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MSuper X speed alarm setting


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Hi, everybody, I have a problem with the speed alarm in my MSX. It turns on at something like 35 km/h (22 mile/h). I downloaded the new android app from play store

1247170932_Gotwayapp.PNG.567dfb7986f3561ba60abcdb0a5efe63.PNG

which, on the contrary to the former one

285484989_Gotwayapp02.PNG.a54f8a093050c3b6bec8643e11281fb7.PNG

, did eventually connect to my wheel! :clap3: So, I set the "tilt back" at the maximum available for this setting speed, which was 48 km/h (30 mile/h). Then there were two additional settings: "First class alarm" and "Second class alarm". I assumed these may refer to the speed sound alarms since there were no other speed settings available, so I disabled them both. This, however, did not cancel the sound alarm, which still activates at about 35 km/h (22 mile/h). Can anybody explain how I can get rid of this sound alarm totally, please? And, by the way, what these first and second class alarms are, anyway...?

Edited by szaroczek
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The first and second alarms are just alarms to tell you the speed you've reached have you set your 3rd alarm  to your desired speed also turn the battery percentage so it doesn't activate the alarms

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1 hour ago, szaroczek said:

Hi, everybody, I have a problem with the speed alarm in my MSX. It turns on at something like 35 km/h (22 mile/h). I downloaded the new android app from play store

1247170932_Gotwayapp.PNG.567dfb7986f3561ba60abcdb0a5efe63.PNG

which, on the contrary to the former one

285484989_Gotwayapp02.PNG.a54f8a093050c3b6bec8643e11281fb7.PNG

, did eventually connect to my wheel! :clap3: So, I set the "tilt back" at the maximum available for this setting speed, which was 48 km/h (30 mile/h). Then there were two additional settings: "First class alarm" and "Second class alarm". I assumed these may refer to the speed sound alarms since there were no other speed settings available, so I disabled them both. This, however, did not cancel the sound alarm, which still activates at about 35 km/h (22 mile/h). Can anybody explain how I can get rid of this sound alarm totally, please? And, by the way, what these first and second class alarms are, anyway...?

The first and second alarms are just alarms to tell you the speed you've reached have you set your 3rd alarm  to your desired speed, also turn the battery percentage so it doesn't activate the alarms . When you mess with the alarms turn the wheel on and off after and maybe the app that's what i did and once set you no longer have to do it again

Edited by stephen
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How many beeps is the alarm you hear at 35kph? Make sure you don't abort it by slowing down.

Usually at 35 is the second alarm (3 beeps).

Try using the old Gotway app. Looks like the newer app still doesn't have any better functionality (tiltback still limited to 48) so it's not like you lose anything.

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=11932

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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Thank you, guys, for your clues. However:

On 3/5/2019 at 11:08 AM, stephen said:

When you mess with the alarms turn the wheel on and off after and maybe the app that's what i did and once set you no longer have to do it again

Turning on and off both the wheel as well as the app did not work for me; no changes were made... 

On 3/5/2019 at 11:44 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

How many beeps is the alarm you hear at 35kph? Make sure you don't abort it by slowing down.

The strange thing is, before I installed the app you were kind to sent me the link to, I used to get the speed alarm exactly at 35 km/h and as far as I remember it consisted of three beeps. Now, the reason I don't exactly remember is, once I installed your app the alarms changed automatically and now there are:

- one beep at the 30 km/h,

- two beeps at the 31 km/h,

- three beeps at the 32 km/h

(accuracy +/- 1 km/h)

The app connects to the wheel of course (the speed is shown once I ride, I can turn on and off the light with the app). Yet, whatever I click, like "Disable First Alarm", or "Disable Second Alarm", or "Open Alarms" I always receive "send a success" and... nothing else happens and nothing changes. When I click for example "Disable First Alarm" button I would of course expect to have the alarm disabled but also the function of the button switched to something like "Enable Fist Alarm"; nothing of the sort happens, the alarm is still there and the button keeps its original function and always says "Disable First Alarm"... :unsure:
 

 

 

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Guys, it finally worked out right! I just gave it one more try and did everything as you, stephen, instructed me to do and using the app meepmeepmayer send me the link to. i just did it slowly and carefully and eventually all the speed alarms were gone!!! :clap3: Thank you for the instructions and the app! :efef3d5527:

Edited by szaroczek
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Turning on the wheel doesn't change any settings, neither does connecting the official app. So that this changes nothing is perfectly normal.

The app is just the old/non-social official GW app from the Download section here. Marty kindly uploaded it. Nothing special about it. It should have the same exact functionality as the new social one in regards to wheel settings.

There is no one beep alarm, that must be an aborted speed alarm (you only heard one beep of it because you were only shortly over the limit).

There's 2 beeps (1st speed alarm, default 30kph), 3 beeps (2nd alarm default 35kph), and 5/infinite beeps (80% 3rd alarm).

You can reset the alarms by pressing "open all alarms" and then "default alarm".

Disabling the speed alarms, there's buttons for that.

By the way, all Gotway wheels can only receive commands, not send information about settings. This is why the app (or any app like Wheellog) can NOT show the current settings, it has no idea what they are! And so it can't react to that, like showing the speed limits or adapt a button.

It can only shout into the dark and hope the wheel heard it. You hear the wheel beep twice when it has received a command from the app to change something. But the app doesn't know! It might send "tiltback at 40kph" and the wheel beeps even if that setting is already set like this. (And whenever you hear these 2 beeps like when you're connecting an app, you know a setting was possibly changed, so be suspicious if it beeps like this without you intending it!)

As much as I dread new GW software and online firmware updates (so much they can fuck up there!), they really need some better tech there, if only so apps can receive settings info from the wheel. You can't even set tiltback higher than 48kph on wheels like the 100V Monster or MSX because that made sense as a crazy high number back in 2016. This is why the million year old and new app (even the newest one is like 2 years old) still work with GW's new wheels: they use the exact same tech like in 2016.

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On purchasing my longed-for MSX I was already kind'a aware, for Gotway wheels' performance there is a price to pay; now, exercising my glorious MSX I learn in more details what exactly this price is...  

Buy the way, what the real maximum speed of the 84V MSX on a hard, smooth, flat surface (asphalt, concrete), no wind, 90 kg weight (198 lb) is?

Edited by szaroczek
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12 hours ago, szaroczek said:

On purchasing my longed-for MSX I was already kind'a aware, for Gotway wheels' performance there is a price to pay; now, exercising my glorious MSX I learn in more details what exactly this price is..

:D

Worth it, though! One time nuisance, but long time joy!

12 hours ago, szaroczek said:

Buy the way, what the real maximum speed of the 84V MSX on a hard, smooth, flat surface (asphalt, concrete), no wind, 90 kg weight (198 lb) is?

Your max speed = whenever you hear the 80% alarm;)

I'd guess around 55kph. Only one way to find out (you can't do a lift test because then you hit the built-in  emergency overspeed thing first).

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Worth it, though! One time nuisance, but long time joy!

Agreed! :efef3d5527:

 

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

the 80% alarm

 

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

the built-in  emergency overspeed thing first

What are these actually? Could you precisely describe them when they get activated and what they warn about, what they perform, how they display or how they sound, what exactly they mean, please? I guess they have nothing to do with the generic speed limit alarms... And are there possibly any other kinds of alarms programmed in the MSX? What are they? Thank you for any information on these. 

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I can only extrapolate from my 84V ACM. Since the software and firmware tech is the same in the current wheels...

"3rd alarm"/80% alarm is 5 beeps (unless I'm mistaken). Same as the the 2 beeps "1st alarm" and 3 beeps "2nd alarm" speed alarms, but cannot be disabled. It should appear at 80% power draw or something. Not speed dependent (it was on the 67V wheels I think).

You hear it, you slow down, simple as that. It's your main (and only!) alarm now that you have disabled the two speed alarms and tiltback (which is another speed-dependent warning).

Then there's another alarm. At 50kph my ACM rapidly speeds up to 65kph and then switches off. It beeps constantly during that. That seems to be an overspeed alarm/behavior. I don't think it's the same as the 3rd alarm (80% alarm). Do a lift test (watch speed in app while lifting the wheel and tilting it to control it). Your MSX will probably do the same at 75kph or so.

Then there's the low battery alarms. 1 slow beep at 15%, 2 at 10%, 3 at 5% and heavy tiltback going to 0%.

If some of this sounds very vague, that's because we have no good, reliable info from Gotway. Just some spec sheets full of cryptic words and errors, we have to figure out the rest. Did you know your MSX's top speed is 20kph according to GW to comply with Chinese limitations?;) So that's the true answer: your top speed is 20kph because GW says so, and they must know best what is true! Right?:D

For you, since you disabled all optional alarms, it's simple: you hear any beep, you slow down. It was either the 80% alarm or low battery alarm.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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This is the same way I ride my MSX. Only the final beeps activated. If I hear a beep I slow down.
If I want to set some kind of other speed warning I use an app on my phone that will play an entirely different audio cue when I reach a certain speed.
In my case I set Darkness Bot to warn me at 30km/h.

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Thank you, guys, for this feedback, in particular because there are no any clear and explicit specs for their wheels from the Kebye available, indeed. By the way:

18 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

For you, since you disabled all optional alarms, it's simple: you hear any beep, you slow down. It was either the 80% alarm or low battery alarm.

Actually I have left the tilt-back alarm at 48 k/h (the max. possible to set up). I just don't usually go faster than 35 - 40 k/h so far, so would be happy to know once I got to that speed. At least for the time being... And that's good to know it is still relatively safe speed from the wheel power load perspective since you say the wheel turns off only at 65 k/h.

 

18 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

If I want to set some kind of other speed warning I use an app on my phone that will play an entirely different audio cue when I reach a certain speed.

Actually, what kind of app do you use for this purpose?

Edited by szaroczek
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On 3/8/2019 at 12:04 AM, szaroczek said:

Thank you, guys, for this feedback, in particular because there are no any clear and explicit specs for their wheels from the Kebye available, indeed. By the way:

Actually I have left the tilt-back alarm at 48 k/h (the max. possible to set up). I just don't usually go faster than 35 - 40 k/h so far, so would be happy to know once I got to that speed. At least for the time being... And that's good to know it is still relatively safe speed form the wheel power load perspective since you say the wheel turns off only at 65 k/h.

 

Actually, what kind of app do you use for this purpose?

I use Darkness Bot for IOS.

Edited by Mike Sacristan
fixed broken link
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Hmm I was under the impression that DarknessBot was for IOS only.

I clicked on your link and there are some reviews and feedback there so who knows!

I haven't tried WheelLog for Android but fro what i've read it seems to be better than DarknessBot.

No harm in trying I guess! Let me know how it goes!

 

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  • 5 months later...

Could someone here help me with the settings as I still don't understand specifics to the MSX.

 

In the Gotway app I can set:

alarm 1 on/off

alarm 2 on/off

Tiltback speed (currently max'd at 24km/h) ~=15 mph

 

I don't understand what speeds are set for alarm 1 and alarm 2.

 

In darknessbot I can set the maximum speed (which I set to 18mph for now).

So I see that others have set their tiltback speed to something higher.  I don't plan on doing this just now but would like to understand how/if you can do that.

I understand that if I turn off alarm 1&2 I will still get alarm 3 at 80% power whatever speed that happens to occur at (correct ?).

 

I'm using Apple iOS for my apps.

 

The info is so spotty on this so I really appreciate you help.  What I want to do is make damn sure that I have everything set to safe speeds and settings for now!!

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OK. Kinda figured out what was going on.  Old Gotway App vs new Gotway App has different settings.  Defo old Gotway ios app is better.

 

On Darknessbot does anyone use the Current alarm ? If so what is a sensible value to set ? 

Thanks.

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On 8/30/2019 at 1:42 AM, Gazza-usa said:

On Darknessbot does anyone use the Current alarm ? If so what is a sensible value to set ? 

Marty Backe has ended up using 90 A as a soft limit. He will not stay above that for more than a second or a few, and not continuously.

I checked my WheelLog graphs after one of my favourite trips that includes a few moderately short but extremely steep inclines. Crawling up the steepest I got 160A as a peak.

About the "80% alarm" on Gotway wheels: It's not based on wheel power, but a pre-programmed at roughly around 80% from the absolutely maximum speed. On the 84V MSX it is at 55km/h with 100% battery, and 45km/h at 10% battery.

Do not think that you can accelerate as fast as you can until you hear the beeps! The beeps are not interested in how you accelerate, so you could over-lean the wheel and crash without hearing a single beep. Never accelerate hard at high speeds!

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  • 4 months later...
On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 12:36 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

I can only extrapolate from my 84V ACM. Since the software and firmware tech is the same in the current wheels...

"3rd alarm"/80% alarm is 5 beeps (unless I'm mistaken). Same as the the 2 beeps "1st alarm" and 3 beeps "2nd alarm" speed alarms, but cannot be disabled. It should appear at 80% power draw or something. Not speed dependent (it was on the 67V wheels I think).

You hear it, you slow down, simple as that. It's your main (and only!) alarm now that you have disabled the two speed alarms and tiltback (which is another speed-dependent warning).

Then there's another alarm. At 50kph my ACM rapidly speeds up to 65kph and then switches off. It beeps constantly during that. That seems to be an overspeed alarm/behavior. I don't think it's the same as the 3rd alarm (80% alarm). Do a lift test (watch speed in app while lifting the wheel and tilting it to control it). Your MSX will probably do the same at 75kph or so.

Then there's the low battery alarms. 1 slow beep at 15%, 2 at 10%, 3 at 5% and heavy tiltback going to 0%.

If some of this sounds very vague, that's because we have no good, reliable info from Gotway. Just some spec sheets full of cryptic words and errors, we have to figure out the rest. Did you know your MSX's top speed is 20kph according to GW to comply with Chinese limitations?;) So that's the true answer: your top speed is 20kph because GW says so, and they must know best what is true! Right?:D

For you, since you disabled all optional alarms, it's simple: you hear any beep, you slow down. It was either the 80% alarm or low battery alarm.

Did we get any further with a definitive answer to the Gotway '80%' alarm? I have tried searching and some people say it is speed dependent (based on 80% of whatever the battery voltage is at the time) and some say it is purely current dependent.

Specifically, is the 3rd alarm based on speed or current? Or even a combination of the two?

This is for a 2019 MSX 84v for reference.

Yesterday, I was getting beeps at slightly different speeds. Some were heard at 30mph, some at 31mph. I can't tell you exactly what beep sequence as I believe I aborted (read: poo my pants) before hearing the full alarm. I am quite confident it wasn't an overspeed as the voltage was at least 80%. This was on flat ground too with no sudden demands.

After the run, I lifted the wheel and could hold it at 33mph with no beeps. At 34mph I got the 5 beeps. Which would be about right if the 3rd alarm is speed based on voltage.

So why did I hear beeps at around 31mph when riding??

Having looked at the Gotway beep codes, it wasn't the overtemp (I only hit a max of 32degC) nor overvoltage given I wasn't braking plus I was at 80% anyway.

The beeps I got do somewhat 'fit' with it being an overcurrent alarm but I am surprised given I wasn't accelerating hard (I literally creeped up 1mph at a time) nor was the surface prone to giving the wheel spiked current demands.

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35 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Did we get any further with a definitive answer to the Gotway '80%' alarm? I have tried searching and some people say it is speed dependent (based on 80% of whatever the battery voltage is at the time) and some say it is purely current dependent.

Specifically, is the 3rd alarm based on speed or current? Or even a combination of the two?

This is for a 2019 MSX 84v for reference.

Yesterday, I was getting beeps at slightly different speeds. Some were heard at 30mph, some at 31mph. I can't tell you exactly what beep sequence as I believe I aborted (read: poo my pants) before hearing the full alarm. I am quite confident it wasn't an overspeed as the voltage was at least 80%. This was on flat ground too with no sudden demands.

After the run, I lifted the wheel and could hold it at 33mph with no beeps. At 34mph I got the 5 beeps. Which would be about right if the 3rd alarm is speed based on voltage.

So why did I hear beeps at around 31mph when riding??

Having looked at the Gotway beep codes, it wasn't the overtemp (I only hit a max of 32degC) nor overvoltage given I wasn't braking plus I was at 80% anyway.

The beeps I got do somewhat 'fit' with it being an overcurrent alarm but I am surprised given I wasn't accelerating hard (I literally creeped up 1mph at a time) nor was the surface prone to giving the wheel spiked current demands.

I know this has been discussed many times on this forum and that we have made our own different answers. In the end though we have to extrapolate a little from our experiences.

It's not strictly a speed alarm and I see it as a "power availability" alarm. The amount of power remaining at a a certain speed will vary depending on battery level, wind, incline, surface, rider weight and even cold. So we have quite a few variables. The alarm is rather "dynamic" or perhaps better to call it variable so it's a pity we can't transfer it to an external device because it is one of the best alarms out there. Very hard to hear on the MSX though.

The beep sequence you got was the 5 beeps I am sure of that. I can ride out with a fresh battery and get 5 beeps at 53kmh so the whole 55/58kmh thing is a dream.
On windier days I can get the beeps at 51kmh. If I tuck down to break some wind resistance I can get 53kmh.
On a heavy acceleration to stop speed I can get the beeps at 48kmh because I am at a higher load by the time I reach high speed vs creeping up there 1kmh at a time.

Also I can agree that if this is the first time you are hitting the speed alarms that there is a bit of drama and uncertainty. 80% is quite a huge buffer though and you would still be able to push from 51kmh to 55kmh with no risk. Whether that leaves us at 85% or 88.0012% or 94% is hard to tell. The MSX can be pushed quite hard and if we get close to the 100% limit it won't just cut off entirely... we will just feel the pedals getting softer. But that would require speeds of 60kmh+ at above 50%. Even my friend who is 80kg got his MSX to 58kmh with no signs of protest. We can't do a flat calculation that 50kmh = 80% and therefore 62.5kmh = 100% because wind resistance will increase to twice that. So a more generous calculation towards our survival would be to add 10% speed available from beep speed. The problem then remains if it is beeping are we at 81% or 97%? Preferably we want the 20% power reserve although it is a huge buffer. On a known road with controlled conditions we can push accordingly.

At lowish battery below 40% though I would not push the wheel past the beeps. I did the other day though and did so while seated. So I was at 33% battery, seated and doing 48kmh. The wheel slightly oscillated back and forth so I slowed down. It stopped oscillating. Sped up again. Oscillated. So basically it was getting soft and no longer able to keep up with my demands.

The 16X behaves the exact same way but with soft tilt-back so it won't really let us push beyond that. We can try but then we will hit the 88% alarm and eventually hard tilt-back.

So in the end @Hansolo answered before me. :clap3: And his answer is correct.

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