Nick McCutcheon Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Hi all, I've been noticing the axle nuts on my ACM2 becoming looser and looser. There's noticeable play when doing pendulums, and the wheel vibrates loudly while trolleying along at a certain low speed. I've decided to go ahead and tighten/threadlock them, but I can't find a 24mm slotted socket wrench like the one @Marty Backe had made for him. So, in my search, I came across this "max axess" 24mm socket, that claims to allow bolts (or in this case, motor cables) to pass through, making it appear ideal for tightening axle nuts. Those of you who have had experience tightening axle nuts, do you see any reason why this wouldn't work? I would get the accompanying 1/2" max axess ratchet as well of course, to use the socket with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I don't see why that wouldn't work. The only disadvantage is that you have to disconnect the motor and hall sensor cables. Threadlocker can't hurt, but don't expect that to be a savior. It's not always literally loosened nuts. What often happens is the shims get distorted which allows for the axle to move. So you tighten the nuts which applies more pressure against the shims. Sometimes they get so bad that you have to install new shims. Just an FYI. Hopefully in your case tightening will be all that's necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Welcome to the Gotway Nut Tightening Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 Just now, Marty Backe said: I don't see why that wouldn't work. The only disadvantage is that you have to disconnect the motor and hall sensor cables. I'd much rather do that than split the shell Even though it's not difficult to do it, I'm dreading my first tedious Gotway tire change... 2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Threadlocker can't hurt, but don't expect that to be a savior. It's not always literally loosened nuts. What often happens is the shims get distorted with allows for the axle to move. So you tighten the nuts which applies more pressure against the shims. Sometimes they get so bad that you have to install new shims. Just an FYI. Hopefully in your case tightening will be all that's necessary. I hope so too! I've found aliexpress links to replacement shims, but I'd have to wait a month for China shipping. And of course splitting the shell would be required. If it comes to that, I'd probably check with Jason first before getting them from China though. Thanks for the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Nick McCutcheon said: I hope so too! I've found aliexpress links to replacement shims, but I'd have to wait a month for China shipping. And of course splitting the shell would be required. If it comes to that, I'd probably check with Jason first before getting them from China though. Thanks for the advice! Some of the Monster guys here in NYC have shoved razor blades to fill the gap on their warped shim FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, houseofjob said: Some of the Monster guys here in NYC have shoved razor blades to fill the gap on their warped shim FYI. Interesting. Where exactly would you put them? I'm trying to picture it. But I did get 4 hours of sleep last night so I might be missing something obvious, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said: I'd much rather do that than split the shell Even though it's not difficult to do it, I'm dreading my first tedious Gotway tire change... I hope so too! I've found aliexpress links to replacement shims, but I'd have to wait a month for China shipping. And of course splitting the shell would be required. If it comes to that, I'd probably check with Jason first before getting them from China though. Thanks for the advice! If it comes down to needing new shims, I can probably help I'm not sure I understand your first paragraph. With either my slotted socket or your new socket, splitting the shell is not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: If it comes down to needing new shims, I can probably help I'm not sure I understand your first paragraph. With either my slotted socket or your new socket, splitting the shell is not necessary. Thanks, I'll keep that offer in mind! The ratchet/socket should arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week, so that'll be the time to see whether just a tightening will suffice. I was saying I'd rather buy this new socket than be forced to split the shell just to tighten the axle nuts, and that I am not looking forward to my first tire change (no way to avoid a split there). I just worded it badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Nick McCutcheon said: Thanks, I'll keep that offer in mind! The ratchet/socket should arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week, so that'll be the time to see whether just a tightening will suffice. I was saying I'd rather buy this new socket than be forced to split the shell just to tighten the axle nuts, and that I am not looking forward to my first tire change (no way to avoid a split there). I just worded it badly. Oh, OK. BTW, splitting the ACM shell is a piece of cake. Unfortunately I could do it in my sleep But I know, until you have, there's always FUD. But rest assured that there's nothing that you can potentially damage in the process. Good luck, and drop a line here when you're done, letting us know the outcome and how you faired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said: Interesting. Where exactly would you put them? I'm trying to picture it. But I did get 4 hours of sleep last night so I might be missing something obvious, haha. They would go on top of the shims I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Oh, OK. BTW, splitting the ACM shell is a piece of cake. Unfortunately I could do it in my sleep But I know, until you have, there's always FUD. But rest assured that there's nothing that you can potentially damage in the process. Good luck, and drop a line here when you're done, letting us know the outcome and how you faired. Well that's good to know. I'll be sure to! Also, I was just watching your ACM -> ACM2 conversion, and you talked about how all the new Gotway wheels have those steel metals plates which attach to the pedal hangers, that are designed to prevent the shims from wearing. How is it possible for the shims to still become deformed with these plates installed? Or do the plates deform with the shims? 2 minutes ago, houseofjob said: They would go on top of the shims I believe. Oh ok. If all else fails I'll look into that, thanks for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said: Well that's good to know. I'll be sure to! Also, I was just watching your ACM -> ACM2 conversion, and you talked about how all the new Gotway wheels have those steel metals plates which attach to the pedal hangers, that are designed to prevent the shims from wearing. How is it possible for the shims to still become deformed with these plates installed? Or do the plates deform with the shims? Oh ok. If all else fails I'll look into that, thanks for the heads up. Regarding the medal plates... I hate to say this, but I've seen two wheels where the metal plates were attached to the pedal hangers with what looks like some kind of adhesive. Adhesive allows items to creep (move when under pressure) I haven't taken apart all of my wheels, but at least the one I used in my conversion wheel was attached with screws. This is an example of one hand not knowing what the other is doing. Somebody at Gotway thought up the great idea of installing the plates, but the people in production are winging it Will be interested in hearing from you if your plates are installed with screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 33 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Regarding the medal plates... I hate to say this, but I've seen two wheels where the metal plates were attached to the pedal hangers with what looks like some kind of adhesive. Adhesive allows items to creep (move when under pressure) I haven't taken apart all of my wheels, but at least the one I used in my conversion wheel was attached with screws. This is an example of one hand not knowing what the other is doing. Somebody at Gotway thought up the great idea of installing the plates, but the people in production are winging it Will be interested in hearing from you if your plates are installed with screws. Wow, facepalm is right. Would I be able to tell without splitting the shell? It looks like they'd screw in separately (with different screws) on the back of the hanger, facing inwards towards the motor. Or if that's not the case, are they screwed in from the front somehow (long screws I guess)? Update: You can see the plates just by looking into the wheel well. Looks like there are no screws holding them in, yet there are still screw holes!! Why Gotway... And, unless the screws are somehow recessed, my Monster doesn't seem to have any screws holding the plates on either. Geez, do you think it would be worth it to split the shell just to screw these plates in? It sounds like that would solve the shim problem. Eh, I'll just wait until the tool comes in. If It turns out that tightening doesn't do the trick/if they come loose again, then I'll have to split the shell anyways to replace the shims. I'll properly attach the plates then. Also, it looks like it, but the shims are the same for the Monster and ACM2, right? If I end up getting shims, I'll probably get 2 sets, one for each wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 11 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: I've decided to go ahead and tighten/threadlock them, but I can't find a 24mm slotted socket wrench like the one @Marty Backe had made for him. @Marty Backe you should start loaning out the socket or I should make some more. If your worried about getting back the socket just charge a $1000 refundable deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Rehab1 said: @Marty Backe you should start loaning out the socket or I should make some more. If your worried about getting back the socket just charge a $1000 refundable deposit. I was prepared to provide it to him, but he was going down the path of getting his own and I suspect this won't be the only time he'll be tightening the axle. Gotway should supply the socket with every wheel they sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 What is the proper torque for axle bolts on these wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, Flying W said: What is the proper torque for axle bolts on these wheels? I wish we knew. If I were to guess, Gotway probably doesn't use a torque wrench, but I'm guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Flying W said: What is the proper torque for axle bolts on these wheels? I can’t remember the diameter of my old ACM axle but you can usually find charts that will provide torque specs. Torque for a 24mm (M24) bolt ( axle in this case) ranges from 865 -1395 nm. You then need to take into account that the axle/ shaft is hollow inside which diminishes the amount of torque that can be applied. If you stretch the axle/shaft too much by over torquing the nut you risk attenuating the material. Tight is tight in my book unless GW can elucidate on the exact torque specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Rehab1 said: You then need to take into account that the axle/ shaft is hollow inside which diminishes the amount of torque that can be applied. If you stretch the axle/shaft too much by over torquing the nut you risk attenuating the material. So (865 / magic number) * pleasingConstant should be the right amount of torque then. Yessss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Rehab1 said: I can’t remember the diameter of my old ACM axle but you can usually find charts that will provide torque specs. Torque for a 24mm (M24) bolt ( axle in this case) ranges from 865 -1395 nm. You then need to take into account that the axle/ shaft is hollow inside which diminishes the amount of torque that can be applied. If you stretch the axle/shaft too much by over torquing the nut you risk attenuating the material. Tight is tight in my book unless GW can elucidate on the exact torque specs. A 24 mm nut fits on a M16 axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Heyzeus said: So (865 / magic number) * pleasingConstant should be the right amount of torque then. Yessss. 6 hours ago, Dancer said: A 24 mm nut fits on a M16 axle. Good point Dancer. Best to measure the diameter of the axle but again take into consideration that the shaft is bored out. I stand by ‘tight is tight’. Like @Marty Backe stated “Gotway probably doesn’t use a torque wrench”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 So no Clymer manual for our wheels? I think my mcm5's axle bolt might be loosening. I have a vibration in my pedals that seems to be slowly getting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Flying W said: So no Clymer manual for our wheels? I think my mcm5's axle bolt might be loosening. I have a vibration in my pedals that seems to be slowly getting worse. If it’s just the pedals, a magnet may have come loose inside the pedal. You can tell this is the case if, when you tap on the pedal it rattles a bit, and it feels like something is moving around inside. It will be more of a high pitched/tinny rattle. But if the whole body makes a loud vibrating/growling noise when trolleying like mine does, it might be a nut issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 11 hours ago, Flying W said: So no Clymer manual for our wheels? I think my mcm5's axle bolt might be loosening. I have a vibration in my pedals that seems to be slowly getting worse. If it's a vibration there's a possibility that the control boards is slightly loose in the shell. Check each screw that holds the control board down and make sure they are tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 13 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: If it’s just the pedals, a magnet may have come loose inside the pedal. You can tell this is the case if, when you tap on the pedal it rattles a bit, and it feels like something is moving around inside. It will be more of a high pitched/tinny rattle. But if the whole body makes a loud vibrating/growling noise when trolleying like mine does, it might be a nut issue. I do have a loose magnet, and I do have a growling wheel when trolleying too 12 hours ago, Marty Backe said: If it's a vibration there's a possibility that the control boards is slightly loose in the shell. Check each screw that holds the control board down and make sure they are tight. I can safely rule this one out, I made sure they were tight a couple hundred miles ago when I replaced the board. I am beginning to think my 16s axle is a little loose too but not by much. It has a little growl too, but also feels like there is more "play" on med when rocking the wheel back and forth. The 16s has around 1100 miles on it and the mcm5 has around 600 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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