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Kevin Graehl

Open Letter to inmotion, after my 4th full speed faceplant for no good reason

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this is a review i sent..on their website, after emails went nowhere... now for sale  $550 San francisco..  Or might just find in trash in front of my house if i'm stupid to ride above 14 mph and crash and go the the doctor again when i'm healed up:)

 

 

 

I know it sounds like i'm complaining.   I love this thing. Its light, compact , and almost fast enough.  It just lets me down and faceplants me at full 18-19 mph if there is a small bump in the road.  It doesn't have enough reserve to keep me upright. Before Purchasing at my local SF store * great shop/People, I asked if my height/fulcrum would be too much for this motor/ battery/ Controller.   I've had 4 superman slides at full speed in 2 months of having.. 250 miles total.

 

Love it.   It's not a warranty thing.  I would have purchased the larger model if they were straight with me on the phone.   I Race Motocross in the intermediate/ expert levels, I have and electrical engineering background,  I'm not stupid. I tried to get Inmotion to work with me for a discounted upgrade to something with more power after spending  nearly a 1000 bucks. Would have been happy with not being a beta tester for how to overload the Speed control/ batt/ motor being a giant I am.  I was assured it would be fine..

 

Not one crash was on a hill..   A few going down when it gets a 4 hertz oscillation/vibration back and forth going down a hill using braking.---  it will throw you off sometimes ... Its trying its best but can only do so much.. All the Gotways i've ridden are buttery smooth downhills with bumps.   If you want to try to reach out to me... doubt you will allow this post to be made00 you might moderate and delete it?

  Im sick of crashing..   while at near top speed.   Sure i could throttle the limit to 14 mph and never crash,  but i'd rather ride my m365 scooter or bosch bike, or my street bike..  Thats too slow.. Work with me here. I'm scared to ride it anymore, and don't want to send in for warranty..

 Another two I test rode exhibited the same behaviors downhills or flat with bumps..  about 30 close calls with oscillations, only 3 were faceplants.. the 4th faceplant was me having road rage after a driver honked at my gf for driving too slow in front of me on her motorcycle..  I kept leaning , and should have not put so much weight forward.. yet no beeps. so only half my fault. This thing scares the crap out of me. I don't trust it.. I've had a segway i2.. i trusted that..  So much failsafe. This thing, not so much..

 

415 341 2281  kevingraehl@fb.com   

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Thanks for sharing your experiences.  Sorry you've been hurt.  I also have a v8, purchased used 5+ months ago.  Been commuting everyday to work and haven't face planted yet.  I also ride at top speed.  I put the v10 pedals on mine which made a big difference.  I have fallen and crashed multiple times, all my fault, but never face planted.  One was due to clipping a speed bump unintentionally.   Didn't have my larger pedals then.  I feel like if I would have had my larger pedals then, I would have been able to stay on even though the unicycle was wobbling.

 

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I'm surprised there aren't more people who quit due to the danger of city traffic.  I've dialed my usage back in high traffic environments and will use sidewalks more now.  

I'm about 190lbs and have experienced the same oscillation I think you're describing.  I'm much more conservative about taking bumps at speed on the V8 than my 18S.  

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9 minutes ago, DanCar said:

Thanks for sharing your experiences.  Sorry you've been hurt.  I also have a v8, purchased used 5+ months ago.  Been commuting everyday to work and haven't face planted yet.  I also ride at top speed.  I put the v10 pedals on mine which made a big difference.  I have fallen and crashed multiple times, all my fault, but never face planted.  One was due to clipping a speed bump unintentionally.   Didn't have my larger pedals then.  I feel like if I would have had my larger pedals then, I would have been able to stay on even though the unicycle was wobbling.

interesting..  the wobble is from not enough contact with feet.. makes possible sense... i'm a size 13 shoe.. i think that makes it worse..   HUMMMMMM

 

9 minutes ago, DanCar said:

 

 

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That sucks Kevin. I face planted myself over in San Gabriel about three weeks ago. I know for a fact that it had to do something with the wheel.

Long story short, I made a right turn then started accelerating. The wheel just threw me off, btw I didn't get any warning beeps. Since I had my gear on I only got minor bruises.

It's just weird that after a year of riding and over 2k worth of miles, I face planted with no rhyme or reason.

I still ride my V8 but I just don't feel as safe on it as I once used to.

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@Kevin Graehl

I am a bit surprised...you say this isnt a warranty thing?

When i read your faceplant reports...the wheel just cuting off without warning, this definitly is a one or two bad cell behaviour.

If each and every wheel would behave like that -small roadbump can lead to cutoff- all of this community would not love EUC riding that much.

On all my former and actual 11! wheels from different brands i -fortunatly- had never had such a bad behaviour!!!

 

So i would definitly check for a defect and give riding an EUC a chance!!

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That Last Mile SF company doesn't give any kind of warranty to return it? 

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@Kevin Graehl if you don't mind sharing, how much do you weigh?  Ewheels advises against anybody over 220 lb from riding the Glide 3, even though inmotion says the max weight is 260.  That concerns me quite a bit too actually so I have been riding it very conservatively myself and I haven't had any problems yet. I am about 245 lb all suited up.  Ewheels recommends that I have a more powerful motor and higher-capacity battery for extra safety at my weight, see this page https://www.ewheels.com/choosing-an-electric-unicycle-with-the-right-battery-pack-for-you/

I wish I had got a more powerful wheel to start with for the safety margin if nothing else but then again $900 is a lot of money to drop on a new hobbyvyou are not certain if you are really going to stick with or not, and especially if the marketing material leads you to believe that it would be sufficient for your weight.

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19 hours ago, Kevin Graehl said:

i'm a size 13 shoe.. i think that makes it worse..   HUMMMMMM

Since A Size 13 shoe and 150lbs don't seem to match up very well, I sense that you must be a man of s,ubstantial physical stature. If this is true that tiny little V8 thingy might just not be enough to support a large guy who wants to push the wheel. Still there should be some warning from the wheel. If your warnings are set,  repeated Sudden cutouts sounds like malfunction; not misuse.

I am about 6' 1", 220lbs. I would feel quite unsafe pushing a V8 outside of a little light riding and a little tricking in my front yard :D. I feel much safer on a wheel with an abundance of reserve power and lots of range. 

 

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guess i'm asking too much from it..   I didn't know the v8 was considered tiny..   was told it would be a great fit for me..  I told inmotion i plane on riding it hard, dropping stairs etc..  I had nothing to reference it to at the time..   Now i know.. thats what im pissed about..  if they suggested the bigger model.. I would have gotten it!   maybe they have no idea what size 13 shoes 6 foot 5 up in the air pushing 250 will do.   do all their testers weight 160 pounds lol.. 

 

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i weight 245 with shoes on..   I talked with inmotion in person.. they called me back from the customer service number.   I have the call recorded.  This is not the retailer's fault.. its INMOTION USA.   I record all calls FYI  .  not being sneaky, but now i feel like pulling it up and posting it here.. 

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3 hours ago, kasenutty said:

That Last Mile SF company doesn't give any kind of warranty to return it? 

Its not their fault!   I got advice directly from INMOTION usa..  they barely make 100 bucks profit on them after the discount they hooked me up with..  I could dispute with my Credit card, but the shop would have to eat it..  NOT cool.   All I asked inmotion to do was offer me a dent a scratch or demo model. I'll pay the upgrade difference in MSRP.   

 

 

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TO GIVE credit.. here is an email with Joseph..  starts below this line..   Still wish they said, "sure, send yours in and we will upgrade you for 500 bucks.  I would have done that..  Still would-- havn't done the math..   I have not contacted the local shop i purchaced from..  Want them to stay in buisness for others-- They might hook it up, but i'm not about taking skinny profit margins and making owner eat it.. they keep getting broken into anyways.  Doubt they have profited from their elec stuff yet..  they are mainly a kiteboarding shop in san francisco 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Invoice has been sent. Just check our stock and we are currently sold out of outer shell side A.

Hills does not usually affect the motor but hurts the control board or wires. These motors are pretty indestructible.

Sorry we misinformed you on the phone. I will look into it and correct any misinformation being spread. 


Joseph

contact@myinmotion.com

InMotion USA
myinmotion.com
{#HS:783229018-4858#} 2183174339
cleardot.gif
 
 
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:17 PM PST, Kevin Graehl <kevingraehl@gmail.com> wrote:
The top skins were what I was referring to.. I know the inner composite shell is a bitch😊 will my local dealer be able to order the sides (the big circle dishes) and the top skins that screw on ?



So if you send me an invoice……. MSRP?



And FYI when I talked to you guys on the phone prior to buying I specified my weight and height and was told there was sufficient reserve power. In hindsight I would have 100 percent gotten a v10… all my crashes have been on flat ground.. Im very safe with uphills. I know that will tax the motor the most


 
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:07 PM PST, InMotion USA <contact@myinmotion.com> wrote:
We do have side and top plastic covers that cheap to replace. The inner shell is a difficult job to replace, but everything outside is pop on. Similar to change plastics on a dirt bike. Makes it look new again without much effort. 

Joseph

contact@myinmotion.com

InMotion USA
myinmotion.com 
 
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:04 PM PST, InMotion USA <contact@myinmotion.com> wrote:
Hello Kevin,

Our prices are firm mainly due to a 25% tariff increase and ultimately making sure every customers has a fair opportunity when in need of a warranty repair. 

I think you may still be misinformed about your weight and height and how it affects power performance and safety. The faster you go, the more unsafe it is due to a limited amount of power delivery the V8 can put out. It is sufficient for any circumstance, however going past the safe zone its all in your hands what the outcome is. Adding weight makes it more unsafe. Adding height even more unsafe. Riding low battery, flat tire, hills...etc all take away power. Now adding up all your variables, you shouldn't ever ride full speed on a V8. Just food for thought, and safety is always top of our list.

Let me know if you want to purchase a V10 and I can send an invoice directly to your email.
Take care

Joseph

contact@myinmotion.com

InMotion USA
myinmotion.com 
 
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 11:04 AM PST, Kevin Graehl <kevingraehl@gmail.com> wrote:
Offer a discount? Mine is all fucked up cosmetically , and only had under 2 months from all the full speed faceplants! I'll hope to get 450 bucks out of it.. or do you have side and top covers for it for cheap? I think a v10 is in order.. I asked poignantly over the phone if my height and weight would be alright in san Francisco.. Clearly you guys need to be a little more open.. I don't fell safe on this model anymore.. I know you don't want to loose money/ time/ etc.. I'll work with you in the middle..


 
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 10:09 AM PST, InMotion USA <contact@myinmotion.com> wrote:
Hello Kevin,

Our repair process is actually fairly easy for the customer. As its stated in a previous email, we take care of basically all logistics. All you have to do is print the label and attach it to the box. Shipping would be ~$25 each way. When its repaired, you receive a final invoice and we ship it back.

We do not have any demo/refurbished V10 available. If you purchase a new one, we offer a 1 year warranty. I have been riding my V10 everyday and love it. LINK: https://www.myinmotion.com/products/inmotion-v10-electric-unicycle




Joseph

contact@myinmotion.com

InMotion USA
myinmotion.com 
 
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 9:23 PM PST, Kevin Graehl <kevingraehl@gmail.com> wrote:
It's a logistics nightmare and a waste of money to send it in for you and the world, I'm thinking I should cut my losses sell it and upgrade, I do live in the hills of San Francisco, you got a demo unit you want to sell of a V10, or is there a larger one.? The axles on tight, all the connectors on the speak until unit are just fine. I have a ee background so I know all about brushless motors, used to make my own in college Delta and wye etc...


 
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 5:32 PM PST, InMotion USA <contact@myinmotion.com> wrote:
Hello Kevin,

Yes, I would agree with you that you are riding the feathering the limit not only by weight, but also wind resistance. Full speed means it has less power than it does when accelerating (opposite of what we would think of gasoline motor vehicles). Google search torque curve on BLDC motors. It will explain more.

Your situation sounds like it can be an either/or situation. Either you are maxim out the power and its barely able to keep up, or you have a loose axle/shell/circuit board. What you can do is check the tires PSI and test for any loose areas. Usually quick random jerky behavior is not a sign of something is failing but more of something is loose and the wheel cannot calibrate.

Hope this helps and let me know if you want to ship it in for service. 

Joseph

contact@myinmotion.com

InMotion USA
myinmotion.com 
 
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 12:47 PM PST, Kevin Graehl <kevingraehl@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe my 235 pounds is too much for it.. I've faceplanted 4 times now.. at full speed.. on flat ground.. I'm 6 foot 5. Maybe my fulcrum is too high? Scared to ride it now.. does this wobble thing around full speed.. I love it , just lost all confidence in it..



Also.. why when going 13-18 mph downhills, hit a bump… it goes nuts and rocks back and forth at a rate of 3-6 times a second +/- 4 degrees.. That freaks me out.. Is the v10 better suited for me>? 415 341 2281 I purchaced at last mile sf in SF byw.. call me?


 
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 12:05 PM PST, InMotion USA <contact@myinmotion.com> wrote:
Hello Kevin,

Would you like to send your wheel in for service? Our 2019 repair process is as follows:

1. Prepaid label will be sent via email to ship products to InMotion USA in San Diego, CA. 
2. Upon arrival, the product will go through a series of diagnostic tests. Information will be relayed to you and you can weigh the options.
3. Invoice will be sent via email for parts, labor and shipping costs. If it classifies under warranty repair, parts and labor will be free of charge and you will only be charged for shipping per our Warranty and Return policy.
4. Once invoice is completed, the repaired product will be shipped back

Let me know and take care

Joseph

contact@myinmotion.com

InMotion USA
myinmotion.com 
 
 
 
 
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there are two options either the wheel is faulty, as its not normal for any remotely modern wheel to cut out over any bumps unless youre very heavy and riding on super low battery, doing something stupid.. or two, you are just too heavy for the v8 to reliably hold you up when under stress.. you mentiond 245 lbs somewhere, the v8 has a max recommended of 220, and max of 240 as listed for the rider weight.. so youre really pushing it, i suspect if you were already going top speed and then nailed a bump, it simply doesnt have the power to make up for it.. the v8 is by no means a powerful wheel with only an 800 watt motor and 480 wh battery.. the standard now is at least double both of those. i am leaning towards you just being too heavy, as im half your weight, but have no problems getting my ninebot with its 500 W motor and 320 Wh battery to cut out if i want to, either from overspeed or overlean or going over a large bump.. on the rare occasions i ride it, i do so very gently (which is no fun at all) i would suggest you upgrade to the v10f, tesla, ks16s, or something similar if you want to continue to ride euc.. i can guarantee they would never cut out on you unless you were on 10% battery and really tried your hardest to make it cut out

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I learned to ride on a Ninebot E+, which is 500w to the V8 800w. I rode it at nearly constant tilt-back for 300 miles. It never cut off on me except one time going "up" my apartment's driveway with less than 10% battery. My riding weight is ~240 lbs. Do you ride pass tilt-back? I was going to upgrade to the V8 from my 9BE+ but Jason of eWheels warned me against it, even though it could have cost him a sale. I eventually up graded to an KS18L  .. from eWheels.:thumbup: 

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Could be be old unit sitting around.  V8 is an old wheel. Sitting around in a box for 3-4 years?  Battery probably bad.  

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Do you have WheelLog dumps of the crashes? There are loads of useful details to figure out what went wrong there, including tilt and roll angles which can be used to animate how your wheel behaved until the crash.

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm sure you realize this now, but at 250-pounds and 6'5", the only wheel that you should be on is a modern 18-inch model. Either a KS18XL or MSX. They have the power to safely move you around. And you want 1600wh of battery.

Curious, @Marty Backe (being a guy whose tried many wheels :-) )how much of that opinion do you attribute to wheel size? (Say KS comes out with that 16X with same 2000w/1600wh powerhouse... now what?) 

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6 minutes ago, Blueblade said:

Curious, @Marty Backe (being a guy whose tried many wheels :-) )how much of that opinion do you attribute to wheel size? (Say KS comes out with that 16X with same 2000w/1600wh powerhouse... now what?) 

For the weight, a powerful 16-inch wheel (like the 16X, ACM, etc) would be just fine. But he's tall guy, so I think the 18-inch form factor would fit his body better. And if it was me, I would not ride a wheel with less than 1600wh of energy for pure safety margin reasons.

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I recommend soft mode, does give better feedback of motor torque

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Get a bigger wheel and keep your v8 and ride it less aggressively and at lower speed ... its still a good wheel and ideal transport for short trips and as a backup. Maybe your wife/girlfriend or another family member could use it if they are much lighter than you. The larger wheels are pretty heavy compared to a v8, which is a nice little unit if you keep within its limits.

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