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Don't bother.

An EUC is vastly superior to a Onewheel, unless you count in subjective factors such as "feel".

Some things a Onewheel does better: cobblestones and bad surfaces. Because of the fatter tyre the wheel works a lot better as a suspension compared to our bicycle tyre EUC's.

 

I had a similar discussion recently. "EUC's are lame compared to a Onewheel". Then you mention the typical arguments about higher top speed, a much higher range, off roading where you can't even go with a Onewheel, no ground clearance issues etc etc. And the answer is "Yup I know. Still lame though".

Well, the discussion stops there. 

Face it, there are lots of people for whom if you don't have a "skateboard stance" you look like a complete idiot, hence it's lame, no matter what the specs. 

 

Then again, why bother going onto a Onewheel group and preaching the superiority of euc's? If people want to be ignorant, they will be ignorant. The open minded ones will probably try it anyway, because with these kinds of transportation devices you are bound to run into people that have the other type, and this kind of discussion will work much better face to face.

 

I love my Onewheel though. If it's just for riding around in my neighbourhood I prefer it to my EUC, because of the feel. If I want to go places or "ride" I take the EUC.

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47 minutes ago, photorph said:

 

@Mike Sacristan since you do some quality youtube videos, do a comparison of a onewheel and an EUC.  An objective comparison, hill climbing, off road riding capability, maneuverability, practicality, etc.  Post it on the onewheel reddit sub and facebook group.  I posted a written one on the onewheel owners group on facebook basically saying EUC have more capability than onewheel, and I had like 485 comments saying I'm crazy, EUCs are lame, and can't compete with onewheel.  

 

Thanks Photorph. Very nice of you to say that about my videos.
I sold my Onewheel a little over a month ago and it has now been replaced by the 16X.

I made a video a while back comparing some hill climbing between the Onewheel and my Ninebot One E+ which is a pretty old and cheap model and considered a toy by many. I posted the clip on reddit and even got some interesting comments like:

You should have tried it with more speed.
You should have put it on elevation mode.

I have read both of your comparisons and thought they were great and very well written. Onewheel does have quite a cult following though and for them it becomes a lifestyle bordering on religion. :efee612b4b: People identify a lot with their Onewheels and they get very defensive if "attacked". I read a lot of the comments but not all of them.

EUCs are lame, goofy looking, the riders aren't cool, you can't do tricks, can't go offroad, can't jump, can't grind, heavy, clumsy, etc... :clap3:

Compared to my MSX I loved the Onewheel because I only had two contact points while riding. My feet. Which allowed me more freedom of body movement. My MSX locks me into four contact points. My feet and my calves. The 16X does not so again I am just back to two contact points. My feet. MSX also growls and cogs quite aggressively while the 16X does not. So I get a similar floaty feeling on the 16X as on the Onewheel including the tramlining, crack following, lean following and sliding effect. With more speed and more range. And I can use the gyro effect to ride with my upper body sideways if I want to. :efee612b4b:   

 

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34 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Don't bother.

Well said!

34 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

An EUC is vastly superior to a Onewheel, unless you count in subjective factors such as "feel".

Also well said. And sure... you can put a price on feel. My wife is a dancer. All she does is feel. I'm a technician. All I do is analyse practicality. :efee612b4b:

34 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Some things a Onewheel does better: cobblestones and bad surfaces. Because of the fatter tyre the wheel works a lot better as a suspension compared to our bicycle tyre EUC's.

I don't know about that. My wife on the MSX would beg to differ. That fat rectangular tire likes staying perpendicular and makes it unpredictable.

34 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I had a similar discussion recently. "EUC's are lame compared to a Onewheel". Then you mention the typical arguments about higher top speed, a much higher range, off roading where you can't even go with a Onewheel, no ground clearance issues etc etc. And the answer is "Yup I know. Still lame though".

Well, the discussion stops there. 

Face it, there are lots of people for whom if you don't have a "skateboard stance" you look like a complete idiot, hence it's lame, no matter what the specs. 

Haha exactly. I think this is a segway thing. That's why I try to ride my EUC with flair. Gotta represent!

34 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Then again, why bother going onto a Onewheel group and preaching the superiority of euc's? If people want to be ignorant, they will be ignorant. The open minded ones will probably try it anyway, because with these kinds of transportation devices you are bound to run into people that have the other type, and this kind of discussion will work much better face to face.

It's because we want to save them! :roflmao:

34 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I love my Onewheel though. If it's just for riding around in my neighbourhood I prefer it to my EUC, because of the feel. If I want to go places or "ride" I take the EUC.

There ya go! I was going to meet some friends out by the water for some sun and fun and I was on the Onewheel. After some quick calculations I decided to take a 4km detour home to switch to the MSX as I was no longer riding for fun but now "going somewhere".

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Posted (edited)

Great discussion between you two because it's informing me as I sit here planning to sell my Pint...then re-considering...then planning to sell it...then re-thinking...no, I'm going to sell it...I'm a hot mess.

I like the EUC for multiple reasons but one is that I find it more predictable. I feel far more confident approaching varied NYC street terrain on that. 

Edited by Lillian

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14 hours ago, Lillian said:

Great discussion between you two because it's informing me as I sit here planning to sell my Pint...then re-considering...then planning to sell it...then re-thinking...no, I'm going to sell it...I'm a hot mess.

I like the EUC for multiple reasons but one is that I find it more predictable. I feel far more confident approaching varied NYC street terrain on that. 

Does the Pint bring you happiness? (in my case, yes)

Could you trade it for something else that would give you more happiness? (in my case, yes)

Does it do what you want it to do? (sort of, I wanted more speed and range)

Can it coexist with what you have (in my case, no, as I couldn't justify owning it)

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Posted (edited)

I’ve put about 25 miles on my Pint so far and have mixed feelings. While that’s nowhere near enough distance to make an informed opinion, I’ve made a few initial observations...

ATM, I completely agree with the “recreation vs transportation” argument regarding the Onewheel vs an EUC.

It seems the OW is more engaging to ride, which is to say it requires more thought and physical interaction. Maybe that changes as one becomes more experienced, but I doubt it. This is what (very subjectively) makes the OW more fun, but also less practical.

When I’m riding the OW, I get the sense it sometimes has a mind of its own. I don’t know if it’s road imperfections or what, but I’ll be cruising along when it just kinda starts mildly “wandering” under my feet. The sensation is disconcerting. I can’t tell if I’m doing something wrong or the wheel and software are just making minor corrections based on some surface conditions I can’t detect.

I really want to get more comfortable on the OW because I can understand the appeal, but I don’t see any way it would ever be a better commuting tool for SF city streets. When you add in the superior trolly mechanisms of modern EUC’s, there’s no comparison.

 

Edited by Zephyrzone

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1 hour ago, Zephyrzone said:

’ve put about 25 miles on my Pint so far and have mixed feelings. While that’s nowhere near enough distance to make an informed opinion, I’ve made a few initial observations...

You need at least 200-300 miles to get in tune with the wheel.  You eventually become one with it.  It’s a lot of fun!

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/30/2019 at 4:28 AM, Mike Sacristan said:

Does the Pint bring you happiness? (in my case, yes)

Could you trade it for something else that would give you more happiness? (in my case, yes)

Does it do what you want it to do? (sort of, I wanted more speed and range)

Can it coexist with what you have (in my case, no, as I couldn't justify owning it)

Great questions.

Does the Pint bring you happiness? (in my case, yes)

That's a no.

Could you trade it for something else that would give you more happiness? (in my case, yes)

Yes. I'd rather put the money toward a new EUC in the future.

Does it do what you want it to do? (sort of, I wanted more speed and range)

No. I wanted it to:

  • Ride slow on the sidewalk while commuting. I thought I could idle on it but it's safer at faster speeds. 
  • Have more self-balancing stability. 
  • Be easier to control and less dangerous. 
  • Be the thing that's acceptable in places where the EUC is not.
  • Replace my e-skateboard because the OW can handle street irregularities better (I thought). 
  • Be less high maintenance. For basic safety people buy Hoosier tires, fangs and Kush foot pads. 
  • Feel the float like other new Pint owners on YouTube.

While waiting 5 months, I've gotten better on my EUC so the reward of learning something new doesn't outweigh the risk for me.

Can it coexist with what you have (in my case, no, as I couldn't justify owning it)

Yes. I have one EUC. One OW Pint. But if I am not riding the Pint, I can't justify it either. It's just that I waited so long I feel I will regret not giving it a real effort. But the fall I took ruined my desire. 

Edited by Lillian

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3 hours ago, photorph said:

You need at least 200-300 miles to get in tune with the wheel.  You eventually become one with it.  It’s a lot of fun!

 

 

You have a perfect environment for it. Beautiful Hoosier there. 

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On 8/31/2019 at 4:13 PM, Lillian said:

Great questions.

Does the Pint bring you happiness? (in my case, yes)

That's a no.

Could you trade it for something else that would give you more happiness? (in my case, yes)

Yes. I'd rather put the money toward a new EUC in the future.

Does it do what you want it to do? (sort of, I wanted more speed and range)

No. I wanted it to:

  • Ride slow on the sidewalk while commuting. I thought I could idle on it but it's safer at faster speeds. 
  • Have more self-balancing stability. 
  • Be easier to control and less dangerous. 
  • Be the thing that's acceptable in places where the EUC is not.
  • Replace my e-skateboard because the OW can handle street irregularities better (I thought). 
  • Be less high maintenance. For basic safety people buy Hoosier tires, fangs and Kush foot pads. 
  • Feel the float like other new Pint owners on YouTube.

While waiting 5 months, I've gotten better on my EUC so the reward of learning something new doesn't outweigh the risk for me.

Can it coexist with what you have (in my case, no, as I couldn't justify owning it)

Yes. I have one EUC. One OW Pint. But if I am not riding the Pint, I can't justify it either. It's just that I waited so long I feel I will regret not giving it a real effort. But the fall I took ruined my desire. 

You would get more speed and more range from an Mten3.

There is a float... and there is a float life. There is customisation for the Onewheels though I don't know about the Pint yet. It becomes a peer pressure fashion show thing. When in the end all we wanted was practicality, no/low maintenance, more speed and range.

An Mten3 weighs around 10kg. Can be put in a backpack or carried around easily,  smoke a Pint and have more range. And cost the same.

The fall is the fall though. If it's based on the fall then brush yourself off and force yourself to ride 10km every day. In this case treat yourself as you would any student to you. Getting back on is the most important part. Getting daily practice will make everything click.

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6 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

The fall is the fall though. If it's based on the fall then brush yourself off and force yourself to ride 10km every day. In this case treat yourself as you would any student to you. Getting back on is the most important part. Getting daily practice will make everything click.

Thanks, Mike. My issue with the fall is that I have never fallen off of anything else I'd ridden. I've lost my footing at most. The other machines didn't assist in a fall. 

The Pint is unstable, minimally self-balances and since the front foot sensor accelerates with foot pressure during an accidental fall, I find it dangerous. 

I'll stick to the V10 until I am more proficient on that then see what the PEV market has to offer. :)

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On 8/31/2019 at 4:13 PM, Lillian said:
  • Replace my e-skateboard because the OW can handle street irregularities better (I thought). 

Unless you have an all terrain skateboard, a OW is a lot more comfortable and safer over bad roads. I search for bad parts just to feel how it goes over them. My Boosted Mini X is teeth-shattering when the road is less than perfect (I am selling it now I have the OW)

On 8/31/2019 at 4:13 PM, Lillian said:
  • Be less high maintenance. For basic safety people buy Hoosier tires, fangs and Kush foot pads. 

Sorry, but that's nonsense / peer pressure. Hoosier tires give you either better off road grip (threaded) or a more nimble wheel (smaller width and rounder edges, so better carving), but IMO no beginner should make those mods as that tyre is more difficult to master and less stable at slow speeds. Those foot pads are not needed either as the OW rides perfectly without them.

Fangs are IMO also not needed, unless you want to ride without any sense of risk (which you won't since you have euc experience). Know the limits of the battery wrt wheel power, slopes, weight etc. It's exactly the same as euc cut-outs. Experienced EUC'ers take this into account. Also a OW is not a device for speed demons. Push it and you will get hurt. I stay below  15mph with mine, 90% of the time even 12mph as speed is not what it's about.

For me it's a device (like an mten3) that requires you to stay focussed while riding it. That's why for me it's a device that you use to have fun riding from A to A with your mind in OW-mode, and not something you take to mindlessly ride 10 miles from A to B in a straight line while thinking about the nice food you're going to eat at your destination. That's what an EUC does best. If you use it for transportation you'll end up pushing it faster and faster, until you crash. When I use mine I nearly never ride longer than 10 meters in a straight line with it.

 

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2 hours ago, Lillian said:

The Pint is unstable, minimally self-balances and since the front foot sensor accelerates with foot pressure during an accidental fall, I find it dangerous. 

The Pint is harder to ride than the XR because of the smaller tyre. That's of course not helping things. 

 

TBH if you are afraid of a device I think you should get rid of it. Doing something with fear will only increase the risk of injury.

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On 9/2/2019 at 3:28 PM, ir_fuel said:

The Pint is harder to ride than the XR because of the smaller tyre. That's of course not helping things. 

 

TBH if you are afraid of a device I think you should get rid of it. Doing something with fear will only increase the risk of injury.

I've sold it. Funny. I was nervous about all of my other PEVs but never fell off of any of them. It has nothing to do with me. 

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On 9/2/2019 at 3:26 PM, ir_fuel said:

Unless you have an all terrain skateboard, a OW is a lot more comfortable and safer over bad roads. I search for bad parts just to feel how it goes over them. My Boosted Mini X is teeth-shattering when the road is less than perfect (I am selling it now I have the OW)

Sorry, but that's nonsense / peer pressure. Hoosier tires give you either better off road grip (threaded) or a more nimble wheel (smaller width and rounder edges, so better carving), but IMO no beginner should make those mods as that tyre is more difficult to master and less stable at slow speeds. Those foot pads are not needed either as the OW rides perfectly without them.

Fangs are IMO also not needed, unless you want to ride without any sense of risk (which you won't since you have euc experience). Know the limits of the battery wrt wheel power, slopes, weight etc. It's exactly the same as euc cut-outs. Experienced EUC'ers take this into account. Also a OW is not a device for speed demons. Push it and you will get hurt. I stay below  15mph with mine, 90% of the time even 12mph as speed is not what it's about.

For me it's a device (like an mten3) that requires you to stay focussed while riding it. That's why for me it's a device that you use to have fun riding from A to A with your mind in OW-mode, and not something you take to mindlessly ride 10 miles from A to B in a straight line while thinking about the nice food you're going to eat at your destination. That's what an EUC does best. If you use it for transportation you'll end up pushing it faster and faster, until you crash. When I use mine I nearly never ride longer than 10 meters in a straight line with it.

 

I'm new to EUCs and this group so I appreciate you as well as everyone. Respectfully, I stand by my original position.

I look forward to what else Future Motion develops. I like their community and kudos to anyone who can ride them. 

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On 8/29/2019 at 10:01 AM, ir_fuel said:

Because of the fatter tyre the wheel works a lot better as a suspension compared to our bicycle tyre EUC's.

A tire with thick rubber walls and a wide (as opposed to large & high) tire is rather ineffective for suspension. For this reason, AFAIK, is the Ninebot Z rather uncomfortable and hard to ride suspension wise. A 3" or 4" highly flexible bicycle tire should give the best comfort for EUCs or Onewheels, AFAICS.

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11 minutes ago, Mono said:

A tire with thick rubber walls and a wide (as opposed to large & high) tire is rather ineffective for suspension.

Have you ever ridden a Onewheel on uneven terrain?

11 minutes ago, Mono said:

For this reason, AFAIK, is the Ninebot Z rather uncomfortable and hard to ride suspension wise. A 3" or 4" highly flexible bicycle tire should give the best comfort for EUCs or Onewheels, AFAICS.

That's because the Ninebot Z tire is tubeless and super stiff. I think you could even ride it completely deflated.

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1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

Have you ever ridden a Onewheel on uneven terrain?

No, but I have ridden EUCs in uneven terrains where the Onewheel would have been nose-stuck pretty much immediately :D

I can see just from the geometry that in some scenarios the wide tire will even out the terrain. And in some they will make it even worse.

Quote

That's because the Ninebot Z tire is tubeless and super stiff. I think you could even ride it completely deflated.

Right, thick rubber makes the tire stiffer in general and then there is variation in the tire material. I wouldn't be surprised if the Onewheel can be ridden completely deflated as well.

Edited by Mono

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1 hour ago, Mono said:

No, but I have ridden EUCs in uneven terrains where the Onewheel would have been nose-stuck pretty much immediately :D

I never said the Onewheel is the wheel to take into the forest. All the buzz about off-roading with a Onewheel is ridiculous imo. If you see videos it's always on large pathways or grass. An euc is tons better at off roading than a Onewheel.

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I can see just from the geometry that in some scenarios the wide tire will even out the terrain. And in some they will make it even worse.

It's just a smoother experience IMO, on paved but uneven terrain. It's also a low pressure wheel. 1.5 bar if I am not mistaken. The width also plays a role in that it absorbs more uneven surfaces because of the larger contact patch, where the EUC would be moving a lot more (tilting left-right on certain bumps). Of course for true of road this is a disadvantage as the wide tire would have you hit a lot more bumps and make them a lot harder to avoid.

1 hour ago, Mono said:

Right, thick rubber makes the tire stiffer in general and then there is variation in the tire material. 

Tube vs tubeless. 

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On 8/15/2019 at 5:33 AM, photorph said:

I could never stand still on an EUC

It's much easier on snow to (almost) standstill :rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I never said the Onewheel is the wheel to take into the forest. All the buzz about off-roading with a Onewheel is ridiculous imo. If you see videos it's always on large pathways or grass. An euc is tons better at off roading than a Onewheel.

Yes, I guess not everyone is aware of that. There is an interesting question in the relation to (off-road) motorcycling: is it the front wheel or the back wheel of the motorcycle which is better to compare with to the single wheel of EUCs and Onewheels? Front wheels of off-road bikes are quite large in diameter, but they are surprisingly thin (compared to road bikes).

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Just now, Mono said:

but they are surprisingly thin (compared to road bikes).

Same goes for the back wheel.

 

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2 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Same goes for the back wheel.

Maybe, though out of my head I have in mind that the difference between front and back width is more pronounced for off road tires.

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4 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Tube vs tubeless. 

Modern bicycle tires have pretty much all gone tubeless as well. That doesn't make them necessarily any stiffer.

 

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