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I am planning a 100 mile Dawn-to-Dusk ride this summer with a KS18L (not XL sob..sob). I will spend 6 hours charging. That means I must execute the right ratio of speed to time, or I won't make it. It will be very hard, early in the ride, with adrenaline flowing, to ride at an even, conservative pace. We shall see. 

I am sure there are others interested in doing extreme long distance rides. To be called a Extreme Long Distance ride (ELDR) for purposes of this thread, the ride has to be a minimum of 80 km continuous. You can stop  to charge, eat, relax, but you must complete the ride as part of one riding session. If one is doing a multiple day ride, one can slip below 80 km on a given day, but the average for the whole ride must equal 80 km/day.

The challenges for my ride is my riding weight of 109 kg, and that there are NO places to get partial/quick charges except at designated locations at the end of each leg and those will be full charges from 10% or so to 100%., taking a minimum of 3 hours with 5 amp charger. I am considering using a 5 amp charger and the regular 1.5 amp charger for a total of 6.5 amp charging. I think that would still be safe .. ?

Anyone can ride fast .. who can ride long?

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You give the same trophy to a guy that rides 80 km in one day, but take it away from the guy who only does 1,117 Km in 14 days because he didn't maintain an 80 km per day pace? You're a tough judge, Jerome :D

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We've done several ~50 mile group rides, I think @Marty Backe and the LA group also go that long on some of their rides. I've never done 100 miles in a day, but would love to try. 72 miles is my personal best but we pushed on well after dark.

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3 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

You give the same trophy to a guy that rides 80 km in one day, but take it away from the guy who only does 1,117 Km in 14 days because he didn't maintain an 80 km per day pace? You're a tough judge, Jerome :D

:lol: Yes, tough is there word. People Like Robert Ace, and many others on and off this forum fit your description.  As far as piling on the miles day-after-day they are "extraordinary"! This thread is not about who piles up the most miles, however, but who can do the extreme long ride. Marty and several of his riding buddies have .. who else?

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9 minutes ago, who_the said:

We've done several ~50 mile group rides, I think @Marty Backe and the LA group also go that long on some of their rides. I've never done 100 miles in a day, but would love to try. 72 miles is my personal best but we pushed on well after dark.

Cool Beans! I knew you guys did long rides, but I didn't know they were that long.:cheers:

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My max this summer was 52km with a Rockwheel GT16, without recharging.

80km is quite the ride with your weight. Mine is only 68kg (without gear) ... You might need a wheel with dual charge ports for faster charging (the Rockwheel has that).

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3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

My max this summer was 52km with a Rockwheel GT16, without recharging.

80km is quite the ride with your weight. Mine is only 68kg (without gear) ... You might need a wheel with dual charge ports for faster charging (the Rockwheel has that).

I ride a KS18L and it has dual charging ports. It is only a question of how high of a charge rate am I willing to go.:efee96588e:

Edited by Jerome
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I was quite worn out from 45km, my max, but that is 14"  in Paris, so quite a bit of cobble stone and curbs. If anything "knee wear" might be the only thing pushing me toward a 16".

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1 minute ago, Jerome said:

I first saw the EUC as a point A to B commuting vehicle. I use to pooh-pooh you insistence on the "Big Battery Pack Gotways". Give me 15 mile range and a big tire to smooth out the bad terrain and I thought I would be satisfied. Not! Now I am destroyed I didn't know a KS18XL was coming before getting the "L". I now covet bigger batteries, even 1600 wh doesn't seem like enough now. I have a maxi-scooter and two motorcycles and they just sit when the weather is good. All I want to ride is my wheel!:thumbup:

Welcome to the "Long Distance Club" :cheers:

I think Gotway missed an opportunity with the Nikola because there's clearly remaining space in that large shell to probably make a 2000wh plus wheel.

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1 minute ago, Mimolette said:

I was quite worn out from 45km, my max, but that is 14"  in Paris, so quite a bit of cobble stone and curbs. If anything "knee wear" might be the only thing pushing me toward a 16".

That's very impressive on a 14" wheel, especially with cobblestones on many streets!

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I think Gotway missed an opportunity with the Nikola because there's clearly remaining space in that large shell to probably make a 2000wh plus wheel.

I can't justify or afford another expensive wheel, BUT, I must admit if the Nikola had a 2000 wh or more battery, I would be staring at my credit cards looking for a sign.

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8 minutes ago, Jerome said:

That's very impressive on a 14" wheel, especially with cobblestones on many streets!

Thanks, it doesn't sound like much compared to everyones 100+km on large wheels, but it really felt the day after ^_^

Edited by Mimolette
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1 minute ago, Jerome said:

I can't justify or afford another expensive wheel, BUT, I must admit if the Nikola had a 2000 wh or more battery, I would be staring at my credit cards looking for a sign.

I agree. But I'm going to wait a couple more years before I get a new one. These wheels are advancing as a stunning rate and I can only imagine that by the summer of 2021 we will have 4 mwh or more battery with hot swap so you can carry an extra in your backpack.

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13 hours ago, Jerome said:

I first saw the EUC as a point A to B commuting vehicle. I use to pooh-pooh you insistence on the "Big Battery Pack Gotways". Give me 15 mile range and a big tire to smooth out the bad terrain and I thought I would be satisfied. Not! Now I am destroyed I didn't know a KS18XL was coming before getting the "L". I now covet bigger batteries, even 1600 wh doesn't seem like enough now. I have a maxi-scooter and two motorcycles and they just sit when the weather is good. All I want to ride is my wheel!:thumbup:

Don't worry. 500 Wh of additional capacity is a very useful addition, but it's not something without which you can't ride long distances. Having experience with riding long distanced on both KS-18L and KS-18XL I think that the most important thing is having a really fast charger. With 10 A charger you will be able to ride more on L during summer daytime than having 5 A charger and riding on XL.

In fact XL gives you max 40 km of additional range on initial charge. After you drain this energy, there is no advantage to having XL over L, both needs recharging and it is crucial to charge as fast as possible. Both wheels are rated at 10 A of max charging current.

Recently I bought a new, 10 A charger (http://ecitypower.com/c-series/25-c1000.html), which I modified a bit by:

  1. adding current regulation from 1 A to 10 A;
  2. adding charging port and detachable charging cables;
  3. adding measurement of charging parameters: voltage, current, power, charge in Wh and Ah, time and charger temperature;
  4. removing relay that disconnects charger from battery, thus preventing BMS from balancing.

I must admit that the new charger is really great. Weight and size is identical to my previous 6 A charger. Very good quality of workmanship as well as a modern and very energy-efficient electronic system. The measured efficiency at 2.5 A charge current is 95 %, which is a really good result. Standby power consumption is only 5 watts. And it stays cool even at full load :)

I've made a lot of photos when I was modding this charger and I plan to write an article this month about modification of this particular charger. It's quite easy if you have someone who is familiar with soldering :)

DSC03384.thumb.JPG.3901d2518a19312f0c3996a38c840de3.JPG

DSC03387.thumb.JPG.58a09727ced8dded175b5154b41327be.JPG

 

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Great information Seba!! If you charge at the maximum 10 ah, I can safely use a 5 ah and 1.5 amp charger and charge at 6.5 ah? I get what you are saying about the initial first charge being the only XL advantage. Please post your riding plans as the weather gets better and closer to your "Big" ride. I rather read/hear about your plans and actual ride experience than to watch TV lol!

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5 hours ago, Jerome said:

If you charge at the maximum 10 ah, I can safely use a 5 ah and 1.5 amp charger and charge at 6.5 ah?

Of course! :)

5 hours ago, Jerome said:

I get what you are saying about the initial first charge being the only XL advantage.

With my riding habits (speed, acceleration etc.) I get about 30 km more range with XL in regard to my old, good L. And with your 6.5 A chargers combination you'll get it within 90 minutes of charging. Having 10 A charger you could get it in less than hour. L is a great wheel and I use it most often. XL is great also, but slightly behind the L. It's superior only in having better range on single charge - period.

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Just now, ir_fuel said:

Aren't there limits to the amount of amps you can push in the wheel?

10 A is the safe limit of charging current for KS-18L/XL.

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4 minutes ago, Seba said:

10 A is the safe limit of charging current for KS-18L/XL.

I just did some calculations and without taking into account any limits from the BMS, you could go up to 12.3A I think.

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9 minutes ago, Seba said:

Of course! :)

With my riding habits (speed, acceleration etc.) I get about 30 km more range with XL in regard to my old, good L. And with your 6.5 A chargers combination you'll get it within 90 minutes of charging. Having 10 A charger you could get it in less than hour. L is a great wheel and I use it most often. XL is great also, but slightly behind the L. It's superior only in having better range on single charge - period.

Totally agree. I have said this myself numerous times. Just came back in from playing around on them both back-to-back.

Each time I play around with them my thoughts about each wheel are reconfirmed; the 18L is dynamically the better wheel in every way except range. I really hate to say that, because I love my XL.

I am finding more and more that when I want to play around in my neighborhood I grab my 18L. However my XL gives me a greater feeling of security, and when I want to go for ride I grab my XL; just in case.

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1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

I just did some calculations and without taking into account any limits from the BMS, you could go up to 12.3A I think.

Yes, but apparently the limiting part is not the battery itself nor BMS, but the wiring/controller board. As @tinawong stated some time ago, the 10 A limit is common to both L and XL. So it's smart to follow manufacturer advice and keep charging current at 10 A ;) It's still about 40 km of additional range within just one hour of charging.

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Just now, Seba said:

Yes, but apparently the limiting part is not the battery itself nor BMS, but the wiring/controller board. As @tinawong stated some time ago, the 10 A limit is common to both L and XL. So it's smart to follow manufacturer advice and keep charging current at 10 A ;) It's still about 40 km of additional range within just one hour of charging.

Oh absolutely. I was just going by the battery capacity. I have no idea what wire sizes are used inside the device.

Pushing 84V at 10A DC. That's already quite a bit of power. You can kill someone with that :D 

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6 hours ago, Seba said:

Don't worry. 500 Wh of additional capacity is a very useful addition, but it's not something without which you can't ride long distances. Having experience with riding long distanced on both KS-18L and KS-18XL I think that the most important thing is having a really fast charger. With 10 A charger you will be able to ride more on L during summer daytime than having 5 A charger and riding on XL.

In fact XL gives you max 40 km of additional range on initial charge. After you drain this energy, there is no advantage to having XL over L, both needs recharging and it is crucial to charge as fast as possible. Both wheels are rated at 10 A of max charging current.

Recently I bought a new, 10 A charger (http://ecitypower.com/c-series/25-c1000.html), which I modified a bit by:

  1. adding current regulation from 1 A to 10 A;
  2. adding charging port and detachable charging cables;
  3. adding measurement of charging parameters: voltage, current, power, charge in Wh and Ah, time and charger temperature;
  4. removing relay that disconnects charger from battery, thus preventing BMS from balancing.

I must admit that the new charger is really great. Weight and size is identical to my previous 6 A charger. Very good quality of workmanship as well as a modern and very energy-efficient electronic system. The measured efficiency at 2.5 A charge current is 95 %, which is a really good result. Standby power consumption is only 5 watts. And it stays cool even at full load :)

I've made a lot of photos when I was modding this charger and I plan to write an article this month about modification of this particular charger. It's quite easy if you have someone who is familiar with soldering :)

DSC03384.thumb.JPG.3901d2518a19312f0c3996a38c840de3.JPG

DSC03387.thumb.JPG.58a09727ced8dded175b5154b41327be.JPG

 

Nice. Looking forward to that DIY vid.

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