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Z10 BMS FW 1.1.7 - Vampire Drain

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Update: Both batteries back to 100% after a normal charge and the wheel is back to normal. I still see no option to update the BMS firmware though.

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2 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

Update: Both batteries back to 100% after a normal charge and the wheel is back to normal. I still see no option to update the BMS firmware though.

Isn't there an About screen, or something similar, that shows the firmware version.

Every time I've updated it's because I got an auto-update notification. Sorry, don't have my phone or wheel available to look.

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Battery 2 not communicating again. How do I get a BMS update. Can anyone tell me??

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17 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

Battery 2 not communicating again. How do I get a BMS update. Can anyone tell me??

All my firmware updates were either through a prompt that occurs when starting the app or by clicking the Update Firmware button. I assume that you have to have an Internet connection for any of this to work. That's all I've got.

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I'm thinking of checking the battery connections themselves. Maybe it's somehow loosened.

@Marty Backe update firmware just says firmware up to date.

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37 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

I'm thinking of checking the battery connections themselves. Maybe it's somehow loosened.

@Marty Backe update firmware just says firmware up to date.

But your firmware (control board and BMS) version numbers are not the latest?

Too bad there isn't a way to force an update.

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3 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

BMS is still at 1.2 @Marty Backe

I've heard sometimes you either have to have a Wi-Fi connecton on your phone or the other way around, only cell phone data, for the apps to connect to the home-base (China). Otherwise, I've got nothing :(

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Does anyone know if or where this board pictured can be bought?

Screenshot_20190420-164830.png

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On 4/6/2019 at 7:10 PM, Marty Backe said:

I've heard sometimes you either have to have a Wi-Fi connecton on your phone or the other way around, only cell phone data, for the apps to connect to the home-base (China). Otherwise, I've got nothing :(

I still use the bms firmware v1.1.2 and I noticed that I cannot update to 1.1.7 anymore. The update just disappeared from the app, though earlier it was appearing every  time I launched nb app. At certain point I updated the app to v. 4.5.7 (iOS), but I cannot say if the fw update disappeared after update or earlier. My z10 was produced during week 43 and came with fw 1.0.5 out of box. The bms update was appearing both on WiFi and 3G connection. Does still have a possibility to update the bms to 1.1.7? Is it possible that nb cancelled this update as it didn’t actually solve the issue of battery draining when the device is switched off?

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32 minutes ago, Mykhailo said:

I still use the bms firmware v1.1.2 and I noticed that I cannot update to 1.1.7 anymore. The update just disappeared from the app, though earlier it was appearing every  time I launched nb app. At certain point I updated the app to v. 4.5.7 (iOS), but I cannot say if the fw update disappeared after update or earlier. My z10 was produced during week 43 and came with fw 1.0.5 out of box. The bms update was appearing both on WiFi and 3G connection. Does still have a possibility to update the bms to 1.1.7? Is it possible that nb cancelled this update as it didn’t actually solve the issue of battery draining when the device is switched off?

I can say that I never noticed any behavior changes with any of the control or bms updates. So you can feel comforted in knowing that you're not missing out on anything.

My Z10 still drains the battery every day.

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55 minutes ago, Mykhailo said:

Is it possible that nb cancelled this update as it didn’t actually solve the issue of battery draining when the device is switched off?

I think NB cancelled the 1.1.7 update, as I've heard similar reports to your's, not being able to see the update.

FWIW, I agree with Marty, on feel, nothing noticeably special was added with this update IMHO. The major performance update was early on, around the launch of the production model Z10 I think.

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FWIW to all of you Z10 owners that should be concerning, I have never had any issues with anything on my Z10. I have never let it get below 20% charge at any point. I still have a battery that is not communicating at all. The battery still has a charge as tested with a volt meter but it simply isn't showing up in the BMS through Wheel log or the Ninebot App  There is no way to charge the battery though because the BMS will not recognize it. I have tried everything possible.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/24/2019 at 7:06 PM, Mykhailo said:

I still use the bms firmware v1.1.2 and I noticed that I cannot update to 1.1.7 anymore. The update just disappeared from the app, though earlier it was appearing every  time I launched nb app. At certain point I updated the app to v. 4.5.7 (iOS), but I cannot say if the fw update disappeared after update or earlier. My z10 was produced during week 43 and came with fw 1.0.5 out of box. The bms update was appearing both on WiFi and 3G connection. Does still have a possibility to update the bms to 1.1.7? Is it possible that nb cancelled this update as it didn’t actually solve the issue of battery draining when the device is switched off?

Maybe that there is a connection between the disappearing of the latest BMS Update and the "abnormal power supply (29)" bug wich stopped my wheel during the last days...? 

Z10 "abnormal power supply (29)" bug

Edited by TuN3M@N

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6 minutes ago, Filalapat said:

Since the standby drain tests released here last month, I've been trying to figure out exactly where this current is going to drain the battery during a few weeks, in order to create a fix.
So I used the same method of measurement over long periods of time to get a sufficient accuracy.
As a reminder, the previous measurements had shown a discharge rate of the battery by a ten factor when its terminals are completely disconnected, by all its ports. (voltage loss approx. 0.468mV/h)
In this state, only the BMS drains the battery and can be expected to completely empty it in more than 30 months. (3 to 4 months x10)
I tried to find out which of the battery connections induces most of this external drain.

 

With XT60 connectors connected  ; 2-pin and 4-pin connectors disconnected  :
After 14 days 5h 20', the average voltage of my batteries dropped by 0.175V
The voltage loss is 0.012V/day, so 0.513mV/h.
It is therefore clear that the battery drain is not caused by the power connectors, which opens the way to a easy fix to implement.

 

With XT60 connectors and the 4-pin charge connector connected  ; 2-pin battery communication connector disconnected  :
After 9 days exactly, the average voltage of my batteries dropped by 0.09V
The voltage loss is 0.01V/day, so 0.416mV/h.
The 4-pin connector (charging connector) does not induce current leakage either.

 

It is therefore easy to conclude that the external losses to the battery only flows through the 2-pin communication connector.

My graph has not changed much, it is just a little more precise (or not...):

C0.png.4277164d6af2b26ba62ac57da2045c0a.png

With these conclusions, I just implemented and test an electronic patch to reduce very strongly (by a 10 factor) this battery drain, which brings it back to an acceptable value. I post this in a new topic :


A one-electronic component solution to fix the drain of the One Z-series

Wow, fantastic sleuthing and very useful information :cheers:

I look forward to seeing your patch solution :popcorn:

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Posted (edited)

Nice to see that some serious engineering power is located in the group. Nice and simple to rebuild workaround. 

BUT are we really talking about a real life problem? From the battery view it is far better that it drains some mAh each day. Nothing is as evil as storing full powered batteries for a long time... So the solution to charge the wheel and put it charged in the storage all over winter time is by far the worst idea. 

If you worry about deep discharge and if you don't want to bother you family buy a wifi/programmable power socket and that's it... A 10USD solution. 

Edited by TuN3M@N

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On 4/4/2019 at 1:42 AM, Girth Brooks said:

I just had a battery issue (first of any issue) with my Z10 just now on lunch. Said "bad communication with battery 2". Battery one showed 78% and battery 2 showed 20% before not showing up at all. I luckily have my charger with me. I'm going to charge it and see if it persists. I have not updated the BMS firmware. I'm still on v1.1.2.

My Z10 has similar issues, where the left and right battery drains at different rates - or at least it think it does. Sometimes it equilizes after turning it off and on again. Anybody found a solution to this?

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On 4/3/2019 at 6:42 PM, Girth Brooks said:

I just had a battery issue (first of any issue) with my Z10 just now on lunch. Said "bad communication with battery 2". Battery one showed 78% and battery 2 showed 20% before not showing up at all. I luckily have my charger with me. I'm going to charge it and see if it persists. I have not updated the BMS firmware. I'm still on v1.1.2.

Seems this issue is becoming more and more common. After 1000km with my Z10 just experienced unbalanced batteries/cells alarm and wheel almost threw me off. Managed to update to BMS v1.1.7 (luckily update option popup was still active) and for the next few kms issue has not reproduced although as some have already mentioned, the problem reappears after time or after falling below certain battery percentage. Will follow up. Maybe it will be possible to pinpoint if it's really a battery cell problem (strange when this status changes constantly/fixed-unfixed???) or a connection issue, etc.

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Regarding the "lack of updates" issue, here's one thing I can suggest. Try taking your wheel (and phone) to a friends house or to a place like starbucks/mcdonalds where they have free wifi. Case in point, there might be a communication block between your ISP and the servers that host the update (this is a chinese company after all, sometimes data can have difficulties making it across their great internet wall so to speak).

 

I've aged quite a bit trying to update an expensive piece of equipment and after slamming the company to hell and back they went out of their way to "resolve the issue" only to tell me "We don't see your serial number making any attempts to connect to our update server". So I went to starbucks and sure enough it went through. A call to my ISP was useless since they just gave me the run around. It got so bad that the company actually changed it's update procedures to include the updates within the application since that would be pushed to devices via apple and google and not hosted on some server with a possible firewall somewhere in the middle.

 

Hope this helps.

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