EUC Crash @ 40 MPH (Was: Please wear safety gear)

[kasenutty]

I think it's pretty simple. If I'm changing my tire and a guy hits me, he's wrong. If I'm riding my bike and hit a guy changing his tire, he's wrong  

[Smoother]

49 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

I think it's pretty simple. If I'm changing my tire and a guy hits me, he's wrong. If I'm riding my bike and hit a guy changing his tire, he's wrong  

Zonked, are we?

[kasenutty]

Usually 

[Joker10]

I always have that what would happen to the people around me thought on my mind when riding.  It’s one thing if I hurt myself.  I really don’t want to be responsible for someone else’s injury.  I don’t like to buzz the pedestrians, I don’t want to startle them, and I enjoy talking to people who want to know more about the wheel.  I live in a hilly area and on one occasion my ninebot one started down a hill without me on it.  It was going towards a car, I had to catch up and knock it over.  I realized then that a person getting taken off their feet by a wheel could cause life threatening injuries, especially a child.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Joker10

[Smoother]

8 hours ago, Joker10 said:

 I live in a hilly area and my ninebot one started down a hill without me on it.  It was going towards a car,

True, better to make friends than enemies.  IF you are concerned about a run away wheel on hills (and we all should be) May I suggest you consider a temporary tether, just for those down hills that concern you.  I used to tether all the time on  wheel #1 but I never transferred it to wheel #2 and got out of the habit.  I did have a run away wheel on a steep hill on #2 and that wheel turned into an effing missile, often bouncing to head height; It almost hit a walker but he got out of the way. If it had hit him I would have been in serious trouble.  Luckily i was in the country and there was nothing else to hit, but the wheel took a bashing. So even if just for the wheel's sake, something to stop a potentially expensive run away is a good idea. I approach hills with pedestrians or property completely differently now. I don't want to find out what happens when my wheel injures someone, or damages something.

FYI at the bottom of that hill was a cliff with a long drop to the sea.  Fortunately tall stinging nettles about, 70m down the hill, arrested its journey, but it was a pain to find it and retrieve it.

[travsformation]

15 hours ago, Smoother said:

Nah! Langham's dude was in the wrong (illegal and wreckless riding on side walk, and he knew it) in my example you are in the right, the scooter rider is in the wrong, And besides, if he decided to get boysterous, you'd be in your element anyway, and the law would also be on your side: out of control scooter rider clips "innocent" pedestrian and then attacks said pedestrian, pedestrian defends himself.  You're an innocent victim AND a hero; another win win, both for you.  We all know how unpredictable pedestrians are, there is no way your "random" movement could be proved deliberate.

Excellent points. And not that you mention it, I appear to have developed a nervous tick in my left elbow.

[Dan NYC]

On 3/19/2019 at 7:52 PM, Marty Backe said:

Cool. Me wants. I'm now looking for shoulder-only type protection that I can add to my existing elbow pads, etc. My Leatt 5.5 body armor is great, but it's not so great for trail riding or any conditions where you are exerting yourself, because it's heavy and slightly restricting. So I get exhausted quicker when wearing it. I want a lighter solution for my shoulders.

Since I'm now paranoid about my shoulders (as I expect you are, plus 10), this looks fantastic.

I could buy a nice wheel for what I've been spending on safety gear. But we both know it's actually cheap in the long run. And it's like lenses for nice cameras - you keep your lenses while moving to new cameras.

@Marty Backe i got this and highly recommend it.  Very breathable, comfortable and CE rated.  https://www.backcountry.com/alpinestars-evolution-jacket-long-sleeve.  Actually wear it over my dress shirt to and from work in NYC.  the 50% off sale helped.

[Darrell Wesh]

I found this interesting from segways Instagram: a race where everybody loses 

[Marty Backe]

35 minutes ago, Dan NYC said:

@Marty Backe i got this and highly recommend it.  Very breathable, comfortable and CE rated.  https://www.backcountry.com/alpinestars-evolution-jacket-long-sleeve.  Actually wear it over my dress shirt to and from work in NYC.  the 50% off sale helped.

Yeah, I already have something similar (Leatt 5.5). I was interested in the shoulder pad only solution (for certain types of riding) that @Rehab1 showed. I could never get his attention regards my follow-up questions, but have since decided against it since something must be worn on top of it to keep the pads in place. The search continues.

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I found this interesting from segways Instagram: a race where everybody loses 

This is hilarious. I wonder what Duf would think about Ninebot sanctioning races where everyone gets the opportunity to break some bones.

At least they forced these people to put helmets on.

[Darrell Wesh]

35 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

This is hilarious. I wonder what Duf would think about Ninebot sanctioning races where everyone gets the opportunity to break some bones.

At least they forced these people to put helmets on.

Although as we know not much good that style helmet will do against a cutout faceplant...

[Darrell Wesh]

I can only imagine that this is what it looks like to ride a cutout: he’s forcing the wheel to tilt down after the tiltback tries to throw him off 😂

[Joker10]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Yeah, I already have something similar (Leatt 5.5). I was interested in the shoulder pad only solution (for certain types of riding) that @Rehab1 showed. I could never get his attention regards my follow-up questions, but have since decided against it since something must be worn on top of it to keep the pads in place. The search continues.

I have been wearing a mesh motorcycle jacket for the time being. It has pretty good shoulder padding but seems like most of it is in the rear and sides of the shoulders.  A little thin in the front.  I experienced a level 3 shoulder separation in a mountain bike accident.  Don’t want to do that again.  Painful and slow recovery.  I was interested in the picture that rehab posted too didn’t think about the shoulder pads bouncing around till you mentioned it.  As you said the search continues.  

[Joker10]

12 hours ago, Smoother said:

  IF you are concerned about a run away wheel on hills (and we all should be) May I suggest you consider a temporary tether, just for those down hills that concern you.  I used to tether all the time on  wheel #1 but I never transferred it to wheel #2 and got out of the habit.  I did have a run away wheel on a steep hill on #2 and that wheel turned into an effing missile, often bouncing to head height; It almost hit a walker but he got out of the way. If it had hit him I would have been in serious trouble.  Luckily i was in the country and there was nothing else to hit, but the wheel took a bashing. So even if just for the wheel's sake, something to stop a potentially expensive run away is a good idea.

I used a retractable dog leash for a while after that.  I have since just really taken it easy going down hills where the wheel could get away.  Mine didn’t go over a 70’ cliff into stinging nettles.

[Nic]

 

[Rama Douglas]

On 3/20/2019 at 7:04 PM, Marty Backe said:

My feelings won't be hurt (if they were, brokeback mountain would have done me in a long time ago )

 

Hahaha! Too funny...

[Marty Backe]

21 minutes ago, Joker10 said:

I have been wearing a mesh motorcycle jacket for the time being. It has pretty good shoulder padding but seems like most of it is in the rear and sides of the shoulders.  A little thin in the front.  I experienced a level 3 shoulder separation in a mountain bike accident.  Don’t want to do that again.  Painful and slow recovery.  I was interested in the picture that rehab posted too didn’t think about the shoulder pads bouncing around till you mentioned it.  As you said the search continues.  

Yeah, shoulder injuries are a pain. As you may know, I broke mine in November. Going to physical therapy twice a week. I'm hoping not to repeat this.

I have a motorcycle jacket which is decent for around town riding, and I have my full armor for full-up riding. But the full armor starts to take a toll on the body after a few hours of riding.

I just bought this Leatt Shoulder Shirt for the shoulders, and I'll wear separate elbow pads and wrist guards to cover all the bases. I think this might be ideal for hot weather riding.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Rehab1]

10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Yeah, shoulder injuries are a pain. As you may know, I broke mine in November. Going to physical therapy twice a week. I'm hoping not to repeat this.

I have a motorcycle jacket which is decent for around town riding, and I have my full armor for full-up riding. But the full armor starts to take a toll on the body after a few hours of riding.

I just bought this Leatt Shoulder Shirt for the shoulders, and I'll wear separate elbow pads and wrist guards to cover all the bases. I think this might be ideal for hot weather riding.

I returned the football shoulder pads and was considering the Leatt Shoulder shirt as well. I’m glad you will be testing it out. If you can escape injury after running into a wall at 25mph I’ll be sold.  

We all know the shoulder with it’s unique ball and socket joint that is extremely complex. No other joint in our body offers this vast range of motion. Protecting it from various angles of impact proves difficult. 

I am going to revisit the humeral fracture orthosis I fit to myself after my accident. It was wishful thinking back then that I could avoid surgery but now the orthosis, after a few shock absorbing padding mods, may offer the prophylactic protection I’m looking for. A plus is the device can easily be worn under a shirt. 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Rehab1

[LanghamP]

On 3/20/2019 at 11:10 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

I agree with @Marty Backe, no harm done in racing little EUC’s at what was likely the actual speed limit on that road that cars would be going at. We say this word racing so much but you cannot compare this to cars and motorcycles weighing hundreds to thousands of pounds racing on a public street completely disrespecting the speed limit. 

I'm with you and @Marty BackeBacke on this one, but also a bit with @Duf.

First of all, geared up like that on a high performance vehicle (EUC, skateboard, motorcycle, whatever) is what I like to call "looking for trouble". Interestingly, on those vehicles you have to make a concious decision to gear up but the default of all modern cars and trucks is already "looking for trouble". That is, autos with all their safety features render their drivers as "looking for trouble", which is why driver aggression is a statistical certainty.

The danger to bystanders is the number of joules going into their body. Therefore, why not base speed limits on max joules on a particular road?

Say a 6000 pound SUV going at 20 mph has a certain number of joules. Calculate the same for a 50 pound EUC, and that's the safe speed limit. Do the same with a light compact car, and so on for each vehicle.

If the speed limit there was 45 mph for, presumably, SUVs, then the same speed limit for an EUC would be the equivalent joules. That'd be about the same amount of damage should you hit someone.

[travsformation]

4 hours ago, LanghamP said:

If the speed limit there was 45 mph for, presumably, SUVs, then the same speed limit for an EUC would be the equivalent joules. That'd be about the same amount of damage should you hit someone.

Wouldn't that make for speed limits WAY above the max. speed of any current wheel?

Also...you might be overestimating the intellect of city legislators...

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Wouldn't that make for speed limits WAY above the max. speed of any current wheel?

These may be bad but they are not fatal.

These are often fatal (note the kids at 2:20).

It's hard to take public service announcements by the safety crowd to be more careful (when riding an EUC, skateboard, or bicycle) because it's extremely rare for those vehicles to have enough energy to punch through someone's body.

If you lecture people to ride more careful, then hop in your truck, turn on the radio, Bluetooth your phone, drive while fumbling with your drink, talk to your passengers, and go ten mph over the speed limit, and don't have a commercial license, chances are that you are hundreds of times more likely to kill or injure bystanders than an EUC rider.

Make all vehicles about equally dangerous or ban them from being around people.

Edited March 27, 2019 by LanghamP

[eddiemoy]

Hmmm... I would chalk this up to what they call temporary insanity.  As you get older it happens less often.  

@Darrell Wesh, I agree the EUC is much more maneuverable than most other transports, but there are situations that you cannot get out of no matter what level of skill you are at.  A few folks in our NYC group have been T boned in traffic.  I nearly got the same treatment if they didn’t brake in time.  I’ve also had someone pull out right in front of me as I was going full speed.  Luckily it was far enough that I was able to shave off some speed and go around.  Similar to a manuver you described.  Definitely couldn’t brake in time.  I think a few folks had this happen where a car pull in front of them and they just had no way out and cannot brake in time, resulting in them crashing into the car or biker.  This is how many motorcyclist die, crashing into a car that pull right in front of them.  They teach it at the motorcycle class little you can do.

Cant we all just get along???  LOL

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

a few folks had this happen where a car pull in front of them and they just had no way out and cannot brake in time, resulting in them crashing into the car or biker. 

This is one reason why an energy based speed limit wouldn’t work. A vehicle approaching a situation a lot faster than the others doesn’t give others enough time to react.

I notice this on every ride. If a car has to yield for a bicycle when turning, they won’t know to prepare for a fast EUC. I constantly scare drivers who then do a panic braking, although I am always ready to stop in case they don’t see me.

Same with pedestrians. Although I pass them very slowly, I’m just suddenly there.

Edited March 28, 2019 by mrelwood

[eddiemoy]

22 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

This is one reason why an energy based speed limit wouldn’t work. A vehicle approaching a situation a lot faster than the others doesn’t give others enough time to react.

I notice this on every ride. If a car has to yield for a bicycle when turning, they won’t know to prepare for a fast EUC. I constantly scare drivers who then do a panic braking, although I am always ready to stop in case they don’t see me.

That happen to me.  I was on the bike lane to the left.  This SUV thought that he could just turn left and pulled infront and turned to the left and realized he couldn’t turn safely and did an emergency brake.  I thought for sure I was going to hit him. But I was able to shave off almost all the speed and just pushed off of his driver door right at the end.  Heart was pounding from the adrenalin rush.  

But if some car were to come out from the side and you cannot see the car, there would be no way to avoid a crash in that situation.  Just cannot stop that quickly.  Nothing can.  

[mrelwood]

13 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

But if some car were to come out from the side and you cannot see the car, there would be no way to avoid a crash in that situation.

That is exactly why I always expect a car (or a small child learning on a bicycle) to come out of every side street, yard, corner etc. unless I can confirm 100% that a car, motorbike or a bicycle is not coming. Or a car turning without signaling, or that a parked car’s door may pop open at any time, etc. That’s why I don’t quite understand most ”car blocked me and I was forced to crash” topics on this forum.

I don’t trust my health in other peoples’ hands when I’m in traffic on an EUC. I don’t care the slightest whose fault a crash would be, I’m not going to be in one.

Edited March 28, 2019 by mrelwood