming considerably agitated at paint marks being taken out of her kitchen cupboards...I know I know you all warned me..! Anyway, we are doing well in the garden, we have a 70' run on a concrete path plus a fair amount of grass which is obviously a lot trickier than the path but we seem to be doing ok, I can manage the entire length of the path and turn around on the grass to come back and do that a few times before my feet start aching a bit. No2 is a little bit behind but she is doing well. No1 not so good, but he refuses to listen to advice and thinks he knows better! I think we will reach the limits of the garden soon so will head to the tennis courts to extend our skills, once we have outgrown the courts I think we will be onto trying our first 'open' path which will be somewhat nerve racking but at some point we will need to overcome the fear of not having something to grab onto should we need it. I have spent a lot of time practising mounting/dismounting as I feel this is an essential skill which comes before the ability to ride well - I read of some people who are very good at riding but still struggle with setting off without something to hold onto which seems a backward step to me. I would rather not get caught out, and I can now do both without help. No2 not so well, but I think with kids they just want to get on and ride rather than do the boring, repetitive stuff! We all had wrist guards on even in the garden, might as well get them used to them now.

So all in all, quite pleased with how everyone is doing, and we are enjoying the wheel immensely. Even Mrs P said she would like to learn (you can imagine how overjoyed I was to hear this) but she is very reluctant because she has issues with her knees and does not want to risk it just yet. I do understand this, when stressed they can lock up which is extremely painful for her but I have said that we can take things real easy and I will give her all the support (literally) she needs. She is thinking about it.

The only ongoing problem is the Inmotion app which I still cannot get to work. I have been searching the web and it seems like I am not the only one, and that the wheel could be region locked. This has really annoyed me tbh, I didnt think this would be the case when I bought the wheel but it looks like I am stuffed. The factory warning sounds I can live with at a push, but if the speed is locked that will be more of an issue. Can anyone confirm if this is the case with the V5F? I know the bigger, faster wheels are often locked but I wasnt sure if the V5F would be given its quite a slow wheel anyway? I am not confident to ride it up to max speed just yet, but holding it off the ground and slowly running it up, it gets to and holds 13mph ok (on Wheelog) but 14mph seems to be the tripping point for the overspeed. I appreciate this is not a very accurate method though. I have read that max speed for the V5F is around 25kmh (15.5mph) which doesnt seem that far below what I am getting now? Doesnt seem worth it to put a speed restriction on for 2 odd mph? I am almost of the opinion that this discrepancy could be taken up by my non-scientific method of holding the wheel up and the accuracy of the speed in wheelog. If anyone has a definitive answer to whether the wheel is restricted or not I would be very grateful as if it isnt, I will probably forget about ever using the Inmotion app as I dont think theres anything else I really need to change. At this point I dont feel I need to play with footplate angles either.

For info, I have seen some people suggesting to try starting the app in airplane mode then switching on bluetooth but this doesnt work as the first thing you have to do before even connecting is sign in. I can only assume that earlier versions of the app had this loophole but they have since written out the ability to do this.

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Woah hang fire! I have just managed to get the app working! I went into settings, changed the language to english (although much of it was before I did this) the app said it had to restart and on booting up again it instantly found my wheel! Out of interest I went to the speed setting and it was already on max (25kmh) but at least it seems to be working...for the moment...

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On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 7:53 PM, Marty Backe said:

The most striking difference between the two is that WheelLog is integrated with Pebble watch so you can get all your vital information from a glance at your watch. This includes custom speed/temperature/current alarms that can be configured to buzz your arm when they are exceeded. I used this feature all of the time.

Hey Marty, just saying, perhaps you dont know:

One of the big points for DarknessBot is, that it is for apple watch. So all the Features you mentioned are available "from a glance at your watch", too.

 

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1 hour ago, US69 said:

Hey Marty, just saying, perhaps you dont know:

One of the big points for DarknessBot is, that it is for apple watch. So all the Features you mentioned are available "from a glance at your watch", too.

 

Thanks. I didn't know that. So you can set a 90-amp current alarm and the Apple watch will buzz on your wrist?

Too bad the Apple watches are so expensive (relative to a Pebble).

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5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thanks. I didn't know that. So you can set a 90-amp current alarm and the Apple watch will buzz on your wrist?

Too bad the Apple watches are so expensive (relative to a Pebble).

Amperage Alarms are on Darkness Bot, but honestly i dont know if especially the amp Alarm is on the watch, cause...as you said, too bad they are so expensive :-( 

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Too bad the Apple watches are so expensive 

There are cheaper (and healthier) versions. ;)

40506745473_8e37ec8f20_b.jpg

 

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Love hearing your (entire family's!) progress.

3 hours ago, Planemo said:

I think we will reach the limits of the garden soon so will head to the tennis courts to extend our skills, once we have outgrown the courts I think we will be onto trying our first 'open' path which will be somewhat nerve racking but at some point we will need to overcome the fear of not having something to grab onto should we need it. I have spent a lot of time practising mounting/dismounting as I feel this is an essential skill which comes before the ability to ride well - I read of some people who are very good at riding but still struggle with setting off without something to hold onto which seems a backward step to me. I would rather not get caught out, and I can now do both without help. No2 not so well, but I think with kids they just want to get on and ride rather than do the boring, repetitive stuff! We all had wrist guards on even in the garden, might as well get them used to them now.

You don't need anything to hang on to because you will be much, much faster. Speed stabilizes you, and it is what you should be going for whenever you feel you're falling over.

Your kids (and especially No2) got it right. Riding is much easier than mounting, so you (should) learn it first. Also gives a motivating sense of achievement right away. And you will learn mounting really fast when you have to (because you're starting in the open and have no choice). All that slow, methodical dillydalliing around is almost counterproductive. Kids got it right - just go for it. Don't do things where you feel seriously unsafe, but otherwise, nothing is more fun and makes you learn faster than getting out of your comfort zone and challenging yourself. If the answer to the question "Will I predictably have a bad crash if I try this" is "No", then just do whatever it is.

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I get what you're saying, although I'm not sure I came across properly. I dont think any of us will need to grab something when we finally get out in the open and are 'mid-ride'. We dont really do that now. What I meant was that I think its fairly important to be able to mount/set off/dismount prior to going out in the open, because it might not always be possible to find a handy pole or wall. I get that at the worst way you can just bring your speed down and bail out but at the very least it will send the wheel onto its side for yet another round of scratches/cracks. And if you cant set off without help you could be in real trouble depending on where you are. I liken it to flying a helicopter - you dont transition into foward flight until you have mastered hovering.

I do agree though when it comes to kids - their attention span is significantly shorter than most adults and if they aint moving they are getting bored! I also noticed that the kids diving straight into foward flight meant that when they did spend a (little) time on mounting etc, they were getting the hang of it quicker than I did because they were used to how the wheel handled immediately after the foot on plate moment.

I'm not sure one way is 'better' than the other for adults though, but I do think its beneficial to have the ability to mount etc prior to going open, despite the temptation to just start from a pole, carry on riding and never stopping!

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2 hours ago, Planemo said:

because it might not always be possible to find a handy pole or wall

There is always something to hold onto. You may have to walk a few yards but there is always something. The only place with nothing to hold onto would be a desert. Last time I looked at your town, I saw no deserts.;)

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 I also started by learning mounting/dismounting 1st. I did it by trying to ride on one leg and leaving the other pedal folded. I did it for 5 half-hour sessions ( and a five-minute one before breaking my wheel). On day 7 I spent half the time on one leg and half the time working on trying to do two. It worked famously. The first half of this video I'm using one leg with the other pedal folded.

 

 

Edited by tessa25
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1 hour ago, Planemo said:

I dunno mate, the QE2 field (nearest to me) is pretty barren!

Point taken though :)

The trick with a large open space is to try to stay near one of the mounting points, so you don't have to walk too far.  This was essential for me because my starter wheel was tiny with no trolley.  Wheeling it back became back breaking.  With a trolley it's a doddle. An open space gives you lots of room to waddle about without hitting anything.  As you waddle you slowly pick up skills and abilities which allow you to control the direction more and more, so you can stay even closer to your mounting points.  But, from your previous report, it sounds like the directional skills are coming along, so guiding the wheel should not be much of a problem at all.  Once in an open space do LOTS and LOTS of circles and figure eights.  Figure eights get you turning both ways AND transitioning from one to the other.  You can make some of them long figure eights where you ride straight for a few metres before starting the other turn. The ability to turn at will, accurately is essential.  Once accurate turning is accomplished, you are ready to ride anywhere (more or less) and you will be ready to take on more challenges like off-road riding, etc.

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Tessa: Wow that's a nice flat open space you had there! And it does indeed seem like you got your riding nailed pretty quick using the method you did. I saw the same method used on an instructional YouTube video too - maybe UStride.

Smoother - yep  I think you are dead right there - we need to get to a place very soon where we can practise endless figure 8's. There's only so much we can do in my back garden, which only has around 20' of width available to use, and the grass is pretty lumpy. If I can find a way to post a short vid I will, No2 is ever so pleased with herself haha!

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21 hours ago, Planemo said:

What I meant was that I think its fairly important to be able to mount/set off/dismount prior to going out in the open, because it might not always be possible to find a handy pole or wall. I get that at the worst way you can just bring your speed down and bail out but at the very least it will send the wheel onto its side for yet another round of scratches/cracks. And if you cant set off without help you could be in real trouble depending on where you are. I liken it to flying a helicopter - you dont transition into foward flight until you have mastered hovering.

EUC, like bicycles, have a stall speed whereby they are hard to control below that. In addition, you're trying to control the wheel with just one foot while not having a very good idea of where your feet should go when fully mounted.

This is the equivalent of taking off on a bicycle with no hands and not touching the seat. Interestingly, I can do that quite easily, which leads me to believe that mounting is a fairly advanced skill.

Learn to ride first, learn also to bail from your wheel, learn to idle, then finally learn to mount. Easy things first.

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14 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

This is the equivalent of taking off on a bicycle with no hands and not touching the seat

That's a great image, and great analogy. Of course once moving, not touching the seat or handlebars is easier to do.

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I think idling is actually pretty difficult. I have been trying to do a little bit each time I stop but I am finding it pretty tricky. More effort needed.

I just did a little video just to see if it all worked ok. Hope it does!

 

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