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Nick McCutcheon

Using a 24mm Max Axess socket to tighten ACM2 axle nuts?

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15 minutes ago, Flying W said:

I do have a loose magnet, and I do have a growling wheel when trolleying too :rolleyes:

I can safely rule this one out, I made sure they were tight a couple hundred miles ago when I replaced the board. 

I am beginning to think my 16s axle is a little loose too but not by much. It has a little growl too, but also feels like there is more "play" on med when rocking the wheel back and forth.

The 16s has around 1100 miles on it and the mcm5 has around 600 miles. 

 

Loose axle nuts give the symptom of extra 'play' in the pedals. Vibration is usually from the control board. Guess you'll find out when you open the wheel.

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Posted (edited)

Well, it turns out I still have to split the shell. The nut hole for the ACM2 is the same size as the ACM, even though the nut is bigger. So this little trick may have worked on the ACMs+, but unfortunately not here. At least I have the tool available. I’m off to go find some thermal paste, and then I’ll report back my results. 

Update: I split the shell. The hangers/nuts don’t appear to be loose, which concerns me. Also, the shims appear to be the MSuper type (not the monster type), which l thought were supposed to resist deforming. I have to leave my maker space for the night, so I’ll come back in the morning. It will be a challenge to loosen/tighten these, I can already tell...

 

20190323_230819_HDR~2.jpg

Edited by Nick McCutcheon
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Posted (edited)

So, the shims on the non-wire side appear to be in perfect condition. The spacer was barely even held on to the hanger, and it has some play in it, even though it appears to not be damaged at all. I think it’s just meant to be a spacer and not much else... Also I don’t know what it’s made of, but my drill press can’t even make a dent in it. So I guess it’ll just remain a spacer. 

It’s the same story on the wire side. Perfect shims, nothing appears wrong except the seemingly pointless spacer. I am really worried that it’ll have play when I put it back together, and I don’t even know what the cause is.

20190324_100624_HDR.jpg

Edited by Nick McCutcheon

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1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

So, the shims on the non-wire side appear to be in perfect condition. The spacer was barely even held on to the hanger, and it has some play in it, even though it appears to not be damaged at all. I think it’s just meant to be a spacer and not much else... Also I don’t know what it’s made of, but my drill press can’t even make a dent in it. So I guess it’ll just remain a spacer. 

It’s the same story on the wire side. Perfect shims, nothing appears wrong except the seemingly pointless spacer. I am really worried that it’ll have play when I put it back together, and I don’t even know what the cause is.

304995016_20190323_230819_HDR2.thumb.jpg

Pointless spacers???  They are critical to the hangers, and must not be loose. You can see from your picture how they wedge and press against the shaft as you tighten the nut. If they are loose, that's a problem for sure.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Pointless spacers???  They are critical to the hangers, and must not be loose. You can see from your picture how they wedge and press against the shaft as you tighten the nut. If they are loose, that's a problem for sure.

Hmm. By spacer I meant the plate between the hanger and the motor. The two shims on each side seemed to be in perfect shape. I can’t see a way to firmly attach the spacer to the hanger, as it can’t be screwed on (I’d need better drill bits or something to even start to make a hole in this metal). Even if I did, it still has some play (despite not looking damaged at all) as shown here: https://vimeo.com/326196422

Also, I just put it back together, and the play is still there. I torqued those suckers down tight! I even used a pipe to extend my leverage on the ratchet.

You said there was still a bit of play in your monster even after new shims and a tightening, right? Where do you think that play is coming from? It might be a similar case for me. 

Edited by Nick McCutcheon

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

Hmm. By spacer I meant the plate between the hanger and the motor. The two shims on each side seemed to be in perfect shape. I can’t see a way to firmly attach the spacer to the hanger, as it can’t be screwed on (I’d need better drill bits or something to even start to make a hole in this metal). Even if I did, it still has some play (despite not looking damaged at all) as shown here: https://vimeo.com/326196422

Also, I just put it back together, and the play is still there. I torqued those suckers down tight! I even used a pipe to extend my leverage on the ratchet.

You said there was still a bit of play in your monster even after new shims and a tightening, right? Where do you think that play is coming from? It might be a similar case for me. 

Ah, OK. Yeah, the worthless spacer the isn't screwed to the pedal hangers. I'm totally with you.

If you think about how these wheels are made (simple from a mechanical perspective), the only remaining possible cause is inside the motor. And there I have no experience. If @Rehab1 reads this he might be able to offer insight since he has fully taken apart the ACM motor. Dan, the question: is there some mechanical part/fitting inside the motor that could cause the axle to slip slightly, resulting in the back and forth "play" that Nick, myself, and probably countless others have experienced?

You know, I have my ACM motor with the broken axle. Maybe I'll take off the motor covers and see for myself what's going on in there.

Here's a video from Dan. Unfortunately he filmed it with a super low-res camera so you can't see how the axle is connected to the motor. Dan, do you recall if it's welded? If not, is it a mechanical joint that can get loose?

If it is not welded and can get loose, it still might be too difficult of a repair. Time to buy a new motor :furious:

 

Edited by Marty Backe
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Ah, OK. Yeah, the worthless spacer the isn't screwed to the pedal hangers. I'm totally with you.

If you think about how these wheels are made (simple from a mechanical perspective), the only remaining possible cause is inside the motor. And there I have no experience. If @Rehab1 reads this he might be able to offer insight since he has fully taken apart the ACM motor. Dan, the question: is there some mechanical part/fitting inside the motor that could cause the axle to slip slightly, resulting in the back and forth "play" that Nick, myself, and probably countless others have experienced?

You know, I have my ACM motor with the broken axle. Maybe I'll take off the motor covers and for myself what's going on in there.

Here's a video from Dan. Unfortunately he filmed it with a super low-res camera so you can't see how the axle is connected to the motor. Dan, do you recall if it's welded? If not, is it a mechanical joint that can get loose?

 

Interesting. Since you still have play in your monster maybe it’s just a Gotway motor problem, as I can’t imagine these motors are made too differently from wheel to wheel. There’s only so much you can change.

It’s possible I didn’t tighten them enough, but those nuts were super tough to undo in the first place (I needed the pipe). I stopped tightening them when I heard cracking noises from my table, at which point I was already nearly at my limit with the pipe on the ratchet. Besides, even though I have an extra motor, it would suck to snap an axle by overtightening the nuts. 

At least I gained some knowledge in the process. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I just saw your edit about getting a new motor. I don’t have my extra motor with me at the moment, but it might be worth it to swap them out and see if the play goes away (if I get too fed up with the play/if it gets worse). 

Edited by Nick McCutcheon
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2 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

Interesting. Since you still have play in your monster maybe it’s just a Gotway motor problem, as I can’t imagine these motors are made too differently from wheel to wheel. There’s only so much you can change.

It’s possible I didn’t tighten them enough, but those nuts were super tough to undo in the first place (I needed the pipe). I stopped tightening them when I heard cracking noises from my table, at which point I was already nearly at my limit with the pipe on the ratchet. Besides, even though I have an extra motor, it would suck to snap an axle by overtightening the nuts. 

At least I gained some knowledge in the process. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Yeah, we need some people who have motor expertise to chime in here. You are right in worrying about overtightening the nut.

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3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Ah, OK. Yeah, the worthless spacer the isn't screwed to the pedal hangers. I'm totally with you.

If you think about how these wheels are made (simple from a mechanical perspective), the only remaining possible cause is inside the motor. And there I have no experience. If @Rehab1 reads this he might be able to offer insight since he has fully taken apart the ACM motor. Dan, the question: is there some mechanical part/fitting inside the motor that could cause the axle to slip slightly, resulting in the back and forth "play" that Nick, myself, and probably countless others have experienced?

You know, I have my ACM motor with the broken axle. Maybe I'll take off the motor covers and see for myself what's going on in there.

Here's a video from Dan. Unfortunately he filmed it with a super low-res camera so you can't see how the axle is connected to the motor. Dan, do you recall if it's welded? If not, is it a mechanical joint that can get loose?

If it is not welded and can get loose, it still might be too difficult of a repair. Time to buy a new motor :furious:

 

OMG... a blast from the past. :popcorn:   I just realized that you received my first slotted socket. I can’t believe I never fabricated one for myself throughout my entire ACM autopsy. :facepalm:

32518248527_3ba2a444b5_b.jpg

 

Ok...my 2 cents. The axle is pressed into the motor so if there’s any play you should be able to feel it while tightening the axle nuts.

My theory is:

1) The bearings have lost their tolerance and have play in them.

2) The 2 notches in the axle where the shims compress against have diminished in thickness from either wear or vibration causing excessive play no matter how much torque is applied to the nut. 

3) The inside of either one or both of the cast iron hangers has deformed from torquing the steel shims. Cast iron is much softer than the hardened shims and the casting could have splayed out from the shim’s downward force.

4) The permanent magnets in the rotor are becoming attenuated or loose causing the stator to drift or wobble inside the housing. You can see in video that there is play between the stator and rotor (without the housing covers attached). If any of magnets loose their force or have become dislodged from the rotor itself a loss of equilibrium will result and could cause a wobble. 

 

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