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Newbie help please


Leyline

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Guest PogArt Artur
3 minutes ago, gena said:

I wouldn't bother with poles; you need to learn how to bail out when the wheel is not willing to cooperate. One of the first lessons people learn is to get off the wheel, see this video for example

Otherwise, as usual, baby steps is the way to go: a few (micro, milli) seconds with at least one foot on the wheel, then a good walk or rest, then maybe a few (micro, milli) seconds again, then rest, etc ... The first day I learned, I must have:

  • spent a whole day from 8am to 6pm dedicated to learning to ride my wheel
  • spent at most one or two cumulated hours effectively with one foot on it ( I tried to put two feet on it only the following day )
  • lost 1litre of sweat ( in a temperate weather with lots of shadow everywhere ) because of the tension and the sollicitation of new muscle groups
  • found the lamest excuse not to ride it ( "let's see if we can just walk alongside the wheel to that place over there", "let's go back home to drink", "let's wait for those people get passed first", etc ...)

By the end of that day, I was still unable to ride, but I was not afraid anymore. I "owned" the f..g wheel. 

It's very pointed comment gena ;)

I like those excuses !

It's like I could hear my own mind's voice , lol  ;)

I'm stuck to interior atm, the rain and strong wind is blocking me go out - is it excuse?

Lol  ;)

Tomorrow I have my first day off this week, lets hope I can go out for first time...

Thank you!

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5 minutes ago, PogArt Artur said:

It's very pointed comment gena ;)

I like those excuses !

It's like I could hear my own mind's voice , lol  ;)

I'm stuck to interior atm, the rain and strong wind is blocking me go out - is it excuse?

Lol  ;)

Tomorrow I have my first day off this week, lets hope I can go out for first time...

Thank you!

Yes, storms and cyclones are valid excuses :) good luck!

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All good advice, some of which I'll add to.

Pay close attention to your foot position on the E+ when learning to ride. I experienced wobbles like you at first until my body instinctively learned to place my feet correctly. Unfortunately, this may take several days or weeks, so until then, make a careful study of exactly where and how you place your feet. There are many posts and YouTube videos on this subject but they are not unanimous. It depends on your own center of gravity, the width of the tire, air pressure, and wheel (mass, tire size, etc.). What worked for me initially on the E+ was to dig my legs and feet as close to the wheel as possible grasping it firmly, while keeping my feet pointed parallel or slightly outward. Try to place your feet slightly forward on the pedal (60-40, 55-45) to minimize calf and foot strain (inevitable). You may also want to wear extra socks or even some padding on the inside of your ankles and lower calves. When mounting, be sure to hold onto a pole or fence every time to make sure you get the identical foot placement. That will help you build confidence and progress more quickly until it is no longer necessary. When you become confident and able to mount the wheel without using a support you can learn to hold the wheel more loosely.

Make sure you add griptape to the pedals as soon as you can. It's easy to do, inexpensive ($6.51 will cover 2-3 sets of pedals) and makes a huge difference. You will feel safer (eliminating concerns that you feet will slip off when leaning or turning, for example) and more reassured in controlling the wheel. The trade-off is that adjusting your foot position once in motion is hard as the tape is very grippy.

Tire pressure should be set to 40-45 psi, no higher at first. Check it daily. The E+ factory tire is only 1.95" in width, and it behaves much better in this range, assuming you are 200lbs or less. If too low, the sidewalls will flex too much and the wheel will feel bouncy on uneven terrain and sloppy. Lower pressure does reduce range, but you can add more air (max 50-55) when you are a seasoned rider. Btw, the tire is good for 2,500-3,000 miles (or more), so not to worry.

Don't limit the speed in the app. It's unnecessary and counterproductive. You will want - and need - to ride up to speed tiltback (14-15mph) as soon as you can. The E+ isn't a fast wheel but its speed is perfect for beginners, and it may be enough for your situation for quite a while.

Set the somatosensory level (ride firmness) to 3. Don't fool with it while you are learning until you have bonded with the wheel.

Always wear full safety gear: helmet (preferably full-face), wristguards (Demon double-side flexmeters are best), elbow pads and knee pads (hard shell recommended) at a minimum. Don't lull yourself into thinking the speed is too slow or you are tough or lucky, as you will be wrong. Wearing safety gear is like wearing a seatbelt in a car - you may not need it until you do, and then it will be too late. This site is filled with regrets, doctor bills, and foolish riders who learned their lessons and were honest enough to share their humility and change their ways. Others have just disappeared, never to be heard from again. You can and will crash (eventually), and neither jujitsu training nor your favorite divinity will save you from the inevitable.

The 320wh battery (assuming it's new) is good for 8-12 miles depending on weight and terrain (e.g. hills),  all the way down to battery tiltback at 20%. It's only a bit scary the first or second time you feel it, thereafter it's manageable. The wheel (and app) will alert you before it happens. The control board will reduce top speed below 50-60% to only 12-13 mph or so, but it's not drastic.

Congratulations on your choice. I hope you got a great deal on this still great beginner wheel.

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27 minutes ago, litewave said:

slightly outward

I agree with all you said except this one. See @seage thread "another foot position thread" on the subject.

It will work and is easier but...

If you are in this for the long haul and want to be a polivalent rider start with the proper foot. Pun intended.

Most Kingsong professional rider use this stance. There are some mighty good reasons, (If you want to progress) trust me. I will have to make a video about that.

 

1579538477_kingsongprofessional.thumb.jpg.27943b2272c73987a665d3815ac79908.jpg

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Guest PogArt Artur
58 minutes ago, litewave said:

All good advice, some of which I'll add to.

Pay close attention to your foot position on the E+ when learning to ride. I experienced wobbles like you at first until my body instinctively learned to place my feet correctly. Unfortunately, this may take several days or weeks, so until then, make a careful study of exactly where and how you place your feet. There are many posts and YouTube videos on this subject but they are not unanimous. It depends on your own center of gravity, the width of the tire, air pressure, and wheel (mass, tire size, etc.). What worked for me initially on the E+ was to dig my legs and feet as close to the wheel as possible grasping it firmly, while keeping my feet pointed parallel or slightly outward. Try to place your feet slightly forward on the pedal (60-40, 55-45) to minimize calf and foot strain (inevitable). You may also want to wear extra socks or even some padding on the inside of your ankles and lower calves. When mounting, be sure to hold onto a pole or fence every time to make sure you get the identical foot placement. That will help you build confidence and progress more quickly until it is no longer necessary. When you become confident and able to mount the wheel without using a support you can learn to hold the wheel more loosely.

Make sure you add griptape to the pedals as soon as you can. It's easy to do, inexpensive ($6.51 will cover 2-3 sets of pedals) and makes a huge difference. You will feel safer (eliminating concerns that you feet will slip off when leaning or turning, for example) and more reassured in controlling the wheel. The trade-off is that adjusting your foot position once in motion is hard as the tape is very grippy.

Tire pressure should be set to 40-45 psi, no higher at first. Check it daily. The E+ factory tire is only 1.95" in width, and it behaves much better in this range, assuming you are 200lbs or less. If too low, the sidewalls will flex too much and the wheel will feel bouncy on uneven terrain and sloppy. Lower pressure does reduce range, but you can add more air (max 50-55) when you are a seasoned rider. Btw, the tire is good for 2,500-3,000 miles (or more), so not to worry.

Don't limit the speed in the app. It's unnecessary and counterproductive. You will want - and need - to ride up to speed tiltback (14-15mph) as soon as you can. The E+ isn't a fast wheel but its speed is perfect for beginners, and it may be enough for your situation for quite a while.

Set the somatosensory level (ride firmness) to 3. Don't fool with it while you are learning until you have bonded with the wheel.

Always wear full safety gear: helmet (preferably full-face), wristguards (Demon double-side flexmeters are best), elbow pads and knee pads (hard shell recommended) at a minimum. Don't lull yourself into thinking the speed is too slow or you are tough or lucky, as you will be wrong. Wearing safety gear is like wearing a seatbelt in a car - you may not need it until you do, and then it will be too late. This site is filled with regrets, doctor bills, and foolish riders who learned their lessons and were honest enough to share their humility and change their ways. Others have just disappeared, never to be heard from again. You can and will crash (eventually), and neither jujitsu training nor your favorite divinity will save you from the inevitable.

The 320wh battery (assuming it's new) is good for 8-12 miles depending on weight and terrain (e.g. hills),  all the way down to battery tiltback at 20%. It's only a bit scary the first or second time you feel it, thereafter it's manageable. The wheel (and app) will alert you before it happens. The control board will reduce top speed below 50-60% to only 12-13 mph or so, but it's not drastic.

Congratulations on your choice. I hope you got a great deal on this still great beginner wheel.

Good lesson ;) !!!

Cheers for sharing  ;)

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  I didn't like the training in this video further up this thread, mainly because no one address why the student kept stepping over the wheel with her left leg when she came off (the reason was she didn't know how to ride, so what's the point in expending all that energy in back to back one foot launches).  She was very lucky the right pedal didn't skin the back of her left leg, or that she didn't twist her ankle.

But Having skimmed most of the video for brevity ( I do have a life), I was horrified to see at 48:45 this new rider:

a) on an Mten3 very fast, very sensitive, very small wheel.

b) She can barely steer but as she's turning to do a lap there is a plastic water bottle lying on it's side only feet from her path.  If she had hit that the Mten3 would probably have stopped dead.

c) Who goes to a perfectly flat and clear public area to practice and then leaves bulky trash lying about, completely defeating the flat/smooth benefit.There was no rhyme or reason why that bottle had to be there or why the other two did not recognize the danger or the trash aspect and pick it up.

Sometimes I just don't get people.  No wonder there's tens of thousand of tons of plastic poisoning the worlds oceans.

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3 hours ago, Smoother said:

  I didn't like the training in this video further up this thread, mainly because no one address why the student kept stepping over the wheel with her left leg when she came off (the reason was she didn't know how to ride, so what's the point in expending all that energy in back to back one foot launches).  She was very lucky the right pedal didn't skin the back of her left leg, or that she didn't twist her ankle.

But Having skimmed most of the video for brevity ( I do have a life), I was horrified to see at 48:45 this new rider:

a) on an Mten3 very fast, very sensitive, very small wheel.

b) She can barely steer but as she's turning to do a lap there is a plastic water bottle lying on it's side only feet from her path.  If she had hit that the Mten3 would probably have stopped dead.

c) Who goes to a perfectly flat and clear public area to practice and then leaves bulky trash lying about, completely defeating the flat/smooth benefit.There was no rhyme or reason why that bottle had to be there or why the other two did not recognize the danger or the trash aspect and pick it up.

Sometimes I just don't get people.  No wonder there's tens of thousand of tons of plastic poisoning the worlds oceans.

I wish I saw that video before I started learning to ride. Instead I had to discover, on my own, as a newbie, that I need to learn how to run off out of a situationAgreed, the instructor should have spent much more time dissecting how to do that properly. And cleaning up the training area :shock2:

 

 

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Guest PogArt Artur
5 hours ago, Smoother said:

  I didn't like the training in this video further up this thread, mainly because no one address why the student kept stepping over the wheel with her left leg when she came off (the reason was she didn't know how to ride, so what's the point in expending all that energy in back to back one foot launches).  She was very lucky the right pedal didn't skin the back of her left leg, or that she didn't twist her ankle.

But Having skimmed most of the video for brevity ( I do have a life), I was horrified to see at 48:45 this new rider:

a) on an Mten3 very fast, very sensitive, very small wheel.

b) She can barely steer but as she's turning to do a lap there is a plastic water bottle lying on it's side only feet from her path.  If she had hit that the Mten3 would probably have stopped dead.

c) Who goes to a perfectly flat and clear public area to practice and then leaves bulky trash lying about, completely defeating the flat/smooth benefit.There was no rhyme or reason why that bottle had to be there or why the other two did not recognize the danger or the trash aspect and pick it up.

Sometimes I just don't get people.  No wonder there's tens of thousand of tons of plastic poisoning the worlds oceans.

I totally agree regarding the rubbish left over.

Some people do feel for planet Earth, the other totally don't care.

There's no hope to make all the people to respect were we live...

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Guest PogArt Artur
1 hour ago, gena said:

I wish I saw that video before I started learning to ride. Instead I had to discover, on my own, as a newbie, that I need to learn how to run off out of a situationAgreed, the instructor should have spent much more time dissecting how to do that properly. And cleaning up the training area :shock2:

 

 

Gena..?

Is it you on that video?

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3 hours ago, gena said:

I wish I saw that video before I started learning to ride. Instead I had to discover, on my own, as a newbie, that I need to learn how to run off out of a situationAgreed, the instructor should have spent much more time dissecting how to do that properly. And cleaning up the training area :shock2:

There is some merit to the video, granted, but there are better videos, and some worse too.  Like, why does he insist the wheel be behind her when she starts? Makes no sense.  I think, when you take on the responsibility of teaching some you should explain that there are several different approaches to learning, explain some of the differences and explain why you have chosen your method. Ask ten forum members the best way to learn and you'll get 12 different answers.

I hand't used this forum before I bought my first wheel, it was all YouTube info for me, which included some training videos, I think.  Mostly it was "if those guys can do it so can I" videos.

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21 hours ago, Smoother said:

There is some merit to the video, granted, but there are better videos, and some worse too.  Like, why does he insist the wheel be behind her when she starts? Makes no sense.  I think, when you take on the responsibility of teaching some you should explain that there are several different approaches to learning, explain some of the differences and explain why you have chosen your method. Ask ten forum members the best way to learn and you'll get 12 different answers.

I hand't used this forum before I bought my first wheel, it was all YouTube info for me, which included some training videos, I think.  Mostly it was "if those guys can do it so can I" videos.

Same here, youtube was my only reference and guide. I wish there was an ultimate guide to euc riding :)

 

On 3/17/2019 at 7:44 AM, PogArt Artur said:

Gena..?

Is it you on that video?

No, I saw that video way later after I learned. I found it extraordinary that the trainee was able to ride after a few hours; I thought that would be inspirational and encourage new people to learn. The video that I used was Duf's 

I ended up learning to jump on the wheel by pushing it forward like a push scooter with one leg on then hopping the other leg, if that makes sense. A bit like in the first video above I think ( start the ride by having the wheel move forward from behind, as opposed to having it steady, jump, then lean to move forward ). Wrong technique overall? I hope after 6000km I will be able to re-learn the correct technique if someone can point me to the right direction.

 

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Guest PogArt Artur
4 minutes ago, gena said:

Same here, youtube was my only reference and guide. I wish there was an ultimate guide to euc riding :)

 

No, I saw that video way later after I learned. I found it extraordinary that the trainee was able to ride after a few hours; I thought that would be inspirational and encourage new people to learn. The video that I used was Duf's 

I ended up learning to jump on the wheel by pushing it forward like a push scooter with one leg on then hopping the other leg, if that makes sense. A bit like in the first video above I think ( start the ride by having the wheel move forward from behind, as opposed to having it steady, jump, then lean to move forward ). Wrong technique overall? I hope after 6000km I will be able to re-learn the correct technique if someone can point me to the right direction.

 

Thanks for answer.

This is the problem I'm at the moment - getting on the wheel.

Coming off seems to be easier, but I'm having hard time to stand on it...

I need to learn to keep one leg on the pedal, then jump on with the other one - and go, if that's making a sense.

The same technique when coming off the wheel.

This would be what I'm after.

I'm just imagine myself in public.

I wish I could do it smoothly, while stopping on traffic, between people, etc.

I know I've been practising three times only so far, and all the time in the kitchen/livingroom.., but I think that's my biggest problem atm ;)

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1 minute ago, PogArt Artur said:

Thanks for answer.

This is the problem I'm at the moment - getting on the wheel.

Coming off seems to be easier, but I'm having hard time to stand on it...

I need to learn to keep one leg on the pedal, then jump on with the other one - and go, if that's making a sense.

The same technique when coming off the wheel.

This would be what I'm after.

I'm just imagine myself in public.

I wish I could do it smoothly, while stopping on traffic, between people, etc.

I know I've been practising three times only so far, and all the time in the kitchen/livingroom.., but I think that's my biggest problem atm ;)

I suppose there are at least two schools: the ones who start to learn directly without a pole, fence, or wall, thus with one leg on the wheel then the other ( push scooter technique shall I say ?), and the ones who start with both legs on already ( fence technique? ). Ultimately you end up knowing to do both, but personally, I started with the push scooter technique then later found a fence to start with both feet on. It seems to me that starting from a fence ( or a friend's shoulder/hand etc ... ) is easier. What you are trying to do, in your kitchen, etc ... is the fence technique I suppose. I found this video before I learned, but had no fence available, so I ended up learning with the other technique:

By the way, if at all possible, avoid learning in a kitchen, etc ..., it's way easier to learn when you have a large space like a parking lot for example: you will be able to go faster ( easier on the balance ) and can look ahead ( you will go where your sight goes )

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Guest PogArt Artur
21 minutes ago, gena said:

I suppose there are at least two schools: the ones who start to learn directly without a pole, fence, or wall, thus with one leg on the wheel then the other ( push scooter technique shall I say ?), and the ones who start with both legs on already ( fence technique? ). Ultimately you end up knowing to do both, but personally, I started with the push scooter technique then later found a fence to start with both feet on. It seems to me that starting from a fence ( or a friend's shoulder/hand etc ... ) is easier. What you are trying to do, in your kitchen, etc ... is the fence technique I suppose. I found this video before I learned, but had no fence available, so I ended up learning with the other technique:

By the way, if at all possible, avoid learning in a kitchen, etc ..., it's way easier to learn when you have a large space like a parking lot for example: you will be able to go faster ( easier on the balance ) and can look ahead ( you will go where your sight goes )

 

Thanks for support  ;)

Yes, I saw this video, and I'm after to learn the way the below video shows ;)

You're right, in the kitchen I'm mostly ending up climbing the wheel with furniture support ;)

It's cold,windy and rain at the moment, so it's a good excuse to stay home  ;)

Obviously it's not the way to learn, it's just first steps everyone usually do in the house I guess?

By the way, I'm just figuring out where to go out...

Everywhere people, kids...

I wish I could avoid crowd of people around me  ;)

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8 hours ago, PogArt Artur said:

I wish I could avoid crowd of people around m;)

I learned to ride at a local school parking lot at 11-11:30pm over several days. No cars, no people, no animals. Just me and the tiny advancements that each felt like I had conquered the whole world.

Then again, my work didn’t start in the morning, so I understand this is not a viable option for many...

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Guest PogArt Artur
3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I learned to ride at a local school parking lot at 11-11:30pm over several days. No cars, no people, no animals. Just me and the tiny advancements that each felt like I had conquered the whole world.

Then again, my work didn’t start in the morning, so I understand this is not a viable option for many...

Good point and concept where to practice the very first steps on it.

Thank you!

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On 3/17/2019 at 11:18 AM, Smoother said:

Like, why does he insist the wheel be behind her when she starts? Makes no sense.

Why not?

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4 hours ago, Mono said:

Why not?

Because it serves no purpose. I must have started one-footed 1000 times and never have I felt the need to place the wheel behind the other leg.

There's also a real chance of whacking the other ankle with the pedal as the wheel comes forward.

There's also more of a chance you lose your balance, and drop the wheel. 

You'll also take up more space at a crowded cross walk. 

You could roll it into someone's shin standing behind you at the same crowded cross walk.

Pick one.

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I can’t do the start stop “no fence” training because the thing kills the side of my shin even with shinguards on due to my leg length / where the ninebot padding corners over.  

So I practice at work where we have some parking barricade pillars I can grab every 2 feet for about 12 feet in a row. 

I feel like I am doing myself a disservice because then I am reaching to the next pole and not balancing as much  

I admit I have been SERIOUSLY considering walking poles lol, I didn’t want to be ridiculed for it though.  I theorize that if I had 2 walking sticks I could slow / stop and tripod myself when I start to go into a turn I did not intend.  Since I’ve never seen anyone recommend this, I have avoided it. Now I want to try it just to see if maybe I could revolutionize euc learning!

 

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58 minutes ago, Leyline said:

I theorize that if I had 2 walking sticks I could slow / stop and tripod myself when I start to go into a turn I did not intend.

The main point of EUC riding is to compensate the unintended turns by steering the wheel, not stopping and resetting. That’s why the sticks aren’t considered purposeful. I do see that for the first 10 minutes or so the poles/sticks can be helpful as you don’t have to hop on/off all the time, but after that they’d be a disservice to your learning.

And since hopping on and off are crucial skills to be learned as well, why not learn them at the same time?

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7 hours ago, Leyline said:

So I practice at work where we have some parking barricade pillars I can grab every 2 feet for about 12 feet in a row. 

I feel like I am doing myself a disservice because then I am reaching to the next pole and not balancing as much  

Then don't grab EVERY post.  Miss every other one out, then when that becomes easy, miss out two.  Eventually you will be missing out all but the last one.  Soon after that, just sail right past the last one.  One can't fast track the training. Your body needs time to internalize the process.  For everyone it's different, and is dependent on multiple factors.  Don't compare yourself to anybody.  Put in the hours and the results will come. When it clicks you will wonder what all the fuss was about, but you can't "buy" a short cut to the click, unless you have an experienced rider, training you.

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7 hours ago, Smoother said:

Because it serves no purpose. I must have started one-footed 1000 times and never have I felt the need to place the wheel behind the other leg.

There's also a real chance of whacking the other ankle with the pedal as the wheel comes forward.

There's also more of a chance you lose your balance, and drop the wheel. 

You'll also take up more space at a crowded cross walk. 

You could roll it into someone's shin standing behind you at the same crowded cross walk.

Pick one.

My hunch though is that starting the wheel from behind does serve a purpose, even if you personally don't feel the need to do it. I have started using it sometimes for myself, but don't have a conclusion on whether it is "better" (yet). I don't quite see how you could know whether it is useful for beginners unless you have trained a few with and without using the technique and seen how it went.

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10 hours ago, Mono said:

My hunch though is that starting the wheel from behind does serve a purpose, even if you personally don't feel the need to do it. I have started using it sometimes for myself, but don't have a conclusion on whether it is "better" (yet). I don't quite see how you could know whether it is useful for beginners unless you have trained a few with and without using the technique and seen how it went.

My response to that has already been detailed in my previous posts, specifically the "it isn't necessary" part. So that is where I'll leave it.

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Guest PogArt Artur
13 hours ago, Leyline said:

I can’t do the start stop “no fence” training because the thing kills the side of my shin even with shinguards on due to my leg length / where the ninebot padding corners over.  

So I practice at work where we have some parking barricade pillars I can grab every 2 feet for about 12 feet in a row. 

I feel like I am doing myself a disservice because then I am reaching to the next pole and not balancing as much  

I admit I have been SERIOUSLY considering walking poles lol, I didn’t want to be ridiculed for it though.  I theorize that if I had 2 walking sticks I could slow / stop and tripod myself when I start to go into a turn I did not intend.  Since I’ve never seen anyone recommend this, I have avoided it. Now I want to try it just to see if maybe I could revolutionize euc learning!

 

I have poles but made for skirollers, not the walking ones.

They're very sturdy,durable and spring alike, so you can relay on their strength.

I don't know if the walking poles can be compared to mine at all, but I doubt they're as strong as the ones that I have.

I saw on facebook one man 82 year old with (probably) walking sticks and riding the EUC.

This is how I had the idea to try my poles when going out to learn.

For the same reason you've mentiined.

I haven't try it yet, but I'm considering to take the poles with me and try it, whether they may help or not at all  ;)

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Guest PogArt Artur
12 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The main point of EUC riding is to compensate the unintended turns by steering the wheel, not stopping and resetting. That’s why the sticks aren’t considered purposeful. I do see that for the first 10 minutes or so the poles/sticks can be helpful as you don’t have to hop on/off all the time, but after that they’d be a disservice to your learning.

And since hopping on and off are crucial skills to be learned as well, why not learn them at the same time?

Good point!

Thank you.

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